Mold choice 50/90 Sharps

[Pappy 1]

I am looking for some advise on purchasing a casting mold for my Sharps rifle 50/90. I have read some books about reloading for the black power cartridge. Most of the silhouette shooters talk about getting a custom mold. My bore groves are .510. Most of the silhouette shooters talk about getting a bullet mold at .510. I have shot plenty with the .512 diameter through my sharps and it seems to function ok. Fouling is another matter. How do you determine how bad is your fouling? My seems bad enough. The barrel get very dirty very quick.

I have seen a lot of molds out there with the diameter of .512. This seems to be the norm for the big fifty. I just don't want to spend a lot of money for a custom mold and find out that it may not make much of a difference.

I am not sure if you can do this or not but if I ordered a mold at .512 and casted some bullets can a person size them down to .510. I saw a lee kit at this diameter.

Pappy

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I have a Paul Jones 650gn Creedmoor for mine and with a load of 105gn FG it shoots very accurately to 1300yds. For an unknown reason 1F gives a lot less fouling than finer grades. The PJ boolit also carries sufficient lube to coat that 34"barrel!

[country gent]

Talk to the custom mould makers. Send an e-mail describing rifle dimensions chamber and what you want to do with it. You will need to know atleast groove dia and bore dia. any throat in the chamber is helpfull to know also. I recently bought a Brooks mould and we e-mailed back and forth 2-3 times over several days asking/answering questions and getting details worked out. By e-mailing you give the maker the option of answering when he is free, remember at the custom shops the guy your talking to is probably turning handles on a machine or two also. In the tool room having to stop to answer the phone was a big pain to me and it is to them also. Ae-mail can be answered when he is finished with what hes doing or before the next set-up starts, at the start or end of the day. Or a secretary can ask your questions and forward his answers. Buffalo arms and several have bulletsavailable to load, try them and see what works then have your mould made accordingly.

[John Boy]

There is no need to purchase a 650gr 'artillery' bullet or have a custom mold made for the 50-90. Buy any of the 515 diameter 450 or 515gr bullet molds on the market, increase to powder charge to 90gr of Fg powder and go have fun! Your rifle will never know that the reload is a souped up 50-70 round! Your velocity will be in the 1300 fps range

[concho]

Sharps 50/90 ? what is the twist in barrel ? that will determine what bullet will perform best ?

[Don McDowell]

You need to know what twist the rifle has. If it's the slow twist barrel then you'll have to shoot the old 475 -500 gr bullets. If it's the fast twist barrel you may not get it to shoot a bullet under 600 grs.
So before you jump off on the mould buying spree, measure the barrel twist, and then you may want to consider buying some commercial cast bullets to see which ones your gun is going to like.

[WARD O]

Yes, check the twist! Original Sharps rifles had twists of approx 1 in 36 and normally shot bullets of about 475 grains. This combination did not perform that well at long range and was part of the reason the 45 calibers took over in the buffalo hunting fields. Now days, by increasing the twist rate in the 50's to about 1 in 22 they will handle the 650 grain bullets, these perform better at the long ranges. The draw back here is that not all of us enjoy a full afternoon of shooting 650 grain bullets over 100-110 grains of powder. Shooting a few heavies an afternoon is not an issue but trying to be carefully accurate with 100 rounds in a hour or two might test you a bit.

Having a fast twist 50-90 does not necessarily mean you have to shoot 650 grain all the time. My first 50-90 had the 22 twist and it shot the RCBS 450 FN quite well out to 200 yards.

ward

[John Allen]

Is your fouling soft or hard?

[MT Chambers]

My 50/90 is a C. Sharps '74 with Badger barrel and is deadly with the 515 gr. Lyman 515142, it is a good hunting bullet and not meant for real long range work.

[EDG]

It is not much of a gamble to order a .515 Lee mold and try them. The worst that could happen is you waste sometime and you have to sell the mold at a slight loss.

[Pappy 1]

I have shot a few different rounds out of the sharps. I have shot some 450 grain and the 515 grain bullets, both performed ok. I shot a 3 inch group at a 100 yards with the 115 grain bullets. I have loaded up some more 450 grains and going to give them a try. I dropped some powder of Fg, 100 grains with a 30 wad. I will see how these loads perform. They both have a bullet diameter of .512. I have shot some of the 450 grains before but it has been a very long time since I have shot them, so I don't remember how the grouping was, well see how they perform.

I had a question and I am not sure if you can do this. If I purchase a mold at .511 and wanted to size to a .510 diameter, can a person size the bullet down from a .511 to a .510 with out deforming the bullet through a die set.

[country gent]

Yes you can size dowwn a couple thousadths. I pan lube when I shoot grease grooved ullets and use a lee puh thru sizer die in my press. The Lee pushes on the solidest part of the bullet the base. The proper alloy makes a big diffrence in what you need to do. You can size and lube in several diffrent set ups also. Lymann, RCBS, Star and some others.

[Pappy 1]

Thanks, I thought you could size the bullets down but I was not sure of it. I just put in an order through Buffalo arms. I ordered a casting mold in a .511 in the 500 grain bullet. It should be her in 3 weeks or so. I am looking forward to casting some bullets for the big fifty. I had another question, I read that some people casting for the black powder bullets do not size their bullets. Some say they shoot very well just out of the mold.

[Lead pot]

If you didn't check the rate of twist before you ordered that 500 gr mould you ignored some good advice.
The ROT in the .50's will run from 1/22 to 1/36 and if you have the 1/36 it will work just fine. If you have one with a 1/22 that mould might make a good paper weight.

[Pappy 1]

I have a 1/22 twist and I was told that a 500 grain bullet would perform well through the barrel. So I hope it won't make a good paper weight.

[Lead pot]

I think the guys that told you that don't shoot a 1/22 ROT or don't shoot past 50 or 100 yards.
If 4 or 5" is good enough for you for 100 yards you will get along just fine.
One more thing. Most of the over the counter .50 moulds like Lee and the rest, those moulds are still cut for the old .50-70 Gov. .512 to .515" even the sizing dies are running way over sized for todays .50's .50-70 or the .50/2.5.
You cant compress Lead, lead will flow,you relocate it. When you resize a .515 or even a .512 you are relocating the lead your squeezing down. Most generally it will flow into the lube grooves and the base. If that bullet does not go into the sizing die straight you will relocate that lead your sizing down uneven. making uneven bullet bases that defeats the accuracy.
Some times it's best to bite the bullet and spend a few more $$ and get a proper mould than buy several lesser cost and get frustrated.

[John Boy]

Interesting, an old BP loading chart says a 473gr bullet with 90gr Fg powder has a fps of 1350 ... is the load for a 50-90! Save your money shooting them 650gr 'artillery shells' ;)

[Lead pot]

John you must have read the charts for the 86 Win shooting a .50-110 exp or the old Sharps with a 1/36 ROT.
If you think that a .515" diameter bullet at 473 gr will shoot good in Pappy's .500 bore .510 groove with a 1/22 ROT it's time you empty your pipe with those funny weeds. :bigsmyl2:

[John Boy]

Lead Pot - load is for the the 'old' 50-90 Sharps not the 50-110. The twist rate is not identified. So, without the bullet dimensions and doing a calculation for it to determine if it is suitable for the 1:36 or 1:22 - have to lean on your expertise for a 1:22
Now the Q is - what is the optimum bullet based on weight - length - base - velocity for the 1:22 twist - let's say using the Powley Calculator NOT the Greenhill formula?

All I know is: with an original #1 RRB: 50-70 and the Lee 450gr bullet with 70gr Swiss FFg @1263 fps ... I can do this at 1000yds
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgway%20May%202009/IMGP0220.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Ridgway%20May%202009/IMGP0220.jpg.html)Infamous Miss at Homer! Spotter said the spinner was doing about 150 mph :cool:

[Lead pot]

John,

Not wanting to get a P---ng match going here. I have no doubt that you can do this with your original #1 RRB but it has a lot slower ROT than a 1/22.
I have no idea what the Powley Calculator would say for the 1.5" long bullet my .50/2.5 shoots would say for the 1285 fps I shoot it at, but my rifle showes it shoots it very good all the way out to 1200 yds and it will not shoot a 600 gr that will stay inside 6" @200yds.
I been down this road with the 50 Shiloh for too many years. I swage bullets for my 50 and was given GG bullets in the old original weights and I might just as well have used a sling shot and got better accuracy using them.

Might see you at Ridgeway yet sometime this fall.
Shoot straight.

[John Boy]

Lead pot - as always I have to defer to your knowledge. I don't have a 1:22 Shiloh in the safes.

Might see you at Ridgeway yet sometime this fall.
It would be my pleasure to meet and shoot with you there. I plan a September run up there and for w44wcf's October Lever Action 2 day match. Each trip for a week. Let me know when your thinking of coming!
Bring a scoped HiBore too - the new 1000 yd Silhouette range is awesome

[Lead pot]

It will have to be in Oct. I'm shooting at Cadillac Mich on the first weekend of Oct, and I have a Bison Hunt in Sept. The Wife wants to get back east to see the fall colors but Oct might be too late.

At John's lever shoot, does it have to be a lever rifle with a hammer or is a Savage 99 with cast bullets OK?