PDA

View Full Version : Pics- How accurate are Powder coated, or Hi-tek coated boolits



ryokox3
08-10-2013, 11:27 PM
One of the most asked questions about coated boolits is how accurate are they. A good point as it is some work to do and we all ask at one time or another 'is it worth it'. I would say 80% or more of the coated boolits are handgun boolits. Hence I made this up using 9mm Luger on top of promo powder. All boolits have the same charge. Top left of each target is jacketed handloads to give comparison. Only minor changes to the load were done to make the jacketed a similar velocity (per the load book, not a chrony)

So lets see how they did:

78859
Ignore the right side if this target, it clipped on my scanner. The image below shows that side.
A descent group with jacketed (Top left). An incredible group with the powder coated (bottom left). Doubt I'll get 5 in that small a ring again.

78858
Now to the right side. Top right is Hi-Tek. Looks like a good group that was marred with a flyer. I think the flyer was the shooter not the coating.(top right)

Bottom right labled Hybrid. This was an experiment. I took some of my first powder coated boolits that did not get a good coating at all from my reject bin. They had an incredibly thin coating and lots of lead visible. I then gave a single hi-tek coating. Although thoroughly coated it did not work out, as the group shows. Hey this is all about experimenting right :-P


78860
Now for a second run. Top left is jacketed. Top right is Hi-Tek. Both on the bottom are powder coated. 2 different batches, but same method.


So a few final thoughts.

First I hope this helps some people out. I tried my best to make this as non biased as possible. The powder coated boolits were coated base down with an electrostatic spray gun. The base was not coated. For the hi-tek, I used the instructions and also advice on this forum. This was only my third batch of them, However I do believe it was a proper and successful coating.

All batches used (powdercoat and hi-tek)passed the acetone and smash tests.

The gun used is clone of an mp5, SBR. I chose a carbine as I could use a rest at the front and get the best accuracy while eliminating as much as possible effect from the gun itself. Distance was approximately 15 yards. Unfortunately with all the coating I have been doing, I did not have any normal lubed lead boolits to bring. Maybe in the future if anyone wants I'll do another set with them included.

I did not use any piglet method of coated boolits as I do not feel I have the process down well enough to make a fair representation of that process.

-Ryoko

dbosman
08-11-2013, 12:14 AM
Thank you. Results on paper is good to see.

jmort
08-11-2013, 12:22 AM
Powder electrostatic coating results are impressive. Thanks for real world data. That is what everyone wants to see.

Patricklaw
08-11-2013, 12:53 AM
Very nice. Thank you for sharing. I'm ISO a new oven and my powder coat experiments can continue.

leadman
08-11-2013, 01:54 AM
My results with powder coat and Hi-Tek have run very close together as far as accuracy. I probably fired 500 PCd boolits and many more than that with the HI-Tek coating.
I use a Chrony when shooting so can tell you for sure the lubed boolits and PC'd have close to equal velocity. For a 1,300 fps handgun load the HT will be about 1,250 fps in my experience.
Did you clean the barrel between coatings and then foul the barrel with the coating to be shot? Even when changing wax based lubes when shooting it may take up to 6 or 8 rounds to get the load to settle down.

ryokox3
08-11-2013, 10:17 AM
A very good point leadman. I admit I did not clean between each type. If I repeat the test in the future I will certainly do that. -Ry

ffries61
08-11-2013, 01:15 PM
Has anyone done any long term testing on PC boolits, as far as possible wear on the barrel ? just wondering.

Fred

357maximum
08-11-2013, 01:26 PM
Has anyone done any long term testing on PC boolits, as far as possible wear on the barrel ? just wondering.

Fred

Plastic/Polymer V.S Modern Barrel Steel ????????

I would imagine that when someone started pushing the envelope into J-word rifle velocities they could see some fouling similar to a trapshooters shotgun, but that is just a possible maybehaps that may not even come to light. I wish I had more time and money.....I would invest in the system and find out what happens at 2700 FPS plus, that J.O.B thing stands in the way of that particular thought train at the moment however. Personally I would really like to know what accuracy is like at J-word speeds in say a .243, 30-06, 7mm A.I, and a 35 Whelen, etc, etc, etc.....someday.....maybe.

popper
08-11-2013, 03:07 PM
Post # 715 in the H-T thread. 165 gr. 308 GC/PC, 2240 fps @ 50. Works for me. I have to recook & WD the remaining H-T coated to see if I can do as good. My thought is the H-T softens them. Alloy is 1-2% Sb with a tad of Cu, close to 50/50 COWW/pure.
ryokox3 My results with 40SW were about the same as yours, PC works, H-T works and is easier, maybe a little less accurate.
Next is 9mm but have to find a good expander, my RCBS die is .352 - that won't work. We need to specify the alloy as it will effect the targets.

KYShooter73
08-11-2013, 06:15 PM
Not as pretty as the op's groups, but 20 yards factory jwords vs PC with M&P.

78927

78928

RobsTV
08-11-2013, 06:42 PM
Those groups posted comparing to jacketed are about what I normally see as a minimum after switching from jacketed to normal cast. Cast seems to always drop group sizes 2 to 4x.

Please post group sizes comparing normal lubed cast to PC.

popper
08-11-2013, 11:27 PM
RobsTV I usually shot the AR off the bipod. @ 50 I get the same group size for 168 Amax, veggie oil lube or PC, ~ 1", 10-60 rnd groups.

Grump
08-13-2013, 04:55 PM
Well since those 20-yard groups look so much like my 50-yard groups with the .45 and the better .38s, I'll just stick with sticky fingers from TAC#1.

The idea and process is interesting, but investing that much time and multiple handling of the bullets between casting and finally loading them must equal or better my J-Word accuracy before it would be worth it to me. Maybe. I'm loading for Bullseye at 50, not IPSC at 20-25 max.

KTM400
08-13-2013, 06:40 PM
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww68/mattinaz/Hunting%20Pics/DSCN04261_zps79153abf.jpg (http://s706.photobucket.com/user/mattinaz/media/Hunting%20Pics/DSCN04261_zps79153abf.jpg.html)
This target in ES sprayed flat black HFPC, bullet is Lee 356-125-2R sized to .356 after PC. Load is 4.0 gr of Ramshot Zip w SB sp primer 1.095 OAL. Gun is G34 with Lone Wolf bbl.


http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww68/mattinaz/Hunting%20Pics/DSCN04251_zps5240cfa9.jpg (http://s706.photobucket.com/user/mattinaz/media/Hunting%20Pics/DSCN04251_zps5240cfa9.jpg.html)
This target is Piglet PC with lacquer thinner. Everything else is the same. Targets consist of 6 rounds each and were shot offhand at 10 yards. It was a little breezy and the target stand had some sway to it. That is what I blame the 2 individual 3 shot groups on the first target on.

I've got some other variables to tweak a little, but all things considered, I think I can find a usable USPSA load out of all this. Hopefully I will never have to wait for a vendor to get bullets back in stock EVER again.

RobsTV
08-14-2013, 10:03 AM
KTM400, are your boolits tumbling or is something else making the holes so enlarged, but not in a circular way (especially the target from HFPC)?

KTM400
08-14-2013, 11:49 AM
KTM400, are your boolits tumbling or is something else making the holes so enlarged, but not in a circular way (especially the target from HFPC)?

Those targets are about 3 or 4 years old, printed on thick, shiny photo type stock and have been in the garage in AZ heat their whole life. They are dried out and kinda crispy. Then they were shot with no cardboard backing.

I got good hits on 8 inch steel out to 20 yards. I don't think I would have had that accuracy if they were tumbling. But... I am going to try sizing the next batch to .358. I'll report back on that as well.

leadman
08-14-2013, 12:23 PM
In my Contender carbine 223 Rem I have managed to get 3,065 fps with 1.8" groups at 100 yards with H-T coated boolits. Going to the garage this morning to load up some more and try for higher velocity and tighter accuracy. Also going to load up some 30-06 for another run. Trying to get about 2,700 fps with a 200gr H-T coated boolit. I have gotten 2,550 fps but accuracy was over 4" at 100 yards.
I have gotten just over 1" groups with my Ruger SBH Hunter in 41 mag at 50 yards with PC and HT.

popper
08-14-2013, 11:50 PM
Finally seeing the light. I used my home brew alloy strength tester on the PCd & H-T. My 40 PC AC gave 18# (nose not coated), 9mm H-T AC = 19#. 308 PC WD = 32#. 30-30 H-T WD after 1 hr @ 250 = 15# ???. Conclusion, my alloy and H-T should be good for pistol, not good enough for rifle, as evidenced by earlier tests, accuracy stinks, but no leading. I'll try 350 for an hour and test again. And pull those I loaded as they won't work. Wrote up my tester in the pencil hardness testing thread. I'm not interested in BHN, but pressure where the alloy goes plastic, shears. Should be able to calculate the PSI shear strength.

ryokox3
08-15-2013, 11:15 AM
Finally seeing the light. I used my home brew alloy strength tester on the PCd & H-T. My 40 PC AC gave 18# (nose not coated), 9mm H-T AC = 19#. 308 PC WD = 32#. 30-30 H-T WD after 1 hr @ 250 = 15# ???. Conclusion, my alloy and H-T should be good for pistol, not good enough for rifle, as evidenced by earlier tests, accuracy stinks, but no leading. I'll try 350 for an hour and test again. And pull those I loaded as they won't work. Wrote up my tester in the pencil hardness testing thread. I'm not interested in BHN, but pressure where the alloy goes plastic, shears. Should be able to calculate the PSI shear strength.

One of my hopes with coated boolits was not needing to worry about bhn, if it was not something like pure lead atleast. Unfortunately that seems to not be the case.

You mentioned my alloy at one point Popper, I'm simply using range pickup. Not sure the bhn as I did the graphite pencil test at one point but that was before heating for the coatings.

popper
08-15-2013, 12:07 PM
ryokox3 - exact reason I came up with this rig. Now I know anything > 20# is good for pistol, 25# for my 30-30 & 32# for my 308. Consistency and saves range fees for what would be a bad day. I suspect any die but the Lee would work, the pin in the Lee will slide.

Grump
08-15-2013, 11:34 PM
Those targets are about 3 or 4 years old, printed on thick, shiny photo type stock and have been in the garage in AZ heat their whole life. They are dried out and kinda crispy. Then they were shot with no cardboard backing.

I got good hits on 8 inch steel out to 20 yards. I don't think I would have had that accuracy if they were tumbling. But... I am going to try sizing the next batch to .358. I'll report back on that as well.

Well, target paper and target "tagboard" is made with short fibers. Office copier papers and photo type papers of higher quality are made with long cellulose fibers. Holes vs. tearing. Like many things, it's a matter of degree.

When older acid-bearing papers get into the yellowing stage, their fibers are broken down by the acid residues even more. I have about a half-roll of very, very old targets that will tear if you look at them sideways. They started out as short-fiber paper. If you made a paper airplane out of one of those, it might lose a wing in a stiff gust...

KTM400
08-20-2013, 01:31 PM
Okay, went out this morning to practice and test some more. These 2 targets were shot consecutively at 18 yards, off hand, from the holster, on the clock, 10 rounds in < 10 second par time. Pistol is G34 with LW bbl. Target on right is Lee 356-125-2R, ESPC with HF black over 4 (or 4.2) grains of RS zip. Target on left is Berry 124 gr plated with same load. The 5 ring is 7 5/8" in diameter. I put the targets on a solid cardboard backing to help show the holes. For my purposes, I would call both targets equal. 7 shots in or mostly in and 3 out or mostly out. I have no problem saying, for me, the PC are just as accurate, if not more, than any other commercial boolit. Once I have exhausted my stash of purchased commercial boolits, I will be using my own for all my pistol shooting.

Also, the PC boolits are still sized at .356. I will be doing some at .358 to try in both the factory Glock bbl as well as the LW when I get around to casting and coating another batch.

Lastly, there is no leading in the bbl and whatever is in there, comes out with a couple patches, some hoppies and a nylon bbl brush.

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww68/mattinaz/Hunting%20Pics/DSCN04281_zpsae78365f.jpg (http://s706.photobucket.com/user/mattinaz/media/Hunting%20Pics/DSCN04281_zpsae78365f.jpg.html)

popper
08-20-2013, 03:06 PM
Finally got to test my 130 gr 9mm mould with green H-T in the XDS9. I like.:bigsmyl2: worked great @ 7ys. not aiming at anything but first shot. 2 coats, need to work on better coating technique. Alloy is 1-11/2% Sb. 308 PC @ 100 wasn't bad, 41gr. H335 165 GC in AR, > 2300 fps. Increased the powder by 2 gr. & this was LC brass vs the Win/Rem commercial I was shooting. Recoil is greater, POI is higher, guessing ~200fps more. Also haven't cleaned for 3 range trips. Gotta turn the gas down next time. Added 1% more Sb for the next go around. Haven't shot much 100 in last year, need to practice. 30-30 2 coats H-T 180 gr FB, cooked 1 hr & WD. Terrible. I think all on paper but scattergun pattern. I'll stick to PC for rifle. I did 1 rnd of green in the 308, POI was 6" right of POA.
7974979750