38 Long Outside Lubricated Bullets.

[moodyholler]

I ordered a NEI 2 cavity O.L. 140 grain heeled bullet mold. It has one tiny groove in it. Is this the grease groove? Does it need enlarged? I am shooting a 38 special case full of Goex Cartridge. How about Lee Alox Lube? Next question: On the group buys are there ever any extra molds made up and later for sale? Thanks bunch, moodyholler

[KCSO]

Originaly those bullets were outside lubed just like a 22. The bullet had a waxy coating all over the outside. As a consequence the bullets picked up dirt and grime and wore the guns out quickly. In a modern gun shooting modern black powder you need more lube than a waxy coating will give you . I use a gresed felt wad seperated from the powder by a thin waxed card wad. Remember that in the old days if you shot 10 shots something you had expended a lot of ammo. Now we shoot 50 rounds at a time at the least. To get adaquate power from the 38 long colt I use FFFg powder, the wads and top it off with the heeled bullet. This gives me about the same poop as a modern 38 S and W round and accuracy from a Lightning is running 2 1/2" at 25 yards. From my Navy conversion I can do under 6" for the most part, but the twist in the bbl is not right for a bullet.

[moodyholler]

So for maximum bang I need to have an inside lubricated mold made? Thanks, moodyholler PS, I am shooting these from a 30" barrelled BALLARD.

[Bent Ramrod]

Moodyholler,

I shoot a .380 Long rook rifle using heel bullets cast from the bullet mold on an Ideal .38 LOL tong tool. I load the cases with primer and powder, press the shank of the bullet into the case by hand (a sized case will hold the bullet in if you don't shake it violently or pull on it) and then dunk the bullet up to the mouth of the case in Lee Liquid Alox. I then put the cartridges nose down in a 50-cavity plastic box. I haven't needed a wax overpowder wad with these loads, but they've all been mild smokeless ones. The little shallow groove at the end of the ogive is indeed a lube groove, but you might as well dunk the whole bullet, as outside lubed bullets were (and are) totally covered in this manner.

It's a messy job, but someone has to do it. :-P The .38 bullets shoot very well; and right to point of aim at 50 yards. That wax formula for .22 rimfire bullets is a marvelous invention; until it comes out as a dip formula, I guess those of us interested in primitive cartridges will have to struggle with the gooier lubes.

[Leftoverdj]

Liquid Alox will give you a gooey mess with black powder. It's like cleaning tar out of a barrel. If I were shooting a Ballard in .38 Long Colt, I would think hard on breech seating the bullet. Old time Match shooters did it that way, and it gets you around the whole heel bullet/custom mould mess.

The coating on .22 bullets is easily approximated with either Johnson's Paste Wax or Rooster Jacket. Never tried either with black, but both work well with smokeless at BP velocities.

Inside lubed bullets are not going to give you any accuracy. The bullets have to be too small for the bore to be able to fit inside the case.

[Bent Ramrod]

Leftoverdj,

Thanks for the tip on the Johnson's Paste Wax; I'll have to give that a try. I've never tried the Lee Liquid Alox with black powder, only smokeless. I would imagine a slightly more liquidy version of some of the homemade black powder (more canola oil and Crisco, etc.) would make them "dippable."

I've gotten worse results with hollow base bullets in a .32 CF/RF Ballard rifle than with the heel bullets. Before I found all the loading equipment for this caliber, I used to use a .311" round ball ahead of the charged shell, and this worked as well as anything, except for convenience.

[Leftoverdj]

Bent, the Johnson's is applied by heating the bullets to just past the melting point of the wax, adding wax and tumbling gently. Glass jar in the sunshine will heat them enough. You can see the color change when the bullets are coated. Dries a lot quicker and harder than LA and is not tacky.

I'd try a grease cookie if I were messing with black. Made some up a while back for a totally different project by saturating felt in a melted 50/50 mixture of Crisco and beeswax and cutting them out with an arch punch. Didn't let me get any more velocity with my PB .45-70 loads, but it put more lube in the bore. Add a scooch of olive oil and you've got Emmert's Lube.

[moodyholler]

Thanks for the info. I have found that 148 grain HB wadcutters and 2.7 grain of Bullseye shoots very well out to 75 yards. Am going to try some of the heeled bullets this week with 2.5 grains of Bullseye and have dipped them in melted SPG. WIll try BP next week same way. moodyholler