What am I doing wrong?

[High Lord Gomer]

For starters, I bought a Lee 2 cavity tumble lube .401 mold.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/333143/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-tl401-175-swc-40-s-and-w-401-diameter-175-grain-tumble-lube-semi-wadcutter

The bullets came out .399 - .401 at the base and .397-.399 near the top. These would lead my barrel and frequently tumble and go through the paper sideways.

So I bought a Lee 6 cavity traditional lube group mold.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/569185/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-401-175-tc-40-s-and-w-401-diameter-175-grain-truncated-cone

These are coming out .400-.401 at the base and .398-.401 near the top.

I am using scrap range lead to which I added 2% tin and 2% antimony.

The odd thing is that I also picked up a 45 mold and it is coming out at .458 with the same lead.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/313971/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-452-228-1r-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-228-grain-1-ogive-radius

Pouring from the same Rcbs Pro-Melt pot with no change to the temp the 45s come out more frosted than the .40s. Does that mean I let the mold get too hot?

[Brenden]

I have the same 6 cavity mold that you do, I've had good results with it using 50% range lead and 50% COWW tumbled in LEE alox.

[500MAG]

It could be that your alloy is not hot enough when you are pouring the 40's. the hotter melt will fill out the mold better. This may be why te 45's are coming out good. Frosted boolits mean your alloy is too hot but they shoot just fine.

[Dan Cash]

Slug your bore. Order a mould from a reputable maker that will drop a bullet 2 thousandths larger than your bore. Cast the bullet no harder than 50/50 wheel weight/pure lead. Pan lubricate the bullet with 1/2 bees wax 1/2 +- Neatsfoot oil. Go shooting and smile.

[high standard 40]

To address the frosting 45s but the 40s don't. You are running two molds that are identical except for cavities. Since the 45 mold has less metal and you are filling it with a larger volume of hot alloy, it will heat faster and get hotter if the casting rate is the same for both molds. Speed up the 40 or slow down on the 45 or change the alloy temp from one to the other. It takes time and experience to learn what each mold likes.

[captaint]

Frosted boolits is not necessarily a negative thing. Lightly frosted is what I consider good. Heavily frosted and rough on the outside is probably mold too hot. Try not to get your alloy hotter than, like 725. Any more than that and we "burn up" the good stuff. Try adding about 2% tin by weight. A little tin really helps make better boolits. Mike

[Larry Gibson]

High Lord

Your range scrap probably had too much antimony in it to begin with. Mix 30 -40 % lead with the alloy you've mixed. Or a new batch adding 20% lead, forget the antimony and add 2 % tin to the new mix. Cast at 725 degrees.

Larry Gibson

[Harter66]

+1 on Larrys info.

Unless your hand sorting your range metal into at least jackets , ML/buckshot, and hard/soft cast you will find it isprobably to hard and will cast small. I ran jacketed cores 90/10 w/ WW and water dropped them for a 40. it was the only 1 that would shoot a max load well . in fact that XD was just closing up groups at the max.

[Cosmiceyes]

Frosted boolits is not necessarily a negative thing. Lightly frosted is what I consider good. Heavily frosted and rough on the outside is probably mold too hot. Try not to get your alloy hotter than, like 725. Any more than that and we "burn up" the good stuff. Try adding about 2% tin by weight. A little tin really helps make better boolits. Mike
Larry it's always nice to learn from you! Your always clear with what you explain so I don't get lost in the chat room "Etiquette".

[steve4102]

Personally, I think it's your mold. I have a Lee 6 cav 175 TC that drops "small" bullets no matter what I do. I quit using it, I use my 2 cav that drops the correct size for me.

[ku4hx]

Antimony is one of those strange elements that actually expands as it cools and solidifies. Increase your Antimony content to maybe 5-6% and you may find your boolit's diameter will be more to your liking.

[RobsTV]

Also leading and tumbling in the high pressure 40 S&W can be the result of using a fast burning powder, or too much fps. Both can cause stripping and reduced size as the boolit skids a bit before it catches rifling enough to spin, which will lead the barrel and cause boolit to tumble.

[HeavyMetal]

Not a fan of the Lee TL idea and what you are going through is the best reason I think that.

You can play with all the alloy adjustments you want but I don't think your going to get a boolit out of that mold that is the same diameter top and bottom, but if you do your luckier than I ever was!

I will suggest you send it back and look for a mold in the 140 to 150 grain range. my experience with the 40 has lead me to believe that this is the optimum boolit weight range and, loaded correctly, can get the 40 into 357 power levels safely.

[flashhole]

I use the 6-cavity mold too. I also have the 401 sizer kit. I run every bullet through the sizer. I discoverd inconsistencies and started poking at it. Make shure your mold is hot when dropping bullets. Cold molds result if differnt size bullets. I drop the first 30 or so back in the pot.

[detox]

Quote from my RCBS Casting Thermometer instructions:

The recommended casting temperatures for casting metals are as follows:

Pure Lead 700
1:20 Tin-Lead 700
1:10 Tin-Lead 700
Wheel Weights 775
Linotype 775

I normally cast at lower temps, especially when casting with Linotype. So today using my RCBS Pro Melt bottom pour pot i turned up the heat to RCBS recommended temps and casted the most beatiful filled out .308 boolits ever.

I normally cast at 800 with pure lead and larger boolits..

Lately I have been stirring and fluxing with Vita Flux about every 50 boolits. Vita Flux is what was used in older linotype machines.

Buy the better quality RCBS thermometer for accurate temperature measurement.

The larger 45 mould will get hotter, so cast slower or use a wet sponge to cool top of sprue. It takes practice to get correct.

[High Lord Gomer]

+1 on Larrys info.

Unless your hand sorting your range metal into at least jackets , ML/buckshot, and hard/soft cast you will find it isprobably to hard and will cast small. I ran jacketed cores 90/10 w/ WW and water dropped them for a 40. it was the only 1 that would shoot a max load well . in fact that XD was just closing up groups at the max.

Antimony is one of those strange elements that actually expands as it cools and solidifies. Increase your Antimony content to maybe 5-6% and you may find your boolit's diameter will be more to your liking.

Now I'm confused...does too much antimony cause smaller or larger boolits?



Also leading and tumbling in the high pressure 40 S&W can be the result of using a fast burning powder, or too much fps. Both can cause stripping and reduced size as the boolit skids a bit before it catches rifling enough to spin, which will lead the barrel and cause boolit to tumble.

I typically use WST or Solo 1000 for lead boolits. They seem to smoke less and not get as hot as others I have tried (like Titegroup).



Not a fan of the Lee TL idea and what you are going through is the best reason I think that.

You can play with all the alloy adjustments you want but I don't think your going to get a boolit out of that mold that is the same diameter top and bottom, but if you do your luckier than I ever was!

I will suggest you send it back and look for a mold in the 140 to 150 grain range. my experience with the 40 has lead me to believe that this is the optimum boolit weight range and, loaded correctly, can get the 40 into 357 power levels safely.

I've never played with lighter boolits in .40. I have always stuck close to 180 so I could load them at just under 1000 fps to make major (165 PF). With 140s I'd have to push them over 1200 fps and I thought slower was better for lead.



Buy the better quality RCBS thermometer for accurate temperature measurement.

The larger 45 mould will get hotter, so cast slower or use a wet sponge to cool top of sprue. It takes practice to get correct.

I am using this. Is there a better one? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/357906/rcbs-lead-bullet-casting-thermometer


A little update...

After some advice (thanks Dusty) I cleaned the .40 mold better and cast some that were slightly larger (.402 at the base and .401 above the lube groove).

I also took a closer look at the .45 boolits and they are .452 but most have a slight flare at the very base that measures from .454 to .458. Definitely going to need to resize those.

I have been casting them at 675 but last night tried some at 720. Surprisingly they looked less frosted than the .45 I did in my first session, but I also didn't do as many not get the mold as hot.

[High Lord Gomer]

From left to right:

Keeper from last night cast at 720
One of the frosted ones from a couple days ago cast at 675
One of the rejects from last night at 720

http://themxtrack.com/45.jpg