Need Advice-Which over/under or semi-auto to buy?

[stocker1042]

Hey guys...I just joined a local gun club and went to my first 5 stand match. I didn't shoot, but my buddy shot his Beretta semi auto and did pretty well. I would really like to go out and give it a shot. They mix it up every week...skeet one week, trap the next, etc.

I only have standard pump action 12 gauges and I know that won't work...or at the very least isn't ideal. Most of the guys there had over unders, but a few had semi autos. I trust the opinions of the CB crowd, so recommend me a good over/under or semi-auto that will be a decent gun for doing the 5 stand, trap, and skeet. I know it will sort of be a compromise deal between all three styles, but I am just starting and want something that will work well to see how decent I am at it.

I'm willing to spend up to $1000. I'd prefer to stay as far under it as I can, but from what I do know (which isn't much...) I should be able to get something decent for that amount.

Ideas? I'm OK with used if that helps, but I prefer to buy new.

Thanks!
TP

[captbligh]

$1000 won't get you an over-under that will stand up to the number of rounds you'll be shooting at clays. Best bet in my opinion would be to buy a used Remington 1100 12 ga in good operating conditions.

[kenyerian]

Hard to beat an 1100. http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-1100/model-1100-sporting-series.aspx You should be able to find a used one in your price range. A new is going to go over your budget. They do hold their value very well.

[stocker1042]

Ok..it looks like a cool piece. Any other opinions?

[badboyparamedic]

Take a look at a Stoeger Condor Competition, decent price for an entry level gun.

[williamwaco]

The fastest trap and skeet shooter I ever saw used a Remington 870.

He could beak trap doubles in about one half second and on the skeet range you literally only heard one report. You would swear he only fired one shot and broke both birds but there would always be two empties on the ground.


Don't sell the pump short. It is a good machine.

[stocker1042]

Some day I would love to use it. That said, starting out I think the last thing I need to do is add another layer of difficulty...pumping. I am really liking the idea of the 1100.

[jsheyn]

Take a look at the Ruger Red Label. They're built like a tank.

I personally use a e686s 12g

[Houndog]

If it were me I'd buy a used Browning Citori Special Sporting if I could find one. I've had mine seems like forever and shoot Skeet, Trap doubles and Sporting Clays with it. It's had somewhere north of 10K rounds through it and NO problens other than the hinge pin loosening up a little. Try Jaquas in Findley Ohio to buy one. His prices are fair and he won't lie to you just to sell a gun. I've bought several guns from them and have been satisfied every time.

[jimb16]

I shoot a Citori with tubes. You should be able to find a good used one for around $1200.+/-

[gutthooked]

Get a Beretta 391. Stay away from Stoegers.

[flounderman]

If you intend to reload, the automatic throws the cases everywhere. Pump gun, you can eject it into your hand. You need a gun with choke tubes if you intend to shoot skeet and trap with the same gun. Trap choke is full to extra full and skeet is about no choke. You get less felt recoil with an automatic. whatever gun you buy, pattern it to see where the point of impact is. trap guns are designed to shoot high so you can see the bird better. I would use a few borrowed guns to see what felt and worked the best before I bought anything. Then look for a used one like the one you liked best. Pawn shops are flush with shotguns right now. Never pay asking price in a pawn shop. If you don't reload for shotgun, plan on doing it. It takes practice to become a good trap or skeet shooter. Find a gun that shoots where you point it. You don't aim a shotgun, you point it. You want a barrel with plenty of ventilation between the rib and the barrel because if there is not enough space for ventilation, you get a heat mirage floating above the rib after the barrel heats up. an 870 is all you really need to start with, an 1100 or 11-87 are good choices but they all need choke tubes

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Nothing wrong with using your pump for starters. Don't sweat the second shot make the first one count and have fun. I ran about 2,000 shells thru an 870 when I first started. Lots of guys where happy to let me try out their shotguns so long as I used my own shells. I ended up with a used Beretta 391 for $800, I still have it and it is a joy to shoot. I picked up a used Beretta O/U 686 for $900 that I think will end up replacing the 391 at the range if I ever find the time to get back out there.

[fecmech]

If you go with an Auto go with the Beretta 390,391,3901 and I would recommend staying away from the 1100 or especially the 1187 remington. I've been shooting clays for 20 years and Remington auto's are scarce as hens teeth on clays fields, they don't hold up and are not reliable. Beretta Auto's rule in that game if you go Auto. Shoot your pump for a while and try other peoples guns. Don't be in a hurry to buy a gun.

[375RUGER]

Why isn't a pump ideal? I wouldn't think twice about using my BPS, it's what I shoot best with. Shotgun fit is more important than the platform.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

When it comes to semi autos Beretta makes a great line of shotguns and there are plenty of older 390s out there. Benelli also makes a great line of semi autos.

If you go the o/u way I would recommend saving your money and heart for nothing less than a Browning or Beretta you can spend more if you want but I really doubt you will see a practical difference until you get more experience.

[seagiant]

Hi,
As you can see you opened up a can of worms! Everyone has different opinions. The trouble is most shotguns made by major makers are going to work fine and have acceptable workmanship. Contrary to some here I think the Rem 1100 is an excellent choice to start with! Just keep it clean!

I lucked up and found a Beretta O/U 682 Gold E a few years old but picked it up for $1000 out the door and as it is a competition model can be shot loose and then rebuilt! I doubt I will ever have to do that but it is of that quality! That is my skeet gun and is only used for that although would be an excellent quail gun.

I shoot a single barrel Browning BT-99 for trap and it is nice and they are quite popular at my range! As you see there are different guns for different games but I still contend that a Rem 1100 with chokes would be a great all around affordable beginner gun to get your feet wet! I have a left hand model that I use for sporting clays and for anything where my more dedicated shotguns would not work as well!

[stocker1042]

As always, when you ask for opinions, they come in all shapes and sizes. I appreciate every one!

[crawfobj]

If you go with an Auto go with the Beretta 390,391,3901 and I would recommend staying away from the 1100 or especially the 1187 remington. I've been shooting clays for 20 years and Remington auto's are scarce as hens teeth on clays fields, they don't hold up and are not reliable. Beretta Auto's rule in that game if you go Auto. Shoot your pump for a while and try other peoples guns. Don't be in a hurry to buy a gun.

Fecmec knows what he's talking about. Don't rush in. When you do decide to buy, the beretta 390 series is where it's at. Plenty of used ones out there too.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Give Weatherby Auto a chance too at around $450 to 500 for a new one!

I can't buy it as I need a rifled version for all my testing, you're lucky for your needs it would just fit right-in.

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Ajay
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[W.R.Buchanan]

If you go to www.trapshooters.com and ask this question you can get 100 answers in one day. However most of them will say that if you already have a decent pump you are good to go for all those sports.

A Rem 870 or if you must spend money a newer 1100 are great guns. Oh guess what? they just happen to make these neat-o shell catchers that hook onto the gun and catch your spent hulls so they don't fly all over the place and hit the guy next to you.. These are available for 870's 1100's and some of the Beretta Autos as well. More people get into clays shooting with Rem 870/1100's than all other guns combined.

There is no need to go ape here and by something you don't need . You need to see if you even like these games. I started Trapshooting a few years ago with my Browning A5. Then I bought a Citori XT Trap gun. Then I decided I liked Skeet better. Luckily that gun works for Skeet pretty good as well. However I really wanted a .410 for Skeet so I bought a Citori Sporting Clays Edition with 32" bbls for that and I don't shoot my 12 ga. as much now.

These guns were both $2000 ea. They along with Beretta Silver Pigeon shotguns are considered to be "Entry Level Clay Target Shotguns." They are real quality guns and will last thru tens of thousands of rounds and still be good to go. Citori's generally need the springs changed out around 75-100,000 rounds. As long as you keep them nice and don't scratch them all up or abuse them they hold their value well. It is not unusual for a quality Trap Shotgun to have 250,000 rounds thru it.

Or you can spend as much as you can put together,,, Literally. A $20,000 shotgun is a nice piece of kit, but it is not even close to being the top of the heap. I have a friend that just spent $53K on a custom built 28ga. Perrazzi that took nearly two years to build. He loves it. and since he is a dedicated shotgunner who shoots 3-5 times a week, he will get his monies worth out of the gun and probably sell it for what he paid or more. It is not uncommon to go to a large shoot like the Grand American and see guns that are worth $100K! +

So you see. If I was you I'd shoot those pump guns for a year and see if I like the games, and if you do then maybe look at a Citori or Beretta. That way you'll have a better idea of what it is that you really want as opposed to what we say you should buy. You will need to spend around $1800-2000 for the gun and then another $6-800 to get setup to reload the ammo so you can afford to shoot the thing enough, to get good enough, so you might be able to win some money. Or you can shoot your 870 for the rest of your life and have fun.

Beware of sharks in the water, because clay target shooting makes 9 Ball seem like a child's game. 2 years ago a 13 year old kid won the Grand American and $100,000! He didn't even make the cut last year. Lots of money in these sports.

Randy

[stocker1042]

Randy....I agree. The more I have thought about this whole deal..after reading everyone's opinions..and thinking about it...I'm going to roll with my pump and see what's up. I am certain a few guys will let me shoot their guns a few rounds so I can get an idea too of what's up. The prices on some of these shotguns is simply amazing. Once again, I appreciate all the opinions.

[Stephen Cohen]

Since America is still the land of the free, you cant go wrong with a Remington 1100. I had an 1100 skeet and a Winchester 1300 XTR the Remington made me look good, but they were both destroyed in the forced confiscation some years back.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Nice shotguns Randy! I know a gentleman that got me into Trap and I even belonged to the ATA for a few years. I'm a pretty good shot with a shotgun being raised that way. What I CAN"T seem to do is break 200 without a bunch of misses! My Mentor loved to shoot trap for money and we always had fun at his place as he had his own trap range! That was before the divorce of course!

[W.R.Buchanan]

My problem is I can't see to break 25 strait without some misses. It's funny too because the second time I shot trap I used a friends BT99 and broke 24.. I really want a nice older BT99 some day when I'm retired and have time to shoot 2-3 times a week.

WE have Oak Tree gun club just below Valencia off the 5 Freeway (about an hour from home) that you can shoot just about 24/7 anytime you want. But it's an hour drive to get there and back. It is also not cheap. That where all the movie stars go to shoot cuz it's only a half hour north of Burbank.

But I shot two rounds of Skeet yesterday at my Club with my .410 and was at 19 and 20 for those two rounds. I just love that gun and now that I am reloading .410's it is cheaper than shooting 12 ga. Nevermind it cost me $600 to get set up to reload them.

My XT trap gun shoots right to point of aim with both barrels and when you look at the specs the stock on the XT, specifically the height of the comb is within 1/16" of the XS skeet gun. My XT has 30" bbls. and I wish I would have gotten 32's. The .410 has 32's and it works really well. The XT works well for skeet and I have done a 24 with it before I started shooting the .410. after shooting the .410 I should be able to run them with the 12ga,,, Right?

I haven't gotten to shoot Sporting Clays yet. There isn't anyplace close to do it.

I like the shotgun sports because you get to pull the trigger a lot in a short period of time so it is easier to make corrections to your technique and progress.

I just wish I would have had the money to get involved a long time ago.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
The Browning BT-99 is probably the most popular Trap gun at my range. One of the things I like is the nice wide forearm.I installed a Graco recoil reducer and at the same time it made the shotgun good for my longer LOP! The gun is nothing fancy but fits me well and is an out of sight tool for a specific job! I have shot on squads before that everyone in the squad is shooting one! I have shot with some really good shooters and on a good day they can shoot close to 100/100! I can shoot 25 out of 25 but my concentration can't hold and I'm all done!

If you can keep it together and shoot regularly without missing you could quit your day job! I will never have that option I'm afraid!

[Firebricker]

I would agree don't sell your pump gun short. In 2010 I was working out of town five days a week for several months and we were shooting skeet two nights a week. Even when we were getting decent a local guy that would shoot with us never failed to put us and our expensive guns to shame with his Mossberg 500. If you start shooting a lot you'll find a lot of guy's will let you look over their choice of shotguns and a lot of times let you shoot them. This will get you a better idea of what you want.

The only other suggestion I would have is whatever you choose get one with choke tubes if possible. I bought my o/u used it's a field gun with mod/full and it's too tight for skeet but it's choked good for a lot of the other sports. And don't get me wrong I watched a guy shoot in the 20s in skeet with a 30" full choke gun but this gentleman had been at it a long time and was very good. For beginners like me the open choke helps a lot. And just makes the gun more versatile for whatever you use it for.

Fair warning though whether it's skeet,5 stand or sporting clays it gets addictive quick! I'm fortunate that I live close to a trap and sporting clays range. I still like skeet the best but there is nothing really close to the house. So you'll enjoy with whatever shotgun you choose let us know how it goes. Good Luck FB

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: we have a guy in our club who is nearly as tall as you 6'-6or7" He let me shoot his K80 trap gun and with a 15+" LOP. I couldn't hit anything with it cuz it was just too long for me but the gun was nice. it was only a $16K Kreighoff. That's K80 single barrel trap gun with engraving.

Kreighoffs are kind of unique in the shotgun world. Essentially they are Remington 32's made nearly perfect. essentially every part will interchange with every other gun. If you find a new barrel or set of barrels you like,, no problem just get it and it will fit. This makes extra barrels worth $3K+. Same with the wood. I went to Pacific Sales in Covina once and played with the good stuff. I was fitted to a #6 stock and fore-end.

That means you buy a gun either with the stock profile you need already installed, or get the right stock from the factory. Only $3500 for the buttstock and hopefully matching fore-end. People are selling wood and barrels for K80's all the time.

I don't believe there is such a thing as a worn out Kreighoff. The one I shot had well over $200,000 rounds thru it and looked new.

New springs and maybe firing pins and you are good to go for another 20 years.

The cheapest K80 I have ever seen sold was a pretty ugly one that went for $6500. The refinish and tune up cost the guy $2500 and his gun is as good as new. Normal used prices are around $10K.

But this is one place you get what you pay for. As long as you take care of the gun you will get your money back.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
Interesting! I have always seen O/U shotguns coming from one of two schools of style. Those being Germanic and Italian! The Krieghoff K-80,Browning 425/525 Germanic of course and the Perazzi,Beretta,Ruger Red Label, Italian! I put in some lower priced guns as even those seem to go one way or the other. I am very happy with my Beretta 682 Gold E and feel I got a killer deal at $1,000 out the door. I think street price on one now is at least $2500! I can buy another barrel set for it if I wanted but good original barrels for it would cost as much as I paid for the whole gun!

[pergoman]

Don't make the mistake of buying a cheap gun. The Turkish made O/U's are junk if they cost less than $1000. Turkish autos for under $500 are also junk and won't hold up. Cheap guns usually have horrific triggers, function erratically, and lose value before you are out of the gun store. I have 1100's, Beretta autos, and Browning O/U's. You won't go wrong with any of these quality guns. Buy a good quality used gun, shoot it for years, have a great time, and if you ever decide to sell it you will likely get ALL of your money back.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Pergo: I can expand on that. There are not really any decent NEW O/U's under about $1850. However there are used guns available, and good used guns are as good as new guns lots of times. Lots of times they see little use before the person decides he doesn't need it anymore, which was the case with my .410.

My Browning Citori .410 I got earlier this year was used. It had 70 rounds thru it before I got it. It was a new gun! however even if it had a thousand rounds thru it and looked new I would have paid the same amount for it. Incidentally he regrets selling the gun I bought from him and wishes he would have kept it. Guns like that are not easy to replace since they don't make thousands of them.

A trip to www.trapshooters.com will yield a number of used guns for sale every day you can also look at Gun Broker's or Guns America for used guns.

As far as O/U's go the two most common brands worth mentioning are Browning and Beretta. Most of the other good guns are considerably more expensive.

This is a place where it really pays to do your homework and try to shoot any type of gun you are interested in before you buy one.

If you are going to spend $2K you should be happy with the purchase. You can always resell the gun if you don't like it, but more than likely you'll lose some money. Better to get it right the first time.

Randy

[stocker1042]

Here's an update. I decided to just give my old 870 Express pump a skeet choke and let it roll. I hit 17 out of 25 singles. Not too bad for a guy who does not have much experience in my book!

I have an older Winchester 20ga with a mod barrel on it. I hit 11 out of 25 with it. Once again, not bad. I can tell the difference between the two.

Once again, I appreciate the advice. I am going to play around a bit with some other guys guns and see what fits me before jumping out and spending the money on something. If I'm going to buy one, I want it to be what I want.

[W.R.Buchanan]

stocker: Once you learn all the shots you'll do much better.

I have an older Ithaca 37 in 12 ga with a Cutts Compensator on it. I have all the choke tubes. It has been an on hold project for the last several decades.

Someday soon I will be finishing it up and it will go to the Skeet range. I wouldn't hesitate to use your 870 and especially since it is a short barreled one with interchangeable choke tubes.

I like Carlson Choke Tubes at about $27 each. I built one of the lathes they are turned on.

Randy

[ROGER4314]

I have a nice selection of Remington 1100's and 870's in Express and Wingmaster form. My hearts desire would be a Browning Citori in 12 gauge but then, reality sets in.

I have my own electric trap and our standard range trip involves shooting 200 rounds of 12 gauge. When I run out of ammo, it's time to go home! There's no way I could survive that pounding with an 870 or with a Citori. With the 1100 Remington's I shoot my 200 rounds and come home tired but not bruised. The next day, I can feel that my shoulder has had some impact but I'm just fine!

The 1100 Remington is the sweetest shooting shotgun that I've ever owned and I've been shooting them since the late 1960's.

I hear a lot about malfunctions and can say this. The ONLY malfunctions that I've ever had on an 1100 took place last spring. The 1100 was brand new 2012 production, never fired and I had a few failures to fully close the bolt. I put about 10 rounds through the shotgun and it never failed again! I keep good "O" rings on the piston and on my older guns, replaced the extractors and the entire piston assemblies. Those parts are fairly cheap and I did that for routine maintenance. I also replaced the main spring (behind the bolt) and magazine tube springs.

On one of my 1100's (1969 model), I replaced the bolt buffer at the rear of the bolt. It was $4! The 1100's keep on shooting and when maintenance is needed, you can do it yourself for very little cash.

Flash

[granville_it]

FWIW

1. I shoot clays for fun:

Sporting
Skeet and occasionally trap

2. The dead**** polititions down here, took away my Rem 870 and my Beretta self loader. If you object to the language, wait until it happens to you.

3. The auto, I lost no sleep. Took their money and put it in the bank, never liked it.

4. I really miss the 870. It was ideal for sporting and skeet, unless you are into competition shooting. Too heavy for walking about game, great on the back of a ute spotlighting.

5. For walk about game I use a s/s Simson.

6. For clays a Beretta u/o Silver Pidgeon

Don't sell the pump short. It's one hell of a machine.

All the best, Mark

[granville_it]

FWIW

1. I shoot clays for fun:

Sporting
Skeet and occasionally trap

2. The dead**** polititions down here, took away my Rem 870 and my Beretta self loader. If you object to the language, wait until it happens to you.

3. The auto, I lost no sleep. Took their money and put it in the bank, never liked it.

4. I really miss the 870. It was ideal for sporting and skeet, unless you are into competition shooting. Too heavy for walking about game, great on the back of a ute spotlighting.

5. For walk about game I use a s/s Simson.

6. For clays a Beretta u/o Silver Pidgeon

Don't sell the pump short. It's one hell of a machine.

All the best, Mark

[Frosty Boolit]

One thing any shotgun has to do is fire every time. For this reason, from experience, do not buy a stoeger O/U. who cares if they will take it back and fix it this and that number of times if it can't be trusted, it's junk in my opinion. I bought a benelli M2 to replace it and also to use for many different things.

[wv109323]

Others have given solid advice. There is nothing wrong with the 870 with interchangeable chokes. Use it. There is one feature that has not been mentioned. There are several shotgun manufacturers that have shims that go between the stock and the action to make adjustments. One of these is the Beretta 391( I don't think the 390 has it). That is a nice feature. I think you have already figured out that choke tubes are necessary for the multiple disciplines that you want to shoot.
Also another feature that you might look for is the oversize bore now common on several brands of shotguns. Beretta calls their's "Optima-bore". It is supposed to reduce recoil and distort the shot less as the lead shot travels down the bore thus improving patterns. Winchester,Remington,Browning and Beretta all have this feature
I would also try to stick with a target or sporting grade shotgun as opposed to a field grade. The oversize bores are more common, a wider Rib,and sometimes a better trigger are common on Target grades.

[Cerberus62]

As always, when you ask for opinions, they come in all shapes and sizes. I appreciate every one!
OK, then here's two new ones:

Mossberg 930 or Beretta A300. Both are American made.

The A300 is basically the gas system of the excellent AL391 (I wish I had bought more than one) with some of the tweaks of the A400. MSRP for Black Synthetic is in the $750 range, $100 more for real oil finished wood or camo. Synthetic comes adjustable for length of pull, cast and drop. Bass Pro sells these for $649 and $749 all day long.

Mossberg 930 is the best autoloader they have ever made. I have a 930 SPX and it fed and ejected like a hungry baby from the first box. Come in Black Synthetic or Walnut /Blue and camo dipped. List price in the $700's. Walmart & Gander have them for $500-$550. Aftermarket parts and barrels are plentiful.

I need a new duck gun cause I don't want to mess up my nice Beretta 391. I can't decide which, so I will buy both.

The Beretta A300 because I already have that gun memorized from the 391, and the Mossberg 930 because mine works so well, and I can mix-n-match parts for a true "gun system", and both guns have all metal gas systems, no sacrificial O-rings to keep an eye on.

You would not be sorry with either, each is a solid well built gun with a good warranty.

When buying a used gun, always remember that the guy is selling it for a reason...