.25-20 aka .25 WCF

[BLTsandwedge]

'Evening all,

Country life is suiting me just fine in my new role as 'semi-retired' or 'semi-retarded' (the latter being my condition since birth- but you knew that).

In doing an advanced search here on castboolits, I learned quite a bit about rifles chambered in .25-20. 9.2x63AL contributed to the five + year-old threads quite a bit. In short, it seems that regardless of configuration (Winchester lever gun, Savage bolt or Remington pump) that J-words out-spun our beloved boolits. The threads that I reviewed had many folks 'in-progress' with various weights and configurations of boolits- hell-bent on getting accuracy out of this quarter bore.

My question, hat-in-hand.....has anyone established a rifle/boolit-load recipe for this wonnerful ol' 'possum killer? This is research before purchasing moulds, sizing dies etc as a family member stumbled onto this chambering after starting a nice Savage collection. And, of course, any 'obsolite' chambering attracts me like a moth to flame......

...many thanks all......

Tom

[Calamity Jake]

Lyman 257420 and just about any of the fast pistol/shotgun powders works well along with a few of the faster rifle
powders. A load I use for my Marlin LG of the 20's is 9-10gr H or IMR4227, 2400 or ACC 1680 with the above boolit.
Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique and 4759 are just a few of the P/SG powders that can be used.

[earplug]

Friend of mine had a old 25/20 Hand tool with a 85 grain mold. He used Unique, once for the fun of it he measured it with the mold like a dipper. Shot it from a Remington Model 25. It was a forgiving thing to load for.

[50target]

BLTSANDWEDGE, besides the info garnered here, you can go the the Marlinowners.com Forum in the reloading section and they have a multipage sticky on the 25-20. 35Remington is well versed on that cartridge and chimes in here on various subjects. Worth your effort. I have used the Meister 85 gr. bullet for mine. It shoots really well. I have not found it finicky to load for but I am very much on a learning curve, although an experienced handloader. One item you will see over and over is to use small pistol primers instead of small rifle. They give a much gentler push and do not bump the bullet forward before you have good ignition on the powder. About all I can add other than they are a hoot to shoot. I have a Win, 92, An old Marlin 94 and a Rem. model 25, all with cherry bores and I like'em a lot. Take care and enjoy.
Bob

[L Ross]

I shoot a Winchester Low Wall in 25 WCF using RCBS' 25-85-CM. I fill the case with Trail Boss to the base of the bullet. Not very noisy, plain base no check to mess with, very accurate, as cheap to shoot as 22 lr nowadays, and just flat out dumps a squirrel.

Duke

[runfiverun]

I use a rapine 72 gr flat point plain base and 11.5 grs of AA-2230
I think I can go more as each time I increased the charge the groups got better.
I just stopped when clay birds at 100 became easy.
the wife uses my carbine and little girl uses the rifle version for cowboy lever gun shoots leaving me nothing.
the carbine is a favorite for squirrel and grouse shooting around here as it is easy to maneuver and accurate enough for head shots.
most are showing using heavier weights but my next mold will be in the 60 gr area as the rifle seems to prefer that weight area.

[257]

i shoot this in 92 win hi and low wall win and a couple of stevens 44 1/2s i use a 86/88 gr lead bullits also a gas cked version they all shoot very well i also shoot a 25/20 stevens single shot it was a night mare to get good load for it

[303Guy]

H4198 seems to be the powder for max velocity at the lowest pressure and it can go quite low in pressure too. Strangely, there are no loads with Lil'Gun. That means it won't work or loads haven't been developed for it. Strange because it is a top performer in the 218 Bee.

[35remington]

I shoot an analogue to L Ross's load using about 3.4 grains Trail Boss and the same bullet, filling the case to the start of the shoulder or thereabout, obtaining 1080 fps and quite decent accuracy of the just under 1" average range for many groups at 50 yards in an OTT barreled Contender. It's no great trick to duplicate this with a number of different fast powders from Red Dot to Bullseye to Herco to Unique to W231. I find accuracy better at just below the speed of sound than anything much faster in my rather fast twist barrel. This fills the bill for a minimum noise type load and has accounted for a lot of small game.

A whole lot.

The large flake powders may not meter all that well from some measures like the Lee Pro Auto Disk at the lower charge weights and may in fact bridge in the Lee and give squibs at low charge weights below about 3.5 to 3.7 grains, so lately I am leaning toward Bullseye of the Alliant fast powders and have long liked W231 for such use. If you are "retentive" enough to weigh all your charges it doesn't really matter what fast powder you use as what one will do the others will pretty much duplicate. The caliber isn't that discriminating, and a pressure range low enough to work properly is more important than brand of powder. I wouldn't spit twice for any real practical difference between most pistol/shotgun powders.

Best accuracy for me with plainbase is with the slower powders.......2400, 4759, 4227, 5744, etc. at from 1250 to 1450 fps or so. This requires, for example, about 5.5 to 6.3 grains of 2400, 6.5 to 7.5 grains 4227, and 6 to 6.5 grains 4759. Usage of dacron to control powder position variations in velocity and reducing gascutting of the bullet base is helpful for me when powders slower than the fast pistol/shotgun type are used. I have a number of standard and custom moulds for the caliber, including the two most common, which are the RCBS 85 and the Lyman 257420. The path of least resistance in most rifles is the 257420 if you don't mind the expense of a gascheck, and slightly elevated charges to obtain 1550 fps or so give the best accuracy for me, in the range of 6.5 grains 2400, for example.

The RCBS bullet is severely overlubricated if all lube grooves are filled and and purge flyers and first shots wandering out of the group will occur if the rifle has had a bit of a layoff since it was last shot. Either fill the bottom groove only or minimally lube with a tumble type lube and a light coat and use dacron for gas cutting control. Less lube with this bullet at plainbase speeds is a good thing for me. For reasons having to do with large unfilled lube grooves I prefer the RCBS bullet when cast hard or heat treated. The RCBS bullet would probably have been better for smokeless powder use with shallower lube grooves but it can be made to work quite decently as is. Best average groups with this bullet at fifty yards approximate or are a shade under 0.6 inch in my rifle. That's good enough for me.

If your rifle is slower twist, as in 1-14 it may well prefer the 1450 fps range for plainbase in preference to anything slower with the longer bullets. The Lyman is shorter and doesn't seem to have the same issues.

If you like case filling charges and fast gascheck loads H or IMR 4198 works fine. AA 1680 is about the same thing in a better metering ball powder. With the 85 grain gascheck bullets I get better accuracy with the duplication of the old "HV" factory loads at around 1720 fps than possible velocities of 200 plus fps faster, but accuracy is still usable at that speed. Trouble is point of impact is too far above the sightline with the high speed loads if the rifle is sighted for 1450 fps load, so 1720 is about it for me or point of impact divergence with the 85's gets unreasonable. I don't want to keep rezeroing the rifle and prefer to keep it sighted for the widest range of load use. This prevents me from forgetting where to hold or "disremembering" what the rifle is zeroed for.

Killing power is considerably better than the 22 long rifle even at low speeds, and it is quite certain on any medium to large varmint at the higher speeds. Mine is also a called coyote killer.

Most people need a 25-20 if they do any amount of real small game hunting or varminting that does not involve some sort of long range burrow dwelling rodent. They just don't know it, and that's a pity.

A cast bullet rifle of this sort allows a lot of shooting at low cost and that's the best way to roll your own. Mine get shot more, by far, than any other centerfire caliber and a semi progressive press allows the higher production rates needed with less time involved. In terms of volume you'll shoot this more like a pistol than a rifle. Which is why a cost and time effective plainbase mould is on my recommended list as well.

[35remington]

And BTW, as a followup to 303Guy's comments.....Lilgun works great at high speed and at 1500 fps speeds, and is surprisingly position insensitive compared to some other powders that can be used. Some of my best loads using jacketed use it, and it's fine with cast too.

[Dale53]

I got one of the modern Marlin lever actions chambered in 25/20 after dissatisfaction with the .22 rimfires on edible small game. The 25/20 with my cast bullets exceeded my expectations.

I ended up with three good loads after extensive testing. The Lyman 257420 is my cast bullet of choice. I size it at .258". I use a medium hard alloy (WW's +2% tin with gas check). My squirrel load is 4.0 grs of Unique. My medium load is 11.0 grs of RL-7 and my high speed load (just the number for the larger varmints like Fox,Coyotes, and feral Cats) is 14.5 grs of RL-7. This last is for strong rifles, only. The modern Marlin Lever action works perfectly. My case life is long (some have been reloaded over 20 times). All three loads will shoot in the "10" ring on the NRA Smallbore target at 50 yards. The "X" count is not high but it is totally reliable.

As an aside, we had lever action rifle matches at my local club for a couple or three years (8 matches a year) and my rifle won ALL of the matches. My fellow competitors were using jacketed bullets in a variety of calibers from .22 Zipper on up.

I have much affection for these rifles and consider them EXTREMELY practical for edible small game shooting as 35remington states.

Dale53