Rossi Rio Grande 45-70-Done with Rossi/Taurus/Braztech

[NVScouter]

I figured I'd start an FYI/Review Thread here on my rifle I bought in April. It was new from Billings Gunsmiths in Billings MT via a gun show table. Out the door price was about $425 NIB.

Took it out twice trying to find loads and got pretty close the second time. I figured it was due for the ultra Rossi cleaning they all seem to need. I had cleaned it before without full dissassembly so it was about 50% there. Well when I disassembled I was in for some nasty suprises.

Whomever assembled the rifle clearly didnt give a darn about anything to include the safety of who shot it.

Cosmeticly the rifle is OK out of the box with so-so fitting and generic super stained wood. Most of the screws heads were damaged, and I already intended to call Rossi for some new ones. But for $400 its what I expected.

The real eye openers were the massive grooves cut in the barrel and tube for screw clearance. The magazine tube was screwed almost 1/4 to the left of the barrel and the set screw hammered into the barrel. This placed the whole tube out of wack and the installer's idea of a fix was to cut into the barrel and jam it together. Reassembly was almost impossible with the screws in the handguard being off 3/8" to "fit".[smilie=b:

The rear band screw clearanced area measures as follows (OD=Outside diameter in inches):
OD barrel @ cut .6655
OD barrel @ cut mearsured in cut .5890
Cut deapth = .0765
Wall thickness at cut w/o cut=.0970
Remaining metal=.0205!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW that blew my mind and I was on the phone with Taurus International the next day. I was on the phone over 45 minutes with two folks and another 25 on hold. They refused to pay shipping at the cost of $42. I called back the next day and played that game again and got them to send me a shipping lable this time. CSR Erin was pretty decent to deal with. I placed a detailed typed problem explination and resolution document in with the rifle.

The rifle went out a few days later (no FEDEX hub locally) and sat in limbo for a few weeks. The Taurus website to see your repair status is a fraud as its not updated correctly and my rifle showed complete the same day FEDEX dropped it off.

I opened the box and found paperwork saying the rifle was evaluated and test fired, no gunsmith signature. The rifle was jammed in the stock box poorly with some paper thrown in. More cosmetic damage now. I called and got the repair notes from cusomer support and they had the gunsmith as replacing the forarm. Well I had marked three little dots into the first one to make sure, and they were still there. The magazine tube had been cranked on with bronze pliers and looked terrible now. Barrel was untouched.

As you can immagine I called back and got the "Hey buddy, we looked at it" style of customer disservice you can only get from the worst companies. They refused to transfer me to anybody else. Take it or leave it. I got another service ticket and shipping lable. Back in the box it went and off Florida.

I tried to get a hold of the new CEO who makes lots of satisfaction guarentees. Nope so I put some of this issue onto Taurus International's Facebook page. I was called by the FB moderator Tammy the next day. She got my rifle prioritized and to a senior gunsmith in 5 days. The senior gunsmith then checked it and sent it to a review board.

Tammy calls me weekly to her credit. However due to the hostile corperate policies can tell me nothing. I've asked for the gunsmith's notes, they will not give them out. I ask for time lines, the board meets three times a week and I'm in que. Maybe next week (thats a lot of junk firarms!). I ask for refund since this is now August and we started this is April....thats not our policy Sir. She is trying to keep me informed and satisfied so I try not to take it out on her. Taurus International is making her take the brunt of manufacturing and repair devision's incompitance.

My biggest worry is that it will pass thier QC again and get shipped back to me in even worse shape. When they say they don't cover cosmetic damage they mean it even when they damage it! I wont feel right about selling it and putting more money into a new barrel seems like polishing a turd. I really dont know.

I love my 92 and had high hopes for this Rio Grande. I just doubt anything would make me order another Braztech firearm again. My Elk tag starts in 3 weeks, looks like the Rio Grande will not be going with me.

[g5m]

Well, that certainly makes me rethink a potential purchase.

[nagantguy]

I really hope they make you happy.and I also hope your rifle comes back in fighting form. And I hope yours was a fluke cause I am about to plunk money down on one. Any one else have trouble with the Rio Grande?

[fouronesix]

Good info and thanks for sharing. Sure makes the original Winchesters look good not to mention the Browning and Winchester Miroku repros. Heck, the Marlin 95s hardly ever have that many booboos.

[jsheyn]

You know, for the last couple of years I was a defender of Taurus everytime some one at the range called it Junk.... I recently sent back 3 of the 4 taurus's I have for repair. when they get back from gunsmiths they are going away and so will my business.

I had to pay $40 for each gun to ship to them they pay to ship back.
I have one last taursu 1911 that cant make it through an entire clip without jamming. Once that one is resolved it too will get sold and I'll buy springfield and never look back...



In your case you say you expected it for $400...I dont know about you, but I work dam hard for $400. My wife can buy alot of diapers and baby formula for $400. they should not be peddling that kind of **** service and excpect people to drop hard greenbacks on it.


I feel your pain man!

[joec]

Funny isn't it as I recently bought a RG 45-70 also and was one of the best finished guns I've ever owned both inside and out. I only had to loosen up the loading gate as that would flat tear up your finger. Recently dismantled the whole gun to make the wood work look better and it came apart perfectly it also went together perfectly. I've put about 250 rounds off various bullets through it since I bought it as well with it eating everything. I also have a 92 in 45 Colt which the day I got it wouldn't feed properly. Called Rossi got a fed ex label and sent it back. Total turn around time was 6 business days and that was 3 years ago with well over 1500 rounds through it from black powder to heavy hunting loads. I also own a Taurus Raging Bull in 454, PT 92, PT 911 and a PT 111 Pro with no failures or problem in the years I've owned all but the Raging bull which I got 3 months ago.

[NVScouter]

I expected a cosmeticly so-so rifle that needed some polishing for $400....not a paperweight.

My 92 needed zero to shoot and perform well. It's fit is wonderful, thats what I hoped for with this rifle.

I'd heard the Taurus rumblings in the past and was quick to defend them until now. The barrel may get through 10 rounds of factory winchester 300g (the factory proof load) at minimum pressure but it will begin developing microfractures. Sooner than later it will fail right where my hand is and tward the spare ammo in the tube.

For Taurus International to get it through assembly is bad, to have it checked by thier "gunsmith" and still be bad is criminal.

I know not all Braztech guns are bad, some are pure beauty. But, if you get a bad one buy another gun for hunting season and hold onto your socks its a long ride.

[EOD3]

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.

Crappy customer service isn't just for South America, Ruger made a permanent enemy of me a long time ago.

[enoch59]

I bought a Rossi 38/357 lever from a friend of mine about five years ago. I am a lever nut but I couldn't afford a decent one ie. Marlin, Uberti, etc. Anyway my friend and I would go out and shoot and shoot and shoot 158 grainers with incredible accuracy up to 100 + yards often. I would do the reloading with 7.8 grs. of Power Pistol topped with 158 Gold Dots. Just a super load. I had one problem though. My rifle would break ejectors like candy. Each one broken was a cost turnaround of about $100-125 each time and over three years I had gone through 7 or 8 of them. I had sent my rifle to all of the top gunsmiths in the country to get it fixed but to no avail. Oh, it was super fast. It had the finest trigger. It was boss looking. I had an inventory of almost 1000 rounds of ammo for it. It was a buck killer with nothing but head shots every time. But, the last ejector went after just six rounds of 38 special !! That was it for me. I'll NEVER buy another Rossi. I've also judged Taurus weapons and found them lacking and so I would never buy one of them even though I've heard mixed reports.
NVScouter, I'm sorry that you've had problems with your Rio Grande. It is shameful to hear about such things. Thank you for reporting it. Next time, buy a Marlin.

[blikseme300]

Not even the worst Remlins were ever as bad as these knock offs. Good used Marlins are still fairly available and I recommend these to anyone who is interested on getting into lever action rifles.

[dgslyr]

I had a similar experience with a Rossi 92 in 357. took it to the range the first time and couldn't hit the paper at 50 yds.Got a bigger piece of paper.about 12" left and 18" high at 50 yds.A straight edge showed the barrel bent to the left and up like a bow string on a recurve with warped limbs.Sent it back.2 months it came back with a taller front sight sticking out of the dovetail .125" to the left.Sent it back. 3 months later it came back with the front sight centered in the barrel dovetail.Still couldn't hit the paper at 50 yds.Sent it back.When they called I said give me my money back.They said no.I said give me another rifle.They said OK.When I got the new one I put it on Gunbroker and sold it the next day to an exporter who had sold it to someone in Austrailia.
The conclusion I came to after 9 months is that they are incapable of fixing anything beyond parts replacement.They have no one there that can determine that the barrel was so far from being straight and screwed into the receiver at an angle.Bought a used Marlin 357 and went on my silhouette shooting way never to even look at Rossi junk again.I know of some Rossi revolvers that blew apart with factory ammo right out of the box.But that's another post.

[nekshot]

Very interesting. I really was interested in this new 336 on the block but now the mossberg is back out front on the must have list! Kinda prefer the winchester look any how.

[flint_knapper]

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.

Crappy customer service isn't just for South America, Ruger made a permanent enemy of me a long time ago.

Bill Ruger pissed on everyone who owns a gun when he stood next to the brady's. Even after he and his family has left the co.
I still find it hard to even pick up a "new" ruger.

[NVScouter]

I think the parts would have made a decent rifle if Braztech had compitant people assembling them.

Ruger has taken amazing care of me. S&W did a so-so job, wont say good or bad. While DPMS was as bad as Braztech/Taurus/Rossi but at least they give you it will take 3-6 months to fix your rifle.

18 days until Elk opens. Guess my CZ550 Safari or one of my H&R 45-70s will be going with me.

[EOD3]

You know those Ruger advertisements that SWEAR the won't do anything to affect the collector value of your gun if you have the "new and improved" parts installed. I figured I might sell it some day so I sent it to them. The gunsmith (right!) at Ruger managed to put a 3/8" gash in the loading gate and they FIRED 3 CHAMBERS. At the time, the PRISTINE gun in its original box with the original anti-corrosion paper was worth approximately $1500 dollars. When they "fixed" it, it was worth about $300. Rugers position, "It's our policy to test fire EVERY gun".

I sold the gun because I couldn't stand to look at it.

[dubber123]

I would say I'm surprised, but I try to not lie.. Your experience closely matches mine, right down to the damage done at the "repair" facility. I work hard for my money, and have decided to not willingly throw away any more of it.

[g5m]

NVScouter I hope you will keep us informed.

[NVScouter]

I got a call to update me yesterday.

No update its still waiting for review board. Too many bad firearms to get through, they aren't making their timelines. Maybe next week it'll get looked at.

[izzyjoe]

That's why i won't buy new guns, i've seen a couple of Rio Grande rifles. i was considering one in 45-70, untill i laid hands on one. and in my opinion they should be thrown in the Rio Grande!

[warboar_21]

I'm sorry to hear about your trouble. I had wondered what had happened since you and I bought ours around the same time.
My rifle has worked great and I haven't had a single problem. The finish on it is about as good as my R92 45 Colt. I haven't shot it since late May due to the 100+ degree temps. It is the one gun that I am most excited about to shoot when the temps come down.

[NVScouter]

I know I was excited about this but no joy. Its been living in sunny Florida or traveling across the nation via FEDEX since April. I've very glad yours works well. That the Taurus/Rossi/Braztech thing some work great, others are junk. Its a **** shoot and I lost.


I'm sorry to hear about your trouble. I had wondered what had happened since you and I bought ours around the same time.
My rifle has worked great and I haven't had a single problem. The finish on it is about as good as my R92 45 Colt. I haven't shot it since late May due to the 100+ degree temps. It is the one gun that I am most excited about to shoot when the temps come down.

[NVScouter]

Well Taurus International just called me a few times today. Once before, once during, and once after review board meeting. I found out that the review board are not made up of gunsmiths but manufacturing/sales supervisors or some such. They wanted to know if it was my tampering of the forend/tube that looks so crappy. It was my pleasure to tell them that was the first "fix" thier gunsmith made. I saw it and plopped it back in the FEDEX box upon seeing it.

They were so fixated on the handguard that wasnt the issue it made me sick. They determined the rifle did not meet waranty repair criteria and is being sent back unrepaired.

I was able to finally get a hold of Billing's Gunsmiths the company I purchased it from today. I explained the situation and even though they will not help I was told that I needed a minimum of .005 wall thickness to meet safety standards. As I have a .00293 wall thickness my small claims suite should be a no brainer. I intend to have it magnafluxed when it gets back and consult my attorney about civil action. I doubt that will go anywhere over a $400 rifle however but maybe I'll get enough in small claims to cover a rebarrel.

So Taurus International fails again to be honest, have a usefull waranty, or produce a safe product.

[NVScouter]

I'm now thinking about what to do with my club (this does go with Taurus International's catch phrase CARRY ON. Thats all this thing is good for since firing it isnt an option).

A rebarrel maybe with a longer octagon barrel in 26-28" apeals to me but I'd hate to blow $500 on a $400 rifle. Is that action worth using as a builder action?

I've also thought about sleeving it to 38-55 or something but I have no idea how costly reworking the guts to feed the 38-55 would be.

Ideas?

[fouronesix]

I've noticed for a lot of years now that when I see a gun at a distance- no matter whether it be American, Italian, South American, wherever- if it looks like the manufacturer made more use of the buffing wheel than on the basic "guts" of the gun...... look very closely and look out.

[g5m]

Well Taurus International just called me a few times today. Once before, once during, and once after review board meeting. I found out that the review board are not made up of gunsmiths but manufacturing/sales supervisors or some such. They wanted to know if it was my tampering of the forend/tube that looks so crappy. It was my pleasure to tell them that was the first "fix" thier gunsmith made. I saw it and plopped it back in the FEDEX box upon seeing it.

They were so fixated on the handguard that wasnt the issue it made me sick. They determined the rifle did not meet waranty repair criteria and is being sent back unrepaired.

I was able to finally get a hold of Billing's Gunsmiths the company I purchased it from today. I explained the situation and even though they will not help I was told that I needed a minimum of .005 wall thickness to meet safety standards. As I have a .00293 wall thickness my small claims suite should be a no brainer. I intend to have it magnafluxed when it gets back and consult my attorney about civil action. I doubt that will go anywhere over a $400 rifle however but maybe I'll get enough in small claims to cover a rebarrel.

So Taurus International fails again to be honest, have a usefull waranty, or produce a safe product.

Sorry that was their response.

That simply doesn't make sense to me.
The liability alone would make me want to replace the rifle, as either the manufacturer or the seller.

[longranger]

45-70"s are Shiloh,Browning, some Marlins,Winchester even Mirouku C.Sharps and a few others not necessarily in that order, Rossi,Taurus are who ?

[double8]

delete comment

[double8]

It used to be years ago that you only needed to look at the bore, fire a test round to check headspace to assure a good rifle. They were all made well because the companies had pride in their product. Remington, Winchester, Savage, Ithaca and that upstart Ruger were tops. My 1902 1886 Xtra Lightweight Winchester in 45-70 is a work of art and still going strong. Pay extra for a good old gun....it's worth every dollar.

[double8]

Just talked to a friend who has a "Judge".....his comment.."Taurus is mostly bull****".

[clownbear69]

First off Ill say Im sorry you had to experience. If I was still working with an FFL and sold you a gun I would've told you my experiences that I've had with BrazTech. To Start off with, the company is literally a 50% success rate with no middle ground. You either have had people that had nothing but great service with their CS and/or firearms and the other half with nothing but ****. Some people I've sold to wanted a one of their firearms because "It has a lifetime warranty" I always say "A Life-time warranty is for companies that don't trust their firearm but still want to sell it". In the lines of experiences, I have to send many firearms back to Florida for them to work on. About half of those I had to resend it because they didn't do the job the first point. And some of those half had to be resent a third time. The point is I wouldn't trust them ever based on what Ive sold and what has come back. The biggest thing that Ive seen comeback to get resent is the rossi revolvers. The firing pin in on the hammer and hinged, seen it break of about 5 of the 8 ive sold to customers.

Bottom line if I ever get my FFL going, anything from BrazTech will not be sold by me and invest in similar priced firearms to sell.

[Cosmiceyes]

In the mid 80's Rossi made a very good copy of the J-frame S&W. I had them in my shop for sale,and one I owned. I knew they weren't plus-p for strength,but a 38 will find it's way through a winter wool coat,and a large muscle mass to the vitals.So they were dependable. Taurus came on the market,and did it's best to flood it with EA type cr@p. Bad metal to metal fit;rough actions;misfires;and metal fatigue to the point of exploding. I had the Rooster or whatever Taurus made of the 22 LR Chipmunk style rifle for children in the shop. It was new in the box. I didn't know it was a Taurus. I ran a cleaning patch down the barrel,visual inspect the bore,and loaded one round in the gun. Pointed the gun in the pipe to the sand chamber in the floor. I pulled the trigger.I didn't feel the pain right away as the nerve damage to my right arm is severe. What I saw was a lot of smoke to the right of the bolt action. As I looked towards the action I saw blood spraying from my right inside arm. (top of the wrist 5 inches back) Put the gun on the bench as I went to the emergency room. Upon my return the next day,as surgery was required to remove the metal fragments from my arm,I looked at the bolt area. The head space was so bad there was 3/16 of a inch of space open in front of the bolt. I called the distributor telling him his problem. He wanted the gun back right away. I said he could get it from the judicial system if they wanted to give it back. I called a attorney,and was rewarded with 2 things.First all the little guns were to be gathered up,and shipped back, and lots of money.
My point is,"WHO" has to get hurt before quality counts with Taurus? Seems they didn't learn well then,and as most of ya'lls experiences still don't want to or care.
Lever actions for the most part have a "LOT" of moving parts. I don't see where they can be cheaply made. If you look at the bolt action market it is way different. Ruger;Marlin;Mossberg;Savage are all in the 350-399.00 price range. Where does Ruger sell most of their guns? The Blackhawk,it's simple unlike double actions.
I am looking at used Marlins to take the place of my Browning 92 in .357. They cost more than a new Rossi/Taurus/Brazil;Tech,but I want to enjoy my fun,and not gamble on my life!!!!!

[double8]

Just be careful of a new RemLin....my Stainless 795 was a ***. It stayed with me two weeks [one week too many]

[enoch59]

Used Marlins in 357 are not easy to come by in my neck of the woods. My son sold his a few months back for $550 and it was mint. It killed me but I didn't have the dough. The 357 lever is my favorite gun to play with and I can shoot up a few hundred rounds a day every day playing. I miss not having one. The Marlins are so easy to work on too. Oh well, sooner or later I will get my hands on a cowboy ltd. Hopefully I'll be able to lift it up when I do !

[wrench man]

Between my Rossi 62SA and Taurus Gaucho (LONG GONE! THANK GOD!) and my brothers Raging Bull I'll NEVER!! own another Brazilian made firearm EVER!
They have a Rossi 92 45 Colt on the rack at the LGS, it's been there for months, I never even picked it up to look at it!
I'll stick to my Marlin levers and Ruger wheel guns!, but I do have one Uberti wheel gun and it's a FINE revolver too!

[Dean2]

Never been tempted to buy a Rossi and after reading this I wouldn't take one for free. Sorry to all of you for your troubles.

[flint_knapper]

cimarron is what folks who shoot western events sport alot now.
more $$ but worth it.

[Jeff H]

Not just to whine, but to add to the compilation of experiences.....

I too once defended Taurus whenever someone trashed them, but then, most people I have heard trash them in person did so without any first-hand experience. I have owned several Taurus revolvers that were excellent guns, mostly .44 Specials and a couple .22 LRs. One beautiful little 4" .32 mag with very oversized chambers - new Starline brass split on the first resizing and the loads were not even close to max. I had a friend who shot a Rossi 3" 5-shot .38 in the mid-eighties and I wanted that gun in the worst way. It was a great little gun. I had a Rossi 3", 5-shot .44 Special and it shot jacketed well but shot cast very poorly. All the dimensions checked out and I sold it to a fella who didn't care because he didn't shoot cast.

My warranty experiences with the two date to the mid-nineties. The Rossi .44 Special went back for something which I forget and they fixed something (which I also forget) but it wasn't what it went in for. The .32 Mag. went back for the oversized chambers and they "replaced the front sight," which was machined as part of the barrel and it had the original barrel when it returned so I don't know what they actually did but they didn't even mention the chambers. It went to a fella who did not reload.

My Rossi '92 is a sweet little full-fledged turn out of the box. I won't even start trying to remember what all was wrong with it but I learned a lot about the design in the long, slow process of straightening it all out. It was the worst gun out of the box I think I have ever had. I did not even try to get their help. On other forums which are more about levers or Rossis, the consensus seems to be that it's 50/50 and you should always only buy one you csan handle and check out personally. If you get a turd, which seems a high probability, send it to Steve's Gunz or buy his video. At least that's what they'll tell you. I skipped the video to see if I could figure it out myself. I did and mine took about 20% tuning and 80% fixing production mistakes.

The second worst gun out of the box I ever bought was a brand new Smith & Wesson 4" 624. I won't go into that either but I will say that when I called Smith, they were very accommodating. Back then, I was able to ship it to them myself and there were no hassles. They fixed nine of the ten items on the punch list, one of which was an old Ruger trick where the stamping on the barrel could be read from the inside. The rough recoil plate was rougher than previously and the cylinder wouldn't cycle with rounds chambered. I fixed that and cleaned all the buffing/polishing gunk out that they left in the action and it shot very well thereafter.

Recently, I bought a Rock Island Arsenal Compact .45. I've had a lot of .45s from Colt, Kimber, Thompson (1911s) and EAA or CZ, Ruger,... and I was nervous about the RIA because it was cheap and I had read bad things. That cheap little .45 runs like an old Singer Sewing Machine and is utterly reliable. As I understand, they do have absolutely first-rate service with a real 1911 'smith stateside but I have had no reason to use it.

I've had really nice Rugers and a couple real dogs. They always seemed to find something to argue about on service but usually eventually did right by me in the end but I have never tried to get them to address bore/frame constrictions or undersized throats in the revolvers, which I prefer to have done by myself or another trusted party. Never had an H&R that needed anything when new but fixed a few that were broken before I got them. I did have one Remington-era H&R rifle and it worked fine but had some cosmetic issues. I know - it's an H&R and I was complaining about cosmetics - it was that bad. Of all The Charter Arms revolvers I have owned, only one - a Charco-era .32 Mag., was not up to snuff and it just didn't shoot up to my expectations but functioned properly. In fairness, it had a 1 7/8" barrel and shot as well as many would expect it to, but when my wife could regularly (every time) put five shots into two to two and a half inches at twenty five yards with a $145 stainless Undercover, I felt my .32 should have been able to do better than what it did. CVA has never let me down either, so I have had some really good luck with "cheap" guns and I have had some really bad luck with some not so cheap guns.

My brother has a Taurus .357 which is a very nice gun and my Dad had a beautiful .45 Colt Gaucho which seemed VERY nice but had a minor problem with the base pin retaining system. He got suckered into sending it in for that minor parts-replacement under warranty and Taurus DESTROYED it! That was how they described what they did with it due to a "safety issue" upon which they refused to elaborate. He was allowed to pick any (literally ANY) new Taurus in exchange and ended up with a 4" Tracker in .41 Mag with which he was not at all happy. The worst part is that I traded two good guns off (older Charter .38s) for that Gaucho because he wanted it so badly. Now, we're both out. That one was THE single worst service-related rip-off I personally recall.

I am neither defending nor praising Taurus/Rossi - just adding to the list of experiences - good, bad or indifferent. If I ever bought another Rossi lever, I would definitely want to shoot it before paying for it. The old Taurus and Rossi .44 Special revolvers I have had were sold or traded because they were too heavy and bulky for me for what they were but they were nice guns.

[fecmech]

Judging by this thread I have been lucky indeed. A few years back I bought a Taurus/Rossi 92 carbine in .357 and it has been trouble free from the gitgo. I have well over 5K rds through it. I liked it so well I bought another Braztec 92 in .357 with the 24" octagon barrel and had the same results, no problems and many thousands of rounds down the pipe. I have had no experience with Taurus repair so I can't comment on that. I did not do this with my guns but would recommend others do it before purchase. I would load some dummy cartridges deprimed with no powder to take to the store to check feed and function. I would leave the primers out so there is no question regarding safety and save hassles with the clerk.
Similar to JeffH's odyssey with his Rossi 92 I had one with a Winchester 94 AE in .357. That rifle taught me more than I ever wanted to know about Winchester 94's. Life itself is a crapshoot.

[NVScouter]

Well I had it checked locally by a respected gunsmith and got a slightly better answer.

He told me it is safe to use with standard trapdoor loads since the clearanced area is midway down the barrel at the band. Its his professional opinion that at that point the pressurecurve is too low to cause a barrel blow out. I also looked into small claims and it looks like a no-go there. My option is to go with a big suite and pay out the nose to get very little in return. So it looks like Taurus International effectively got me.

I asked about it being used as a builder, and he plus another local gunsmith both refused to do work on it. So I shot 6 rounds through it hit the 100y target 4" high center and decided I never want to fire another round from it. Its up for sale at a smoking price since I'm being honest about it living at Taurus/Braztech since April.

I don't really hate much but I'd do the happy dance if Taurus burnt to the ground............

[KCSO]

Most of the guns you buy today are basicly KIT guns. You get the gun as parts put together and then you make it into a real gun. It's hit or miss til you find one that works. Charter Arms, Taurus, Rossi, EEA, ect all need work before they are functional. Ruger revolvers are noted for undersized cylinder throats and rough forcing cones. The other fact of life it that there is NO factory service any more. Most of the doofus' at FACTORY SERVICE don't know which is the dangerous end. It started years ago with Bangor Punta and has spread through out the industry.

[Dean2]

Well I had it checked locally by a respected gunsmith and got a slightly better answer.

He told me it is safe to use with standard trapdoor loads since the clearanced area is midway down the barrel at the band. Its his professional opinion that at that point the pressurecurve is too low to cause a barrel blow out. I also looked into small claims and it looks like a no-go there. My option is to go with a big suite and pay out the nose to get very little in return. So it looks like Taurus International effectively got me.

I asked about it being used as a builder, and he plus another local gunsmith both refused to do work on it. So I shot 6 rounds through it hit the 100y target 4" high center and decided I never want to fire another round from it. Its up for sale at a smoking price since I'm being honest about it living at Taurus/Braztech since April.

I don't really hate much but I'd do the happy dance if Taurus burnt to the ground............

For what little you will get out of it I might suggest a better use for the gun is to give it to someone who is teaching a lot of gun courses and let them use it as an example of how even new guns may not be too well built and pass on the stories of the poor warranty and service. I think that would be one very good way to spread the word about Taurus, with hard proof to demonstrate it.

If you want to expand that, start collecting the thousands of examples of Taurus's **** repairs. You will have the basis of a very good class action suit. Taurus may not be afraid of one of you but a class action suit is a whole other ball of string.

[double8]

I would just call headquarters and ask the receptionist if I could have the number and extension of their legal department so I could pass it on to my to my lawyer. I've done this on a few occasions.....talk about getting some attention! I just don't have enough time left to screw around with air heads.

[enoch59]

I think we've all pretty much agreed that life isn't just a **** shoot when dealing with the service dept. at Taurus. Because someone else mentioned them I can say from first hand experience that RIA is the most excellent company I've ever dealt with and I was in sales and service for thirty years. I had a 45 1911 inexpensive model from them and after 4-5 thousand rounds through it I started to notice some flaking in the finish around the hammer. I called them and they told me that they don't do any finish work in the US so just send the gun back and they'll send me a new one ! I asked if I could upgrade and I ended up with a tactical model with a front glow sight with new grips and it ended up costing me $75. I was so impressed I tried to get a job with them but I didn't want to work in Nevada. You can't go wrong with Rock Island Armory.

[pls1911]

Have a Ruger #1 in .416 Remington which split the especially pretty stock after a very few rounds of low pressure cast bullets.
Ruger customer service was cordial, and had me send it back for replacement. I included a hand wirtten note which requested the repairing gunsmith to please try to match the georgeous wood of the fore arm.
He didn't..... and I am glad.
The returned rifle had a breathtakingly beautiful, furniture grade, museum quality stock perfectly fitted....no charge.
The only problem is that a showpiece of that level never gets shot again.... I have plenty of iron to shoot, but only one lady like that particular Ruger.

[monge]

Just got back from the range with my remlin guide gun one inch at 100yards took the gun apart when I bought it and cleaned up some rough edges. Marlin is alive and well I have a jm xlr in also 45-70 that does not shoot that well !

[Ramjet-SS]

Go buy the Henry 45-70 it is excellent gun with a great customer oriented company behind it.

[Lead Fred]

Like with muzzle loaders, Third world craftsmanship, is far below My standards.
Besides the 1892 is so inferior to the 1894 & 1895 designs.

[Tbury]

Go buy the Henry 45-70 it is excellent gun with a great customer oriented company behind it.
I own two Henrys one in .22 mag and a big boy in 44 mag. Great guns, smooth actions, and I would buy one in 45-70 if I did not already own serial no 98 Marlin 1895 from 1972.

[hpdrifter]

sorry to hear of your situation.

I turned down a 92 that a local gun shop had received. Never went and looked at it. They called me when it came in because I was in the market for a 357 lever gun. I didn't realize they had 1 in 38 twist when I called that gun shop. Now, I'm glad I didn't go look at it and I'm NOT in the market for another Rossi. I do have a 92 in 45 colt that I did follow a famous DVD instruction for.
The internals were somewhat less than impressive, but it does function and shoot pretty well.
It will be the last.

[double8]

Just reading through the September American Rifleman and saw an ad with the face of the Taurus CEO Mark Kresser looking back at me. Last time I saw that look was on a "trust me" used car salesman.

[TXGunNut]

Good used Marlins are a bit harder to find these days but worth the time & effort. I'd still like to have a Rossi 92 but would probably be better off with a Winchester or Marlin.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I will take a used Marlin over the other guns mentioned . JMHO

[Lead Fred]

Most of the guns you buy today are basicly KIT guns.

Sure wish that Remlin, would just sell me the parts, SO I know my kit gun was put together correctly