Siamese chambering????

[mikeym1a]

I have an old type 66 Siamese Mauser in 8X52. Cartridges can be made for it, but I would like something a little less exotic. Looking through different books, the only thing I see that would work would be the 8mm/.338WinMag. That case seem a bit long, so, anyone have any ideas? Also, the barrel is ringed, about at the front barrel band. The barrel seem straight, and the rifling is really clean. Any thoughts from anyone? Any positive thoughts from anyone? :smile:

[NVScouter]

Do you want a rechamber and keep the barrel/bore? Why not have it rebored to 336-06 or 35 Whelen if the 338WM is too long.

[Boerrancher]

Buy you a 458 barrel and make a 45-70. The one that I have loves a case full of 2400 behind a 405 grain cast if you are tough enough to handle the recoil. Mine also has a gain twist rifling. I have no idea who made the barrel for my father as he built the rifle when I was a toddler 40 some years ago. The load I listed was his favorite. It shot well and kept people from wanting to shoot it once word got out about how hard it kicked.

Best wishes

Joe

[leadman]

45-70 was a common conversion of these rifles years ago. I had one that I sold before conversion when I was short on cash about 40 years ago. With a ringed barrel I would not rechamber it unless it could be shortened.
There is also the 8X58R Danish that brass and dies are available from Buffalo Arms. I have one in a Rolling Block and it shoots real well.
Brass can easily be made from 45-90 for full neck length brass, or less expensive 45-70 for short neck length brass. I haven't seen any difference in accuracy between the 2 neck lengths. Lots of info on this cartridge in the single shot section.

[mikeym1a]

Yeah. Lots to consider. Anyone know what thread pitch the Siamese Mauser uses?:?:

[mroliver77]

Believe it or not, they are getting rare in stock configuration. Depending on condition you might be better to leave it alone and make 20 or 40 cases up and enjoy the history.
J

[mikeym1a]

Believe it or not, they are getting rare in stock configuration. Depending on condition you might be better to leave it alone and make 20 or 40 cases up and enjoy the history.
J

It's not exactly stock. The stock has been refinished, and repaired. The breech dust cover is missing. To me it is just a shooter.

[john hayslip]

There were two cases - the most common is the 8x52R and you can tell if it is this one if the rear sight appears to be ground off a bit, which can be made from 45-70. It ain't easy - I spent yesterday afternoon playing with it. Dies from C&H are pretty reasonable. What I found was 1) anneal,2) lubricate and run the case in far enough to turn in the front a little 3) anneal 4) relubricate and run in a little further 5) reanneal 6) lube and run in the rest of the way{{ looking back I'd reverse the next two steps}} 7) reduce rim size to .559-.560 and 8) trim to 2.05. I anneal by getting a pail of water and holding the brass by the rim, heating the front of the case in the blue part of the flame (if you use the little white part of the flame you get a copper only spot and ruin the case) until the case gets too hot to hold and then dropping it in the water. All of the above needed to preclude shoulder bumps and split necks. I was using Starline brass. I have a folder of articles on the rifle if you're interested.
Mine is original, complete with dust cover, except missing the cleaning rod.
I'm going to do about 22 cases for it and stop. I was getting some sort of procedure going and just made two that worked - I screwed up about 6 cases until I got to this point. The hard thing for me was trimming. I think it would probably be a good idea to reduce the length before you reduce the rim diameter as no holder I have will work on that odd diameter to hold it in the trimmer. I wound up using a Lyman drill press set up - I still had to hold case while trimming - but my drill press has a circular (as opposed to a screw) depth setter that isn't reliable.

[bikerbeans]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-29254.html

[rr2241tx]

Making 8x52R from Hornady 8x56R Hungarian is much easier than starting with 45-70 brass. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, ran the brass into the CH4D sizing die with the expander removed, trimmed to length on an RCBS trimmer, deburred the mouth, then replaced the powder and bullet from the original ammo. Worked great, shot to the sights. You can buy Prvi brass and bullets from Grafs if you prefer to go that way. Shooting boolits may take some looking around to find a suitably sized mold since the bore is unique to the Siamese and Hungarian rounds.

[JeffinNZ]

Is a Siamese chambering like two chambers stuck together?

[mikeym1a]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-29254.html
That's really interesting. That's real close to the small ring mauser. As big as this gun is, I figured that it would be bigger. Thanks!!!

[mikeym1a]

Making 8x52R from Hornady 8x56R Hungarian is much easier than starting with 45-70 brass. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, ran the brass into the CH4D sizing die with the expander removed, trimmed to length on an RCBS trimmer, deburred the mouth, then replaced the powder and bullet from the original ammo. Worked great, shot to the sights. You can buy Prvi brass and bullets from Grafs if you prefer to go that way. Shooting boolits may take some looking around to find a suitably sized mold since the bore is unique to the Siamese and Hungarian rounds.

Very interesting. That's what I was wondering. I had started a search through 'The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions' to see what might be close that I might use. I never thought to slug the bore. I assumed that since it was an 8mm, it was .323. That is what the 20 rounds I had made for it from 45-70 were loaded with. I even took an old 'Lee Loader' in 8x57, and trimmed it down and bored it out ever so carefully at a friends shop. When I got it all the way in to the rim, and the neck was not quite fully sized (it lacked about 1/8in full travel on the neck.) I stopped. I didn't want to press my luck. I think I fired 5 round through gun for function check, and then reloaded the cases, and put them all away. As I am semi retired, I apparently have too much time for rumination, and these old projects keep poking me for attention. :shock:

[mikeym1a]

Is a Siamese chambering like two chambers stuck together?

:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[mikeym1a]

There were two cases - the most common is the 8x52R and you can tell if it is this one if the rear sight appears to be ground off a bit, which can be made from 45-70. It ain't easy - I spent yesterday afternoon playing with it. Dies from C&H are pretty reasonable. What I found was 1) anneal,2) lubricate and run the case in far enough to turn in the front a little 3) anneal 4) relubricate and run in a little further 5) reanneal 6) lube and run in the rest of the way{{ looking back I'd reverse the next two steps}} 7) reduce rim size to .559-.560 and 8) trim to 2.05. I anneal by getting a pail of water and holding the brass by the rim, heating the front of the case in the blue part of the flame (if you use the little white part of the flame you get a copper only spot and ruin the case) until the case gets too hot to hold and then dropping it in the water. All of the above needed to preclude shoulder bumps and split necks. I was using Starline brass. I have a folder of articles on the rifle if you're interested.
Mine is original, complete with dust cover, except missing the cleaning rod.
I'm going to do about 22 cases for it and stop. I was getting some sort of procedure going and just made two that worked - I screwed up about 6 cases until I got to this point. The hard thing for me was trimming. I think it would probably be a good idea to reduce the length before you reduce the rim diameter as no holder I have will work on that odd diameter to hold it in the trimmer. I wound up using a Lyman drill press set up - I still had to hold case while trimming - but my drill press has a circular (as opposed to a screw) depth setter that isn't reliable.

Shortly after I got this gun years ago, G&A magazine came out with a very indepth article detailing how to make with with materials available. And there were 2 cartridges. IIRC, the first was 8X50, and the later 8x52. If I remember correctly, a 45-70 case was run through a .375 die, then though a .33WCF die, and then through a an 8mm Lebel die for neck sizing. And along the way, it was trimmed for length, and the rim trimmed. Just seemed to me that there ought to be a case out there that wouldn't be that much trouble. Your way is easier, some. Still more work than I really want to do.

[BAGTIC]

Years ago I saw a Siamese Mauser conversion at a local range that was IIRC a 35-348 Improved.

[rr2241tx]

I have a very nicely done 45-70 sporter that was done by Federal Arms in about 1974. The first round feeds reasonably well, second round feeds better and the third round ... well if you need a third round maybe you should have aimed one of the first two. I tried substituting a +10% magazine spring from Brownells to see if that would help lift the heavy nose of the 45-70 and it actually made the feeding problem worse. The 8x52R I made from 8x56R feed and function perfectly in the original rifle. I think if I was starting out to make another sporter from a Siamese, I would seriously consider a TJ liner in 338 and neck up some 8x56R brass to hold them. That way there would be a lot more choices of bullets and it would likely be easy to make it feed reliably. Prvi brass so far looks to be of good quality but having only the Prvi bullet available in .330 is somewhat limiting.

[mikeym1a]

My gun came up on the 'Forgotten Weapons' website, and I got curious. Mine was originally the type 46, with the 8X50R chambering. They almost all got converted to the 8X52 chambering when the Siams updated their machine guns. The rear sight ramp had been milled down. I looked through the bore, and said 'that really looks rough', and proceeded to clean it. Got a lot of black gunk out using a brass bore brush and Nitro Solvent. The rifling is really quite sharp. Only it's got that ring about at the bayonet lug. I've seen a barrel for it on ebay. I'm gonna go back and see if I can get it, and keep it in original config. In the meantime, I think I'll cut off the barrel right through the ring. If I get it right, it's already crowned! I slugged the bore and was a bit surprised. the lands are .310-.311, and the grooves are .324. That seems to be quite deep grooves, at least to me! My knee is giving me fits, and as soon as I can get out, I'm gonna load it and shoot it with paper patched boolits. If and when I get the new barrel, I'll have it installed, and use the old barrel for another project. Interesting things, these guns. Now if I only had the necessary funds...........................

[mikeym1a]

I looked in my 'closed' ebay listings and found that barrel. Emailed the guy, and he still had the barrel. I got it for $20.00 + shipping. The pics he posted show a really nice barrel. Now I need to find a buttplate for this Siamese. Anyone have one they want to part with?

[mikeym1a]

Well, the replacement barrel arrived. Now to get it installed. It is in really good shape, complete with F & R sights. The bore is shiney, and the rifling really crisp. There is some dust in the bore, but, if I was ever fired, I can't tell. (but then, I'm no expert.) I should slug the bore, just for grins and chuckles. TEE-HEE!! :-D

[madsenshooter]

So is it an 8x52 or an 8x50?

[mikeym1a]

So is it an 8x52 or an 8x50?
I haven't done a chamber cast, yet. The ad says it was a Type 44 barrel that was re-chambered for the 8X52. As the rear sight elevation ramp has been milled down, this is probably correct. The rifling is really sharp, with 95% blueing. All in all, I think I got a steel/steal. ;)

[madsenshooter]

I'd like to find an 8x50, you can make that from 7.62x54R, from what I understand.

[TreeKiller]

I'd like to find an 8x50, you can make that from 7.62x54R, from what I understand.
Yes that is what I do with mine. barrel is not very good slugged at .332 so i use Lee .338 sized to .334 or the old feller Frankenstein.