Would Appreciate Help Analyzing Target Results

[superbee]

I took my Savage 1899A (1907) to the range yesterday; it is a Savage 303 with iron sights. I tested four different boolits with a load of 25 grains of IMR 3031: Lyman 311466, Lee 309-170 FN, Lee 312-160 2R, and Lee 309-180 R.

I fired 12 rounds of each boolit type at the same target (4 different targets - 12 rounds at each target); 4 groups of 3 shots each and allowed the rifle to cool as I walked to the target to mark each group of 3.

The Lee 180 and the Lee 170FN produced the most accurate results at 50 yards (group size in inches):

Lee 170FN: 2.787, 0.833, 0.949, 1.278 (12 shots within 4.5 inch circle)

Lee 180R: 3.666, 0.888, 2.092, 2.055 (12 shots within 4 inch circle)

I aimed dead center of the bullseye for each 3 shot group. While the 170FN produced smaller 3-shot groups, all 12 holes on the 180 target were much closer together on the target. The group centers for the 170FN were spread over a wider area of the target.

So my question is, which would be the more accurate load?

[Outpost75]

Fire 10 shots all on one target and repeat with each load.

Three shot groups tell you little. There are no "lucky" 10-shot groups.

The smallest 10-shot group with the best center density is your load.

[superbee]

That makes sense - thank you Outpost75.

[MtGun44]

One comment - aiming for the center of the bullseye is not very precise unless the bullseye is quite small,
and I have trouble seeing them with irons. I suggest a 6 o'clock hold should be standard to give your
eyes the best possible aiming reference.

Bill

[superbee]

One comment - aiming for the center of the bullseye is not very precise unless the bullseye is quite small,
and I have trouble seeing them with irons. I suggest a 6 o'clock hold should be standard to give your
eyes the best possible aiming reference.

Bill

Thank you for the tip, MtGun44:smile:

[Outpost75]

What works with my old eyeballs is to run a strip of masking tape horizontally from 9:00 to 3:00 through the bull to give a vertical hold reference on that and then center the bull for windage.

[superbee]

What works with my old eyeballs is to run a strip of masking tape horizontally from 9:00 to 3:00 through the bull to give a vertical hold reference on that and then center the bull for windage.

Great idea - I will try that!

[pietro]

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One thing to keep in mind with a 6-o'clock hold, or aiming off the center of the bull: It's not a competition, so it matters little just where the bullets impact - it's the best group size that you're striving to attain, not a "score".

Sometimes, I just take one shot at a blank sheet of paper, then aim at that afterward, when shooting for "group".




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[26Charlie]

Have used 311291 with 22 gr. 4198 in this caliber for 2 to 3 inch five shot groups at 100 yd.
Regarding hunting rifles with bead front sights, I like to adjust the sights so the Point of impact is just at the top of the bead at 100 yd. Then most cast bullet loads impact at the center of the bead at 200 yd. (and at the bottom of the bead at 250 yd, although I only shoot at ram silhouettes at that range).

[Larry Gibson]

One comment - aiming for the center of the bullseye is not very precise unless the bullseye is quite small,
and I have trouble seeing them with irons. I suggest a 6 o'clock hold should be standard to give your
eyes the best possible aiming reference.

Bill

+1 along with increasing the range to 100 yards and using 10 shot groups.

Larry Gibson

[superbee]

Thank you all for your insights - greatly appreciated.

[OverMax]

Old Lyman hand book I have also states your 303 Sav has the option of another even heavier cast. The 190 gr. Lyman 311334 mold. A very nice Pointed bullet for use in a lever Savage. To answer your question.
which would be the more accurate load? Those bullets impacting closes to their bullseye. {I would say are the best to use.} Especially when open barrel sights are involved in the scenerio. As far as shooting 100 yard distance. That is an ideal distance for your rifle. But as I learned. Shooting a lesser yardage to get the rifle sighted in as best you can. Often saves time and ammo. I sight my open barrel sights in at 50 yards and then move out to the 100 yard target to see their point of impact on a 7" bullseye. Than re-tweak my barrel sights accordingly. But you do what is comfortable for you.
I'll bet you like that little squared corner lever gun. I know I like mine. Fun little rifle they are.

O/M

[Jeff82]

I have to agree with using 100-yard groups. Quite a few times I've found that cartridges that seem to shoot well at 50 yards fall apart at 100 yards. Also, a lot of times its very difficult to tell that much difference between cartridges at 50 yards.

Strange as it may sound, when testing ammo (0.357 carbine) I'll shoot 30 or 35 shots. It gives a much better sampling, if you're concerned with small differences in accuracy. Part of the reason I do it this way is that the range I shoot at works on a fifteen minute cycle of live fire and cease fires. If I shot five or ten shot groups, I wouldn't be shooting most of the time, and could never get through my typical 250 rounds per outing.

At any rate, longer distances and larger samples will help more clearly reveal the difference between cartridges.

[superbee]

Again guys, thank you for all the welcome input.

The Lyman 311334 must be a discontinued mould? It was not listed on Lyman's current web site. I know I could check eBay for one, but it seems like it is pretty tough to buy a mould there for a fair price, much less a bargain.

And I do indeed love my Savage 1899. In fact I love all Savage lever actions!

I will definitely move out to 100 yards to test these cast loads. I have sometimes experienced frustration when moving out to 100 yards to shoot cast boolits because I can't find the holes on the target - too much boolit rise or fall. I guess I need to find some backing material for my targets - big piece of cardboard or some butcher paper. (A 4X8 section of drywall would be ideal, but I'm not going to drag that out to the range :smile:)