.38-55 Short - an experiment.

[marvelshooter]

I have been playing with a 1894 Winchester in .38-55 for a while now. I have posted in different threads on this forum asking for help and have received lots of good ideas and even had a member send me some boolits to try. The problem is the chamber is not big enough to accept a cartridge loaded with a boolit large enough to seal the bore and shoot well. I even tried some pure lead and black powder. Nothing worked well enough to pursue further. I cut some old fired cases back until a .381 boolit would slip in. This turned out to be 1.375" - about 3/4" shorter than original. I loaded some pure lead slugs lubricated with a black powder lube over 6 grains of Unique. My first group shot at 50 yards measures 1 3/8". I wasn't really expecting much because of the long boolit jump but this is as good as the rifle has ever shot. :smile: Could this have been a fluke? Maybe but I am sure going to try some more and maybe some 2400 powder.

[Skipper]

A lot of guys have used this reamer to correct the problem. It cuts the mouth to .400 as it should be. Takes about 30 minutes including cleanup and factory stuff still works just fine.

For rental, they waive the deposit if you pay with a credit card.

http://4-dproducts.com/displayitem.php?rowid=441&tname=rental

[cwheel]

No need to ream it. Just get the thinner Starline Brass, problem solved. I went through a bunch of problems until using the thinner Starline, and yes, I do load .381 cast.
Chris

[rhead]

I have read in other post that making your brass by fire forming 30 30 brass will result in a round with a thinner neck area which will usually solve the problem.

This is second hand information. (My 38 55 still lives on my want list instead of in my safe).

[marvelshooter]

I have used 4-D before but did not look to see if they had something I could use here. Starline brass is a great idea but nobody has any at the moment. I have made cases from .30-30 brass and they don't chamber any better than the rest. I am tickled that I found something that works and since I have a bunch of brass that doesn't work I am going to shorten up a bunch and shoot it this way for now. Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

[john hayslip]

It isn't unusual to find an old timer that takes a boolit that makes chambering difficult if the boolit is sized at groove size. I've had a couple of them. If Starline won't work reaming looks like the only choice. The older rifles apparently depended on black to expand the really soft pure lead bullet - and I don't think they expected the accuracy we are able to get, and expect, today. I don't know about the C&H reamer but you may also need to lengthen the throat to get a full size boolit to seat. A 3-4 inch group among regular (not benchrest) shooters was considered about average back in the 50's when I was young.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Before you chop a bunch of brass...
Take a 255 grain mold and using the hi temp metal duct tape cut a couple thin stips and apply to the mold interior so it remains open those few thousanths.
Now try some 40-1 mix. You should end up with boolits near .380. Now load those over a csae full 3F.
I have several Fat throated Winchesters and Marlins of the older years that were a problem. You just need a fat enough soft boolit to bump up and 40-1 with a near case full (to boolit base plus 1/8 inch)of 3f to do it.
Or take that same boolit with 8 grains Unique and fill the case to boolit base with Cream of Wheat. No air gaps inside case! Powder plus a flat paper wad plus the COW. Will form around the boolit base filling any and all voids in the throat area. Also smells like toasted oats.
I have used both these methods with numerous old fat throat straight wall applications and all respond nicely.
Mike in Peru

[McLintock]

I had a Browning 1885 38-55 that really liked .380 and .381 bullets, but I couldn't chamber them in full length brass. Also had some blown out 30-30 brass that had been shortened to about 1.95", so I could get 9 rounds in a 24 inch magazine of a '94. Loaded the plain base .380 in the shortened brass with 18 grs of 4227 and that made a great load for up to 300 yards. Loaded the .381 bullet, a gas checked lyman 378499, in the brass but seated out enough to get 31 grains of 3031 under it, and it made an even better load, good out to 500 yards. So you're going in the right direction, but the shortened cases don't work as well with black powder, can't get enough into the case.
McLintock

[marvelshooter]

My Lee mold drops a .381 boolit so I am good there. The problem is chambering them is hit or miss until they are down to .377" and then they don't shoot. I tried a case full of 2F with disappointing results. I will try the 8 grains of Unique and Cream of Wheat under a soft boolit. This rifle will not likely be shot at more than 100 yards and then only at paper or a gong so all I care about is reasonable accuracy and having fun. The cases I will cut are already junk from split necks so no loss. Thanks again.

[enfield]

I found that Trail Boss bumps up the boolit and is more accurate in my old Winny than other smokeless loads I tried. about 7 grains is the suggested load.

[Nobade]

My Lee mold drops a .381 boolit so I am good there. The problem is chambering them is hit or miss until they are down to .377" and then they don't shoot. I tried a case full of 2F with disappointing results. I will try the 8 grains of Unique and Cream of Wheat under a soft boolit. This rifle will not likely be shot at more than 100 yards and then only at paper or a gong so all I care about is reasonable accuracy and having fun. The cases I will cut are already junk from split necks so no loss. Thanks again.

I am quite surprised that you didn't have good results with black powder. I have never seen a 38-55 that didn't shoot its best with black. In my own rifle I am shooting a .366" bullet paper patched to .372", in a barrel that measures .373" X .381" and am getting 2 MOA or less every time. FFg KIK powder compressed .250", thin card wad on each side of a grease cookie, and boolit on top.

-Nobade

[longbow]

I am with Mike on the COW. I was going to suggest the same thing.

Probably the best solution is to ream the chamber but if you don't want to or can't get it done then it certainly won't hurt to try COW... as long as you work up a load with the filler or use known safe load with filler. Don't just go adding COW to any old load to fill the brass up.

I can't speak for .38-55 because I don't have one but I use mostly COW under cast in my .303's after carefully working up loads and they work very well for me.

Another option may be hollow base boolit if a mould is available in the size you want. The hollow base might upset enough to seal well and provide decent accuracy.

Longbow

[Jon K]

Clean up the chamber, and don't look back.
You make it fit and it will shoot...won't be any guessing "what if & maybe", or by guess & by golly.

You can also "back order" Starline brass and wait for the next production run(usually once or twice a year).

Jon

[Creedmoor]

Had this exact same problem with my 38-55 CB. I just sent it back to Marlin with a note explaining the problem. They sent it back with a new barrel having a chamber cut to max saami specs and problem was solved. This was about 8 years ago when Marlin was Marlin. I've heard that customer service as well as quality has suffered with the adoption by Remington.

[fryboy]

i havent looked today but last nite graf's had starline brass in ( finally )

[marvelshooter]

Update - kinda long. I ordered the .400 mouth chamber reamer from 4D and used it. All I had in unsized lubricated boolits were some cast from range lead and dipped in Lee liquid alox. I loaded them over 8 grains of Unique and took them and some I had been saving that woud not previously chamber to the range. The leftovers did not shoot well but now the cases are empty. The unsized range lead boolits shot pretty well - at least as good as my experimental short cased ones. Over the rainy weekend I mixed some Ben's Red and pan lubed some unsized boolits cast from straight wheelweights. I loaded these over 8 grains of Unique in unsized cases just using my thumb to seat the boolits. I also tried paper patching a few just for fun. The paper patched loads gave mixed results probably due to me. One 5 shot group had a boolit tumble and one group was 1 3/8" at 50 yards. The lubed boolits did better with three 5 shot groups averaging 1 3/4" and one at 7/8". I may play with paper patching a little more if I get bored but for now it is unsized (.381 - .382) wheel weight boolits and Ben's Red. Thanks to all who made suggestions to help me get Dad's old rifle shooting again and special thanks to Skipper for the link to the reamer at 4D.