Wheelweights to range scrap ratio?

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

For the past few years, I have had an unlimited supply of range scrap (somewhat soft) from an indoor range, along with a somewhat steady supply of wheelweights. I have been mixing the 2 50/50 and water dropping my boolits straight from the mold. They come out very hard, which I like.

Now however, my supply of WWs seems to be getting risky, may lose it soon. I only have two 5 gallon buckets of unsmelted WWs left, plus maybe 100 pounds of rendered ingots.

All this leads to my question. In the event I am unable to obtain WWs (for a reasonable price), what is the lowest ratio of WWs to range lead that should still make hard boolits when water dropped?? 25/75? 40/60?

I realize this may be tough to answer since neither I nor you know the alloy content of my range scrap. I can only tell you (since I do not have a hardness tester) that it is between pure lead and WWs in hardness. There seems to be a lot of FMJ ammo in it, which I assume has pure lead for cores.

Your best guess??

Thanks

SSB

[imashooter2]

I water drop straight indoor range scrap and it hardens equivalent to water dropped WW using my extremely scientific scratch tests.

[sundog]

Arsenic, SSB. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference what the base is, even though a lot of range scrap is hard something to start with. Put some shot in the mix, water drop, and you have HARD. Nothing scientific to it, because we don't know what's in the base alloy. Been doing it for years. Get the tournament grade smallest size (8 or 9) that has the highest arsenic percentage. Soup spoonful per 2 or 3 one-pond ingots. Experiment. Water quenches rock hard.

Felix and I have been playing around with copper babbit. We got one alloy too strong and it sheets. Another diluted a little that make a good mixer with standard alloy. Makes a very tough alloy that hardens well. Hard to pour due to high surface tension - pour fill out - copper wants to freeze to early. But when you get it right, heat, copper, tin, hold your mouth right, what beautiful boolits. That shoot straight. If you really get it right, they're hard, air cooled. Not having our own lab, there's no way way to tell what those mixtures are. Just have to 'spearmint' - take a swag.

[sundog]

Imashooter, uh, that would be a thumb nail, eh?

the scientific method, that is...

[truckmsl]

Hey sundog - I'm in the same boat here. I've never bought shot, so my question is does all shot have arsenic in it, or is there a certain type to increase range lead hardness when quenching?

[sundog]

Read the labels, turn the bag over, put on the reading glasses and look at what's in it. Tournament grades are usually higher and smaller shot size may be higher.

Or, wait for your club to mine it's fallout fields and buy some recovered shot. Make your own deal for one or a hunert pounds.

Price of shot right now is rather pricey!

[ktw]

I have a large batch of range scrap that air cools to 8 BHN but heat treats to over 20 BHN. I don't water drop from the mold, I put a batch of air cooled bullets in the oven for an hour at 450 then drop them all at once into a bucket of water

You might want to try testing the range scrap you have. It might surprise you how well it responds to heat treating.

-ktw

[leftiye]

sundog,
So, how much copper can you put in and still have it cast? Better still, how much can you add and it casts well (if that happens)? How hard is is air cooled, and how much does it harden with heat treating? Linstrum wrote a couple of posts about using phosphorus/copper brazing (?) rod. I guess the phosphorus makes it even harder. I'm more interested in the toughness, and have thought of just adding brass brazing rod ( copper/tin). My guesstimate would be 5% tin, maybe 3% antimony, plus some (?) copper, and 92.5% lead? Don't really care about arsenic as I'm not going to heat treat.

Just think how a real hard alloy for the bearing surfaces would work if combined with a soft but tough nose section a la' bruce's two metal softnoses. P.S. I just re-read your post (about no telling what the mixes were), how about a guestimate?

[sundog]

I have no idea. Add until you cannot get a good fill out, then dilute with your alloy until works right. Record what you've put in so you duplicate it. Without knowing exactly what you start with, no lab, and a best guess, that's probably the easiest and quickest way to come up with something based on your ingredients.

I've even used air gun pellets in the mix. Makes a heavier boolit, but I don't have a clue what the percentages are.

[imashooter2]

Imashooter, uh, that would be a thumb nail, eh?

the scientific method, that is...

Consistency in testing is important, so I've been using the same equipment for many years. And yes, I store my equipment on my thumb.[smilie=1:

[felix]

Arsenic is a great hardness additive on its own merits. Boolits do not require heat treatment for the arsenic to be of benefit. ... felix

I can go on a little further here. The longer the slush stage is, the harder the boolit will be when water quenched. Now the downside. The shorter the slush stage is, the higher the probability that the boolits will form concentrically based upon weight distribution. So, you have a catch-22 here, in that harder means less accuracy in flight with the same probability, but more accuracy during acceleration with perhaps a different probability. For every new batch that casts well, check the weight of 30-50 boolits before doing a whole pot's worth. That is a must when playing around with boolits meant for a paper target. If 90 percent of the boolits weigh the same right on the money, then the batch may be continued. Otherwise, reject the test run, and modify the lead in the pot until boolits are in the money.

Copper changes location drastically within the boolit as the boolit/lead cools. We typically do not have the proper flux, or whatever "glue", to keep the copper static long enough to make "perfect" boolits. There are probably, most likely, other metals required to be within the alloy and in exact proportions when using copper as actually intended by the Babbit engineers per application. This is too difficult to maintain at home, even if we had the mixing equipment. Measuring percentages is not in the hobby realm. ... felix

[montana_charlie]

Consistency in testing is important, so I've been using the same equipment for many years. And yes, I store my equipment on my thumb.[smilie=1:
You are what you eat, so your nail changes with diet variations.

A steady stream of red meat...or oatmeal...will keep the thumnail at a consistent hardness, but which one makes 'nails that are hard as nails?

If your 'scratcher' gets softer, it makes you think the lead is harder.
CM

[imashooter2]

The smiley indicates humor. I know the thumbnail test isn't very accurate. I'm not one to get wrapped up in the minutia of our hobby. Good enough is good enough for me.:)

[686]

i have 2 types of range lead. one mosley cast bullets, the other mosley jacket with lead centers. i am making 5 lb ingots of each. and also ww. after i get all the range lead melted, about 2000 lbs i am going to mix 10 lb ww , 10 lb hard range, 10 lb soft range lead, adding 6 lb liontype and 1 lb 60/40 soder. i know the liontype is over kill but it cast good. i mix in a 75 lb pot never emptying it to give a cross mix. when i get this all mixed it will hold me untill....... i am still picking up lead every time i find some. as the man said if you know how much lead you have you do not have enugh. i moved mine in to a new barn and almost saw how much i had. have fun and donot swett in the lead pot.