4227 dangerous in 44 mag?

[Airman Basic]

Just read in another thread that 4227 was prone to pressure spikes when loaded hot only in 44 mag. Been doing that for years. Have a goodly amount of elderly IMR 4227 that I'm using in a SBH I recently purchased. The 23-24 grain max load from many sources leaves unburned powder and no pressure signs. I was about to run a little higher but now not sure. Anybody else experienced or read about this problem? New to me.

[Char-Gar]

I would consider that to be nonsense. It would not be the first I have read on this and other internet gun boards.

[Kraschenbirn]

While I don't currently load 4227 in my .44 Mags, I've used it for years in both .357 and .41 Mags with no ill effects. Actually, back when I shot IHMSA regularly, I loaded a compressed charge of 4227 (don't recall the exact charge weight) under an NEI 240 gr TC...and put a LOT of those downrange in all kinds of weather/temperature conditions without the first indication of excessive pressure.

Bill

[PS Paul]

Hmmmmm. Internet wives' tale? Been loading HOT .45 Colt loads with it for over 25 years and no ill effects. Not sure what would be different in .357, .41 OR .44 mag?

Yup. 4227 ain't the hottest, fastest or cleanest (unburned granules in my hair is normal), BUT it sure is my most-favored for the old Colt. Kinda smells good and makes a nice, pleasant BOOM that I really enjoy. I'd ignore the tales and keep on truckin', errr, loadin'......

[dmize]

I have shot a bunch of 4227. Had about all the "internet expert" horse apples I care for.
If its in the book,shoot it!!

[singleshot]

I use a lot of 4227 not only for 44 mag 310gr boolits, but also 35 rem. I'd consider that complete non-sense.

[JRPVT]

Also have loaded LOTS of .44 mag with 4227...never a sign of anything near high pressure..load them up

[Lloyd Smale]

never saw it myself.

[44man]

Flat primers but no pressure signs. The problems I had with IHMSA was an increase in velocity as the gun heated. I would center steel and each shot after hit lower and lower. At 200 meters the first ram was centered and shots went lower until the last ram and I hit 50 meters short with the sights 16 clicks over normal for the distance. The chrono showed the increase. Keep the gun cold and the powder shoots from the .44. It works in other calibers like the .357 max.
I am not making this up, switching to 296 took me from 12 or 15 to 40 hits.
The largest amount of cussing on the line was from .44 shooters using 4227.
I use it in other calibers but my .44's will never see it again.

[joec]

Kind of reminds me of some posts I read a while back about Lil'Gun tearing up forcing cones due to heat. I've been shooting the stuff for a while now in both 45 Colt and 454 Casull with no sign of any problems. Perhaps it was true of some of the first batches but if so it sure isn't now. I actually prefer it to 296/H110 in these higher power loads. I also have loaded some 45 and 454 using 4227 and find it really accurate also.

[at_liberty]

44man, how does an increase in velocity make a gun shoot lower? The only thing that comes to mind is bullet tumbling or maybe the bullet's reaction to an expanded barrel when hot.

[swheeler]

44man, how does an increase in velocity make a gun shoot lower? The only thing that comes to mind is bullet tumbling or maybe the bullet's reaction to an expanded barrel when hot.


barrel time

[at_liberty]

Not getting it.

[swheeler]

slower equals longer time bullet in barrel under recoil= higher impact, faster=lower impact

[44man]

Barrel time is correct.
You probably might not see it if you shoot close ranges. Just strung groups.

[at_liberty]

slower equals longer time bullet in barrel under recoil= higher impact, faster=lower impact

So it's the muzzle that climbs, not the bullet. Says something for moderate barrel length.

[theperfessor]

A handgun rotates in the shooters hand when it is fired. The longer the bullet is in the barrel the greater the angle the gun barrel will rotate through, thus raising the point of impact.

[dmize]

And for the record a bullet starts "falling" the moment it leaves the barrel.

[Tatume]

Ken Waters noted pressure problems with IMR 4227 in one cartridge, I don't remember offhand which. He couldn't explain it, but claimed it was definitely real. If there's sufficient interest I can look it up, but it will take a while.

Take care, Tom

[44man]

Ken Waters noted pressure problems with IMR 4227 in one cartridge, I don't remember offhand which. He couldn't explain it, but claimed it was definitely real. If there's sufficient interest I can look it up, but it will take a while.

Take care, Tom
I never reached over pressures but it can happen I guess. I never loaded max and with the velocity problems I reduced quite a bit with tests and the problem never went away. For some reason 4227 is heat sensitive in the .44. I could see primers get flatter as I went through a shoot but cases never stuck. I could tell you what round was shot first, second and so on by looking at the brass in my hand.
I had the problem down to 21 gr with a 240 gr bullet. Some of the guys were using 25 gr.

[firefly1957]

I use IMR 4227 in my favorite castboolit hunting load never had a problem with it i have had problems with high pressure Blue Dot loads in both the 44 and the 357-44 Brain & Davis.