Gov't Spec Mold for 500gr .45-70

[Bigslug]

Picked up a trapdoor that appears to be throated for the heavy boolit.

Is anybody offering a clone of the original GI mold?

[Griz44mag]

From everything I have found, the "original" Govt bullet was 405gr.
Might check with NOE and see if they can accommodate you for a heavy version.
They make some very nice molds. I cast a 405gr flat nose I got from them.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Years ago I had a Rapine 460-500 that was as far as I could see from a loaded Frankfort Arsenal round, (tinned case, 500gr. bullet-1889) was correct, at least the nose section. Unfortunately, Rapine is no longer in business making molds and I regretfully let the mold go in a trade. The Lyman 457125 looks close for the 500gr. Gov't bullet. I have pretty good luck with the LEE 405gr. hollow base in my 1884 Springfield for what it's worth.

[Shooter]

From everything I have found, the "original" Govt bullet was 405gr.
Might check with NOE and see if they can accommodate you for a heavy version.
They make some very nice molds. I cast a 405gr flat nose I got from them.

From 1882 to the end of production the rifle load was a 500 grain bullet with 70 Gr. of black powder.
The carbine load was a 405 Gr. bullet with 55 Gr. of powder.

Smokeless powder was used April through June of 1898 with a 500 Gr. bullet.

[Nobade]

SAECO makes a very good copy of the original boolit. BACO has a good one too, in a choice of diameters for a bit more money.

Lyman #457125 is close and works very well in my rifle.

-Nobade

[40-82 hiker]

Picked up a trapdoor that appears to be throated for the heavy boolit.

Is anybody offering a clone of the original GI mold?

Based on my experience, I would still try the 405, as it is a VERY good boolit for my '84 TD. I used to shoot the 500, but now I mold and load the 405 with great success. Of course, I never shoot my TD more than 100 yards, so the difference may be totally lost on me.

I use Lyman 457124 as it is a duplicate of the original Govt 405 boolit, and it uses 20% less lead than the 500, with less recoil also. With 20:1 it casts large enough for me to size to .459", as my bore measured .457 to .458. I never measured the throat, but got very lucky as my gun is quite happy with that diameter boolit.

[Griz44mag]

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70
and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Model_1873


1873 - 405gr was the original bullet
1879 - 500gr for longer range shooting

Everything I have found in historical references show the 405 was the "original" loading.


The new cartridge was completely identified as the .45-70-405, but was also referred to as the ".45 Government" cartridge in commercial catalogs. The nomenclature of the time was based on several properties of the cartridge:
.45 : nominal bullet diameter, in decimal inches i.e. 0.458 inches (11.63 mm)
70 : mass of powder in grains.
405 : weight of lead bullet, in grains i.e. 405 grains (26.2 g)
The minimum acceptable accuracy of the .45-70 from the 1873 Springfield was approximately 4 inches (100 mm) at 100 yards (91 m), however, the heavy, slow-moving bullet had a "rainbow" trajectory, the bullet dropping multiple yards (meters) at ranges greater than a few hundred yards (meters). A skilled shooter, firing at known range, could consistently hit targets that were 6 × 6 feet (1.8 m) at 600 yards (550 m)—the Army standard target. It was a skill valuable mainly in mass or volley fire, since accurate aimed fire on a man-sized target was effective only to about 300 yards (270 m).
After the Sandy Hook tests of 1879, a new variation of the .45-70 cartridge was produced: the .45-70-500, which fired a heavier 500 grain (32.5 g) bullet. The heavier 500-grain (32 g) bullet produced significantly superior ballistics, and could reach ranges of 3,350 yards (3,120 m), which were beyond the maximum range of the .45-70-405. While the effective range of the .45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load, the heavier bullet would produce lethal injuries at 3,500 yards (3,200 m). At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at a roughly 30 degree angle, penetrating 3 one inch (2.5 cm) thick oak boards, and then traveling to a depth of 8 inches (20 cm) into the sand of the Sandy Hook beach*. It was hoped the longer range of the .45-70-500 would allow effective volley fire at ranges beyond those normally expected of infantry fire.[5]

[CanoeRoller]

Original, government issue boolit is a bit vague, as the issued slug changed over the years. Not only did it change from the 400 grain to the nominal 500 grain, it changed from hollow base to solid base. If you are after as close as possible to one of the original slugs, you need to look for a rather blunt round nosed boolit, with three wide deep grease grooves. The Lyman has four grooves, and is close.
78187
The slug on the left is an original government issue slug found on an infantry shooting range from the 1880's. It weighs a bit under 500 grains and has a hollow base. The one on the far right is the Lyman 457125, you will notice the nose is a bit thinner, shorter and not as blunt as the original. It weighs about 530 grains (depending on the alloy) . The middle slug is a Rapine, and is almost identical to the original round, and weighs in a 500 grains with a 20 to 1 alloy.


Both the Lyman and the Rapine will shoot well, though I have better accuracy out of my Sharps with the Rapine. My old Remington preferred the Lyman, not surprising, as my Remington never ate its vegies either.

[montana_charlie]

Picked up a trapdoor that appears to be throated for the heavy boolit.
Did you buy a rifle or a carbine?

CM

[Larry Gibson]

Picked up a trapdoor that appears to be throated for the heavy boolit.

Is anybody offering a clone of the original GI mold?

You might find this thread worth a read;http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?190999-My-Trapdoor-Loads-Technique-and-Equipment

Larry Gibson