.44-40 question. Is .430" too big?

[moptop]

I'm looking for a cast boolet that I can use for reloading .44-40 (.44WCF) All the data I find on the proper boolet dia' lists it at .426"-.427". I've been using Missouri Bullet Co's .401" RNFP for my .38-40 and they work great but they don't list anything in .426"-.427". They do list a .430" RNFP in the various weights. Would that be too large? Of course I'm open to casting them myself so suggestions on a mold would be great too. I'm partial to Lee molds. They work well for me.

Yes. the bore on this Win '92 is a little worn but .430" seems a bit too big unless they very soft.

I just thought I'd ask what others are using.
Thanks much everyone.

[bubba15301]

.430 DIA might not chamber

[Outpost75]

Cast the chamber of what you've got. In pre-1940. 44-40s the .430" bullet won't chamber. But some modern repros are sloppy enough to accept modern bullets.

[No_1]

My Dad, Brothers and I have just began down the 44-40 road. So far we have gathered Ruger Vaquero's, Cimarron's, S&W 544's and Rossi M92's. I have only slugged and tested the Cinarron's and the Rossi M92. What I have found is the barrels are ~.429. Test and live rounds using Starline brass with .430 diameter bullets fit, function and fire fine. I will test the a S&W 544 and Ruger Vaquero next time I have a chance.

[bob208]

i have a real 92 winchester carbine a repro 66 winchester made by uberti and a saa clone by asm. all in .44-40. i use a 200 gr bullet from the rcbs mold sized to .429 in all of them. it shoots good no leading and chambers like it should.

[fouronesix]

If I were you I'd at least try a few of the .430" 200 gr in a traditional style RNFP flat base at a fairly soft BHN of 8-9. My originals (Win 92 & 73) have no problem chambering that diameter. I use Starline brass that has a neck wall thickness that averages .0062. I load to a MV of about 750-800 fps with a powder like Trailboss. Then again I imagine you are going to do what you are going to do and will pick a suggestion that agrees with your pre-conception. :)

[Griff411]

Slug the bore to choose the proper size. .427 may be traditional, but many guns like a larger size. My guns all work well with .429, fortunately. Some, but not all will freely chamber .430. I've used Lee's 429-200 mould, but it doesn't carry enough lube to suit me. The traditional Lyman 427098 doesn't have a crimp groove, making it tend to telescope in tubular magazines. Mine also casts at .427, so needs to be "Beagled" to fit my guns. I currently use an Accurate Molds mould, which works great.

[moptop]

Thanks all for the input. This rifle is an original Win '92 takedown made in 1906. We've been shooting some factory 200 grn loads in it and they work great. I guess I should pull one of those and mic it to see what it is and go from there. At least I know I'm in the ballpark for size. If I consider the age and condition of the bore and large dia' boolet might just be what it needs.


thanks again all.

[herbert buckland]

Just measure the mouth of a fired case from your rifle ,the largest cast bullet that will slip into this case will be the one to use,in the original 44-40 92s the 200gr bullet will most likly give the best acuracy

[w30wcf]

Thanks all for the input. This rifle is an original Win '92 takedown made in 1906. We've been shooting some factory 200 grn loads in it and they work great. I guess I should pull one of those and mic it to see what it is and go from there. At least I know I'm in the ballpark for size. If I consider the age and condition of the bore and large dia' boolet might just be what it needs.

thanks again all.

Original Winchester '92's in .44-40 are mostly close to .426"-.427" groove diameter since most were made in the smokeless powder era. (Not so the '73's since many were made in the b.p. era where b.p. could be counted on to bump up soft lead bullets to fit the various groove diameters.)

Since all factory .44-40 jacketed ammo is loaded with .426" bullets and most all lead bulleted factory ammo uses .427" bullets and since you said they "work great", .427" bullets will likely work aok but as has been indicated, if the case will chamber ok with .429"/ .430" bullets, then that might be the likely choice.

w30wcf

[Marvin S]

If it chambers easily go for it. I use the LEE 429-200 rf in my Rem 14 1/2 with good results.

[Griff411]

If I had known that w30wcf was going to answer, I wouldn't have commented. He is one of the most experienced and knowledgeable men on this cartridge I know. Hear him.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have three Winchester 1892 SRC 44 WCF and they all chamber and shoot a .432 boolit dropped from my Saeco mold #433 the best. All three are pre 1909 and the oldest is 1893 (37xxx). .432 is the fattest boolit that will chamber using Winchester brass in my carbines. A .431 sized boolit is nearly as accurate with 8 grains of Unique ( I am rather limited down here).
With 3F a .430 or .431 Saeco (soft) is as accurate and far easier to chamber after the first round.

I also have an origonal Winchester 200 grain mold here. It dropped 40-1 at .426+ and shot plain awful with any load of Unique and barely better with 3F. Cast from WW it was awful with both Unique and 3F (naturally). I lappered the mold open so it would drop range lead at .431 and 40-1 at .430. Now that boolit will shoot cloverleafs at 25 yards with 8 grains Unique or 3F.

Those are my experiences with the 3 44 WCF SRC's exported to Peru before 1909.
Mike in Peru

[fouronesix]

Is the standard, published groove diameter for 92s and 73s that small (.426-7) and not necessarily what was cut? Or could it be the standard, published bullet diameter for the 44-40 is that small (BP era specs)? I have two originals as posted earlier- a 92 and a 73. I slugged both early on when trying to determine best bullet diameter. The 92 has an extremely fine bore and was shot little. I got the 73 in un-fired condition. The 92's groove diameter is .430. The 73's groove diameter is .429. These are groove diameters- not throat diameters.

Here's the published data for the 44-40 in Hatcher's:

Standard Bore Diameter........ .4225" (Groove diameter not listed)
Normal Max Bullet Diameter.. .427"

Doing a little 'rithmetic by cutting grooves into the bore, it's easy to see a decent guess at a Standard Groove Diameter would be closer to .429-30.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Groove diameter for my 3 are
1893 barrel .433 at throat area and .430+ at barrel end.
1902 barrel .432 at throat area and .431 at barrel end.
1908 barrel .431+ at throat area and .430+ at barrel end.
I do not have a set of pin gauges here in Peru to measure bore at barrel.
These SRC's are well used over the years but I do not think shot much. But also not well cleaned over the years as each barrel shows minor pitting but strong rifling.
Mike in Peru

[1874Sharps]

If chambering a round with a 0.430" boolit is difficult you may consider trying a thin-walled brand of brass like Winchester. They seem to run a bit thinner than most. Then again, you may have no problem at all with any given brass. One thing is certain: You are most fortunate to have a great old vintage Wichester!

[w30wcf]

Guys,
Interesting that your '92's are running over .427" groove diameter. The 3 that I have slugged (not mine) ran .426-.427" in the groove.

Thank you for that information.

w30wcf

[Ordnancebob]

I use .430 diameter bullets for CAS in both my Chapparel revolvers as well as Taylor Smokewagons. I had to open the cylinder throats on the Chappies. I get better accuracy and less leading than I did with.427.
Same loads work in my Uberti/Win 73. For "Pale Rider" class Starline brass with APP powder and "Classic Cowboy" with Winchester Brass and Trail Boss powder.

Sua Tela Tonanti
Ordnancebob

[maglvr]

"Then again I imagine you are going to do what you are going to do and will pick a suggestion that agrees with your pre-conception."
Quite possibly one of the greatest / truest (Yes, that's a word :-) ) lines ever typed!

[Ruts]

I use .430 in my original 92 and .427 in my original marlin 94.

[Pioneer2]

The thinnest brass are Starline ,then Winchester and last Remington.I can use a .429 220gr GC in my original 92 but only with Starline and Winchester brass. RE#7 is the powder for the 44-40 in a 92.

[smkummer]

I have loaded for a friends original 92 44-40 saddle ring carbine. I gave him RP sized cases loaded with Lee’s 200 FP bullet sized to .427, .429 and .430. He said he felt a slight resistance chambering the .430 sized bullet so I loaded him the .429 sized bullets. He was going to shoot it last weekend but the weather was bad.

[shaggybull]

I have a Lee 90343 drops .427 boolitt 245-250 grain depending on the alloy. It came with a batch of molds.

[fn1889m]

It is my understanding that modern .44-40 reproductions are made with the same barrels as .44 Special. Uberti is not going to make a new barrel that is .002 smaller just for authenticity. I ordered a .44 special barrel and cylinder, and received a barrel marked .44 WCF. They explain to me that there was no difference in diameter of the grooves and lands. I’m not sure how true that is with other brands. Of course, this does not apply to vintage firearms.