Accuracy help?

[KYShooter73]

I'm shooting powder coated 9mm. I'm currently sizing at .356 with a lee push through. No leading, but my accuracy leaves something to be desired. I've searched, tried several things but I'm still at +2 inches not counting wild fliers vs jacketed at 20 yards. Using lee 356125, hollow pointed, in a m&p pro. I laddered my load from 3.9 to 4.9 of bullseye at .1 gn intervals with no measurable difference. Varied my crimp from heavy to just enough to close the bell...no change. I sized some to .356, then powder coated, leaving the boolit at .358. My barrel slugs at .3565. The .358 rounds will not fit the chamber. I have some plain base gas checks on the way to try. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Echo]

Have you slugged the bbl? 356 may be too small, and the powder coating (with which I have NO experience!) may be keeping the leading down, so the boolit rattles down the bore...
I tried some 9mm's in my Ruger Convertible, and could hardly keep them in the black at 25 yds. A 356 bullet in a 357 bore is not a good thing...

[KYShooter73]

I should add that I'm seating to 1.061 (hollow point design) I may try it a little deeper with the .358 boolits tonight to see if that will chamber via a suggestion by pm.

[dverna]

Look at the weight variation before PC'ing. Also, do commercial cast bullets shoot OK?

2" groups at 20 yards is not that terrible for a stock M&P.

Don Verna

[fredj338]

Sometimes it's a size issue, sometimes it's a load issue. I had a BHP that would NOT shoot 125gr LRN w/ W231, 4" was about as good as it got. When I switched to Unique, magic, nice round sub 2" groups @ 25yds.

[gray wolf]

.356 in a .3565 bore ????

[KYShooter73]

.356 in a .3565 bore ????

Ill measure my slug again, but Im pretty sure thats right. No excuse except being a caster for only 6 months. I just bought the equipment marketed for 9mm.

Sorry for the confusion, but it is not a 2 inch group, that would be fine. It is a group two inches greater than my group with jacketed. So a 5 inch group cast vs a 3 inch group jacketed. Plus I have occasional fliers with the cast completely off the target. I have never shot commercial cast through this weapon

[MWesner55]

KY what's your reason for using PC boolits? A majority of what I have heard (mainly rifle) PCing does decrease accuracy unless you are PCing for competition which would mean you are increase your powder charge to an otherwise hot load. Because PCing decreases pressure competition shooters can safely load more powder which they claim gives better accuracy. I would never do this without 6 months of loading/casting experience under my belt. And I would not recommend anyone doing it who isn't aware of the risks.

I used to get terrible leading in my boar of my RIA 1911 with commercial cast bullets when I switched to my casts I got next to no leading. Just my two cents.

[KYShooter73]

I guess you could say powder coating lead me back to cast boolits. I have previously had bad experiences with lead boolits, commercially cast. Truth is, I probably never put the time and money needed into load development with the commercially cast lead boolits. I always had leading, questionable accuracy, and malfunctions so I just went with plated or jacketed. Reading about powder coating lead me here, that lead me to the search function and reading everything I could get my hands on, and there I have been on the learning curve since I started. Im one of the ammo/reloading component shortage folks that got into casting. Im 40 now, so this isnt my first experience with this political climate. Been reloading since I was 16. I guess my goal is to be able to feed my handguns and AR's (converted to .300blk) being able to weather whatever shortages come my way. A little bit off topic, but thats where Im at.

[gray wolf]

I would loose the PC and size up a little.

[KYShooter73]

Ok, got a couple of test batches ready. I got the .358 to chamber with a crazy deep seating, 1.005 oal, but they chamber, feed and function fine. No overpressure signs. I have 25 of these, plus 25 of the .356 with a gas check ready to accuracy test, hopefully tomorrow. Not giving up on the powder coat, if there is no leading, the lubrication (pcing) is fine, I'm thinking gas escaping around the boolit. Mr. Murphy says I'm usually wrong, but Im gonna keep trying. Guess I want to reinvent the wheel.

[Harter66]

All I load for 9s,38/357s and a 40 are plain base Darr lubed as cast water dropped WW . Sometimes when its HOT or I get too trigger happy I get some lead that doesn't brush out easy.

I never have slugged the BHP but the 359 dia 356-124 TLTCs don't lead so I'm happy .

[KYShooter73]

Ya, I'm using COWW plus 2% tin. Should have included that.

[MtGun44]

.357 or .358 and try a real lube.

Bill

[fcvan]

I have yet to find a 9mm that didn't like .358 but have had several that keyholed/leaded/patterned with .357 or smaller. I have played with plain based gas checks (sized at .358) and they were tack driving greatness. I have played with .358 powder coated and they were PURTY and tack driving greatness.

I have shot 1000s of cast 9mm cartridges (sized at .358) without either PB checks or PC, and they were lead free, sub 2" at 25 yards greatness. Of late, I am PCing all of my 9mm and enjoying one hole slowfire groups at 15 yards. To steal from another member, 'fit is king' and to steal from another 'aim small, miss small' and you should have tackled your accuracy issues :)

[KYShooter73]

Gee, why are you guys seriously anti powder coating? I'm shooting .356 in a .3565 barrel with no leading. No known conventional lube will do that. I think you are right on the sizing regarding accuracy. I don't have money to buy a real sizer, just the lee stuff, which I may lap out to .357 or .358 if my testing hits the mark. Please don't misinterpret me as being rude, you folks have no idea how much I appreciate you and how much I have gained reading here. Plus, pretty boolits have to count for something. I've gone from clueless to making these in less than 6 months...
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[freebullet]

Powder coating for 9mm isn't necessary. I would size to .357 & tumble lube them. Oal has a big affect on accuracy also. I would put a boolit in the throat & wedge it there centered. Put a Dowell in barrel to the boolit mark it at the end of the barrel. Remove the boolit re-insert the Dowell & mark it at the end of the barrel. Now measure the between the barrel side of the marks on the Dowell. That's how long I would make the first dummy rounds, & see if they feed. If not you may need to seat them 5-10thou deeper for feeding. I find best accuracy with 2r boolits about 15-30 thou into the throat.

Edit- for best consistency those drive bands should be powder coated also I would think.

[KYShooter73]

Hmmm, pretty smart free. Think I will give that a try. I only want to change 1 thing at a time, so I think first ill try .358 without GC'S, .356 with GC'S and longer oal. Except for the hollow point cavity, everything is coated. That pic is with PB pop can gas checks seated.

[ku4hx]

Gee, why are you guys seriously anti powder coating?

I don't feel the responses you're gotten indicate a serious or pervasive "anti powder coating" position, you've just gotten honest opinions. Keep in mind who your audience is. When you post a seemingly non traditional approach on a forum that is dedicated to the "old timey" activity of making boolits the way it was done long before the jacketed variety was invented, you're going to have a certain number of us that don't care for the process. I did powder coating years ago, and didn't like it for a variety of reasons, and I'll tell anybody that ... that's my story and I'm sticking to it. If you're making it work, then more power to you and you should continue in your efforts.

[KYShooter73]

True true. If I look for knowledge I read, if I look for wisdom I post (experience + knowledge = wisdom). I have 2 loads to test, 25 rds each. Both are 4.5 bullseye, one .358, the other .356 gas checked. Going to test, if it dont work, gonna switch to unique and longshot, and then beg for more wisdom if it don't work out. Thank you all. Will post results.

[ku4hx]

True true. If I look for knowledge I read, if I look for wisdom I post (experience + knowledge = wisdom). I have 2 loads to test, 25 rds each. Both are 4.5 bullseye, one .358, the other .356 gas checked. Going to test, if it dont work, gonna switch to unique and longshot, and then beg for more wisdom if it don't work out. Thank you all. Will post results.

Can you post pictures of your setup? I'd like to see how you do it along with a description of your particular process.

[KYShooter73]

Ill be happy to. Tomorrow...:bigsmyl2: Time for sleep.

[Harter66]

Its not that I dont like or approve of powder coating. Its that I'm to cheap to spend for the tools . As cast delivers what I need/want in all of the pistol cartridges I shoot . It also delivers for shooting profiency in most rifles I load . God willing w/some paper added they will put groceries on the table too.
Frankly I know some ''chicks'' that would be crazy about boolits to match their nails and pink pistols . I know 1 that shoots 3 gun that would be all over it just because it would pad the ''wiles'' edge. If I had the tools set up I'd try it . heck only 2 things kept me from doing some plating , X2 living up to an image and sizing tools.

Paint them babies . Its your secret lube part. Mine is Darrs,it goes to 2100fps to at least 35 kpsi and stays on the boolit for 22''. Powder coating might be the ticket for a hunting boolit that needs to make the 1000 ftlb /100yd cut.

[KYShooter73]

Range report:

I tried a variety of different recipes today. Removing any crimp, only closing the bell helped most of all. I was unimpressed with my .358 loads, only picturing one below.

Benchmark is 125gn factory jacketed. All rounds fired at 20 yards from M&P Pro series.

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From my original batch with a light to medium crimp.

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Same load and oal with no crimp.

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Same load, no crimp, boolit at .358, reduced oal to 1.005, which is max for this boolit diameter allowing it to chamber.

78166

I think my keeper is the .356 pop can gas check at 1.005. I'm going to put a little more oal on this one, test, then ladder my loads from 3.9gn to 5.0gn of bullseye. (Then try other powders, the Bullseye is scarce in these parts, and I only have 1/2lb left.). Thank you everyone, any suggestions are appreciated.

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