W748 in 44 Magnum rifle?

[303Guy]

Has anyone tried W748 in 44 mag? Boolits would be 240gr but maybe heavier later. We are going to try this powder because I have some and we want low pressure rise but I'd like some confirmation before jumping in. Target velocity is 1300 to 1350 fps. I am thinking a full case or even slightly compressed would be a good starting point.

[Lloyd Smale]

way to slow and being a ball powder at low pressures its going to be tough to ignite. I also doubt it will get you anywhere near those velocitys. I could be wrong though. I know someone on here fools with re7 in the 44 and says it works. I just dont see the reasoning behind making powders work in applications there not meant to. I also dont see paying my money for 30 grains of a powder vs using 18 of the proper powder.

[44man]

I would say the powder needs a bottle neck case to retard powder movement. Shooting IHMSA had many cases using the powder but I never got it to work in many. 335 also but the stuff would crack glass from muzzle blast.
The best powder ever for the .44 is still 296 and H110.
There is one powder that confuses me, Varget. I have the 7BR and 7R that would not shoot 120 gr bullets for deer. I called Hodgdon and they said the powder is too slow. I played with it and found it shoots very small groups, burns clean, has good velocity and is my go to powder for light bullets.
Heavier uses 4759 and real heavy uses 322.
But 748 did not work for me in too many guns. I think it is a mistake to put it in a straight wall case.

[jlchucker]

748 is a good powder that really shines in bottleneck cases such as the 308 Winchester, 30-30, and 35 Remington. I've never seen any published data for using it in handgun calibers. I value my fingers and my guns too much to fool with powders for which I can't find data generated by powder manufacturers. My go-to 44 magnum powder is 2400, and I've used Unique in that caliber as well.

[303Guy]

The idea is for a slow pressure rise and a low peak pressure for a gentler recoil. High muzzle blast does not seem like a good trade-off.

How low can one go with H4227 with a 240gr boolit? Or with H110?


240 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon H4227 .429" 1.600" 22.0 1624 28,400 CUP
240 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon H110 .429" 1.600" 23.0 1750 25,200 CUP Starting loads for these to are higher than we want. Lil'Gun starting pressure is even higher which makes me wonder whether it will burn well at lower pressure in the 44 mag.


180 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H4227 .430" 1.600" 27.5 2005 24,000 CUP
180 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .430" 1.600" 29.0 2170 21,800 CUP

Here the pressure is lower but the powder charge is considerably higher.

[Lloyd Smale]

The best powder ever for the .44 is still 296 and H110.


correct answer

[oldpapps]

Just my thoughts.

If the manufacturer/distributor/retailer could come up with another area for their product, that was safe, they (collectively) would be pushing it to sell more product.

This doesn't mean that 'it' can't be done. Just that no one has and lived to tell about it or told about it :)

Be safe,

OSOK

[JeffinNZ]

It's worth a crack.

I have a .32-20 load pushing a 180gr J word over a case full of 748 and it shoots well. My .303 Pygmy likes a case full under a 220gr boolit for 1500fps. The .38-303 likes a case full under a 300gr boolit for 1700fps.

[AABEN]

WAY to slow for a hand gun powder. It is a little slow for 223. You can not find where it was used in a hand gun in any book for 748!! AA #9 AA #7 There is a lot of good hand gun powders out there. Get your self a good reloading book Lyman or Lee.

[felix]

If you can get 30 grains or more of 748 in the case with a heavy boolit of some radical design, yes, it would work. ... felix

[dragon813gt]

On the burn rate chart I have it's listed as follows.
61. LilGun
62. H110
63 W296
......
101. W748

They aren't anywhere near each others burn rates. And call me a cheap *******. But you'd end up using a lot more powder if you got it to work. I prefer to use as little powder as possible so this one makes no sense to me.

[Airman Basic]

The SBH I use for heavy loads leaves unburned granules of IMR 4227 with a 23 grain load and no pressure signs. Getting close to the top listed loads for 44mag. what chall' think of going up from there and yes the powder is that old.

[MtGun44]

You have a great expansion ratio, so it may work. I find that a heavy charge of
748 in .45-70 gives 1750 fps with cast or Jbullets at trapdoor pressures
with excellent accy.

Bill

[303Guy]

Thanks. I do suspect the case isn't big enough but all I want is 1300 to 1350 with very low pressure and preferably no unburned powder. I know H4227 needs a lot of pressure or a long barrel to burn completely. I don't know about Lil'Gun but I have had unburned powder with it but under conditions that don't tell me anything. There is a powder that burns well even at low pressure but I don't remember which one it is - 4198 or 4895? 4198 is an expensive powder at the moment over here.

Anyway, the idea is to try what powders I have to see which one we want to stock up with. I see H110/W296 is the top performer at lowest pressure but the start load is still too high. Faster powders to give the velocity desired have too fast a pressure rise for what we want to achieve, I think and all I have is AS30N/Clays. If the optimum powders will work at lower pressures then that's what we'll go for. I have used a powder similar to H4227 and found in my gun it worked fine for 44 Special loads but in other guns it left unburned kernels in the bore if the load was too low. There may be an in-between point where unburned kernels are left because the pressure is too low and the barrel time too short while below that barrel time is long enough and above that the pressure is high enough. So maybe H4227 will work for us.

[ReloaderEd]

No no and no

[303Guy]

No no and noWhy's that?

[JeffinNZ]

WAY to slow for a hand gun powder.

He didn't say it was a handgun.

[olafhardt]

303 guy you did say a rifle did you not? Iam not to sure that these other guys experience with hand guns is particulary relavent. I have wondered about some rifle powders in the 500 s&w handi rifle. A longer , lower pressure curve could produce higher velocities.

[303Guy]

Yes I did say rifle. I would not contemplate using such slow powder in a handgun. Mind you, it would be quite spectacular in the dark.

I found this load;

240 Remington IMR-4895 28.0C gr 1225 fps 22.0 inch barrel IMR 4895 is a somewhat slower than W748, lying halfway between W748 and Varget. The indication is that W748 will work exactly as desired.

[dragon813gt]

IMR 4885 is faster than W748. And W748 and Varget are practically the same, 101/99.

[44man]

Rifle or revolver, the case is still small for the .44 and will not hold enough 748 to increase velocity in a longer barrel to anything worth a darn.
I will NEVER use any 4227 in the .44 mag. It is so heat sensitive in THAT CALIBER it is crazy. Pressures and velocity will climb to the sky with gun heat. The powder is great in other calibers. It is a mystery to me but too many tests have confirmed it and even though a cold gun is accurate, any heat will drive you nuts.
748 and Varget might be close in burn rate but Varget works where 748 fails. I use 32.5 gr with a 120 gr SSP bullet in the 7BR for 2175 fps and sub 1/2" groups at 50 yards. 748 will not shoot the 120 gr bullet. The burn rate charts will not tell you a thing. Varget has surprised me to no end. Hodgdon does not even know.
The .44 is a revolver cartridge and rifle powders can't make it better. 2400, H110 and 296 is the life of the .44.

[303Guy]

And W748 and Varget are practically the same, 101/99.Oh, thanks. Other charts put W748 close to BL-C(2) and definitely show it as faster than 4895 but then again, how realistic are the charts? Powder burn rates change with the cartridge. Lil'Gun is one of those powders. It is supposed to be faster than H4227 and in the 303 Brit it is but in the hornet it is way slower but in the K hornet it is about the same.

Thanks for that advice 44man. H110 seems a better powder going by the load tables anyway so I'll rule out H4227 (I'll test it at lower levels anyway just to see how low it can go and still burn fully). I can 'borrow' some Varget for testing. I know it is a good and versatile powder and burns well at lower pressure and be used for somewhat reduced loads. I'm using 10grs of W748 for test tube testing in my Brit but with a bulk filler (although 15grs is better, probably doubling the pressure).

[MtGun44]

The rifle length tube may give you the expansion you need to make it work.

Unburned powder isn't really a problem, if the load does what you want.

Bill