lee 310gr FNGC in 1894 marlin

[glockky]

I have never tried to shoot anything heavier than a 250gr bullet in my 1894 marlin 44 mag with ballard rifling. I was wondering if anyone has tried the lee 310gr flat nose gas check bullet in there 1894 and how that it performed

[Keyston44]

When I first bought my 1894 I wanted to shoot heavy bullets so I tried Hornady and Nosler 300gr JHPs. I didn't cast my own lead bullets at the time. I couldn't get the accuracy I wanted so I stayed with the 240 and 265gr jacketed bullets for a long time.
When I did start to cast my own I remembered the problems I had with 300gr bullets not stabilizing so when it was time for me to buy a mold I went with the Ranch Dog 265gr mold. I had it cut with 3 cavities gas checked and 3 plain base.
I did get a Lee 240 swc mold to try but I couldn't get it to cast bigger than .430 and my Marlin likes the Ranch Dog bullets sized .433.

Key

[DougGuy]

SAAMI specs for a .44 rifle are a larger than a .44 pistol. Typically the rifle barrels are larger and don't work worth a damn with boolits sized for a .44 magnum pistol. I owned a Winchester 94 in .44mag but not a Marlin. From all I have read about the marlins, .432" works, and gas checks are highly recommended. I have some of the Lee 310gr FNGC from different casters on the forum, but none of them are .432" as dropped from the mold.

Some rifles won't feed that WFN without a slight chamfer on the back of the barrel but after that they feed them great.

Land and groove dia. for a rifle is .424" - .431"

Land and groove dia. for a pistol is .417" - .429"

[nagantguy]

I have a 94 win trapped .44 my go to load is a 250-260 gas checked Keith type but have had good accuracy with 300 -305 gc's. My trapper has done well with " pistol boolits, its pretty tight right at 431.

[bobthenailer]

doesent the Marlin 44 mag rifle have a rifleing twist rate that is not ideal for bullets heavyer than 260 gr.

[DougGuy]

Yep, again SAAMI specs differ for pistol and rifle in twist rate, I had forgotten about that too. 1:20 RH for pistol and 1:38 RH for rifle. SAAMI also calls for 12 narrow lands for rifle, and 6 wide lands for pistol.

The only complaints I have seen about .44 mag accuracy have been from Marlin owners, and I think it's just because of the different dimensions and the almost impossibility of finding boolits large enough in diameter to make them work. I guess if a J word is soft enough at the core, they will obturate and seal the bore and it will probably shoot quite good.

[RickinTN]

I think I remember when Marlin went to the ballard rifling in the 44 Magnum chambering they also changed the twist rate to 1-18. I know they did in the 444 chambering. I lapped my Lee mold to drop round bullets at just over .432" but haven't had the opportunity to work with it in my 444. It dropped bullets with wheel weight alloy at around .429 or so when new. The 18 twist barrel should stabilize the 310gr bullet just fine. My rifle, as most Marlins I've worked with has a short to almost non-existant throat. The Lee 310gr bullet won't chamber in my 444 without the cases being trimmed shorter than normal in order to use the crimp groove.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Shuz]

[QUOTE=RickinTN;2327193]I think I remember when Marlin went to the ballard rifling in the 44 Magnum chambering they also changed the twist rate to 1-18.
Not correct! I had a Marlin with Ballard rifling in .44 mag and it still had the 1:38 twist. Every boolit I tried from 215 to 300g would not shoot to my satisfaction even tho they were sized .432. I sold the gun and am now a happy camper. However, I have a Marlin 444 that does shoot .432" 300 grain boolits to 2.65" for 5 shots at 100 yds and at 2200fps and it also has a 1:38" twist. Each gun is an individual entity; for various reasons, some shoot well regardless of twist and others won't. At least that has been my experience.

[phaessler]

Beagled and sized to 0.432 my ballard 1894 loves them with 16.0gn 2400. Hunting is a bang - flop situation, and groups are more than acceptable for the rounds abilities/ and mine.

[izzyjoe]

i've have a '81 marlin 94 44 Mag. i size the Lee 310 to .433, and push it with 19gr of H110. i never shot them past a 100yds, but they do stabilize to there. accuratcy is not great, but good enuff for deer. usally around a 4" group.

[Ramjet-SS]

This bullet in .452 shoots really good out of my Henry 45 LC great bulletnI am running it 1600 FPS and they are tumble lubed

[longbow]

I have an old 1894 in .44 mag with 1:38" twist microgroove barrel.

I was unable to get decent accuracy with any type of boolit or bullet over about 270 grs. I have been told that they will shoot the 300 WFN's well if they are pushed hard and RanchDog says his 300 gr. design is also stable if pushed hard. Those I have not tried.

I elected to stay under 270 gr. and all is well with quite respectable accuracy.

Mine sports the typical Marlin oversize barrel with 0.4315" groove and likes boolits sized 0.432" or larger. I can chamber rounds with boolits at 0.435" and they shoot fine.

Not sure about the Ballard rifling or twist rates but I do wish mine had a faster twist. Anyway, it is happy with what I am feeding it now.

Another tip ~ slug your bore and run the slug through slowly and carefully to check for tight spots. I read on the Marlin Owner's site that many Marlins have tight spots under dovetails and roll stamping. Sure enough, mine did so I carefully lapped to remove them. Made a big difference to accuracy and about eliminated leading. I shoot all PB boolits even over max. loads.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have this mould simply because a guy was selling ti for $5 and it was in decent shape. It makes nice boolits however I haven't shot any from my rifle.

People have been trying to get Marlin to change the twist rate of those barrels for years . Ruger does 1:20, however someone decided a long time ago that the .44-40 needed a 1:38 twist. That got carried over to the .44 Magnum.

Also the reason for the bore size is SAMMI spec for the .44 Magnum is .431 +/- .002. My rifle is .431 and will shoot .432 boolits well enough. Accuracy increases as the velocity goes up. Best I've done is about 2.5 at 50 yds, which is 7.5 at 150 which is the practical limit for the cartridge. Even at 200 yards you are still in the ball park.

I have asked and never gotten a concrete answer but I think the reason for the looser bores and rifling on Marlin Rifles is due to the normal operating pressure of the factory cartridge of 35K psi. The 1894 action is not good for much more than 44k psi. So looser bores and rifling are more of a safety precaution than anything else.

Ruger bolt actions have 1:20 twist barrels, but you'll notice a much stronger action. Also most all handguns have 1:20 twistsand .429-.430bores, but most all of them are pretty strong guns as well. More so than the Marlin Levergun. By comparison many Ruger SBH's are converted to .454 Casull and that is a 65,000 psi cartridge.

The only way I see getting a 310 gr boolit to shoot well from a Marlin is to make it go fast. This may be a problem for the gun. Or maybe they will stabilize at slower speeds? More personal review on this subject is in order.

A 310 gr slug at 1800 fps is well into .45-70 ballistics.

Randy

[Ramjet-SS]

Yea I have been looking for a good used Ruger 44 bolt guns for a while now that in my mind is one of the best made little rifles around.

To think I had a Remington 788 in 44 Mag and let it go makes me ill the things we do when we are young and stupid.

What I like about this design is the performance on game. They punch two large bleeding holes and you can eat right up to the hole. The slap when they hit backstop at the range is just screams authority. The Hnery Rilfe just loves them and I cannot even telly you the what the twist rate of that rifle is.

[Fishman]

My 1894 p shoots that design fine using h110

[Ernest]

I know we all like to experiment and that is well and good. I am just not sure why any one would want to shoot 300 grainers out of a 44 mag unless you are Ross Seyfried and you want to hunt cape buffalo He did that with a hot loaded 45 colt. Also if you are in Grizzly country and want to make Damn sure you can shoot through a big bears skull I think it would be good insurance.

I don't have a huge amount of experience, but some with the 44, mostly with the lyman devastator H.P. I have used the 429215 Remington 240 J in soft and HP and the Remington 180. The only bullet that did not pass thru was on a spined Zebra that I finished with a shot thru the chest with a 4 inch mountain pistol and the Lyman Devastator cast from WW and it was under the hide on the other side of the chest.
Oops I just remembered another recovered bullet a Remington 240 soft point out of a 4" S.W. 29. I shot a very large boar hog frontaly. That bullet was found in the pelvis

Regular 220-260 grain 44 bullet shows a LOT of penetration with a lot less recoil etc.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Ramjet-SS]

I wouldn't argue that Ernest I also have great luck in the 44 with the devastator HP.

[glockky]

Will the devastator cast at .432?

[Ramjet-SS]

I do not think so unless you lap out the mold.

[upr45]

My 1894 shoots the 310gr with gc with a full charge of H110 respectably. Needs to be seated to the lower crimp groove. I lube with a soft lube & size .430. It flattens deer & does not lead barrel. I generally shoot them at 30-70yds, which isn't all that far. I use the mold as it came.

[JesterGrin_1]

I will point out that I am not a Fan of the Marlin in .44 Mag. Only because I was asking more of it than what it was capable of with its accuracy potential. But I will point out also that the Marlin in .44 Mag and ballard rifling would shoot 2 1/2 to 3" groups at 1OO yards with a scope with the Lee 310Gr RNFP/GC sized at .432 set in a Rem .44 Mag Case with 21.0Gr of W-296/H-110 and a CCI LPP.

But I need to point out that if you are going to load it up to the 21.OGr load you will have to seat the boolit out as far as you can and still cycle. So to this end I would start load development at the recommended 18.OGr of H-110 and work up slow.

Also unless you plan to hunt in very low temps of say 32F and less then a Mag primer is not needed. But whatever primer you decide to use develop a load with your selected primer.

Back to the Marlin .44 Mag. I feel it is a handy carbine for under 100 yards. And again this is just for myself lol. I am just too darn picky as far as what is acceptable accuracy for my firearms. So I sold the Marlin .44 Mag in Stainless as I got a Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 that will shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards and better.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

1894 Marlin, 1:38 tw. RD 265's @.433= dead meat for the pot

[Hickory]

There might be a market for barrels that will fit Marlin 1894 44 magnums with a 1-20 twist.
Probably couldn't make the change without a gunsmith.

[Shuz]

I've had 2/ea 1894 Marlins in .44 mag that did not meet my accuracy standard of no larger than 3" groups for 5 shots at 100 yds. One was Micro-Groove, and the other was Ballard rifling. Both were 1:38 twists. I presently have a Winchester Trapper in .44 mag, and a Marlin .444Marlin. Both of these guns will meet my accuracy standard, yet the .444 has a 1:38 twist. As I said earlier, each gun is an individual, some 1:38 twist .44's will shoot, others won't.