Ffg , fffg , ffffg vs ffa , fffa ffffa

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

My friendly Black dealer explained the FFFA vs FFFG was that G meant it had graphite added


http://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/2.html

my question , does anyone know how FFFA works in a muzzle loader , I assume the graphite acts like an anti caking agent.

how much is really in there , I am tempted to get a pound for 10 dollars for FFA and FFFA i am tempted to get a can when i make my next powder run and try it , how far could it be from home made black ? and we know that works.

[drhall762]

There is a little more to it than that. The graphite changes the burn rate of the powder and the grain sizes between blasting powders (a) and sporting powders (g) are not directly equivalent. 3Fa does not equal FFFg.

Sporting Grade Black Powder -- "g" type powders

Powder Grade pass screen, holding, stays on, passing

Whaling 32/64" mesh 3% 4 mesh 12%
Lifesaving 6 mesh 3% 12 mesh 12%
Cannon 6 mesh 3% 12 mesh 12%
Saluting 10 mesh 3% 20 mesh 12%
Fg 12 mesh 3% 16 mesh 12%
FFg 16 mesh 3% 30 mesh 12%
FFFg 20 mesh 3% 50 mesh 12%
FFFFg 40 mesh 3% 100 mesh 12%
FFFFFg (no longer manufactured by Goex)

__________________________________________________ __________________________

"A" Blasting Powder
used mostly by pyrotechnicians and for some specialized quarry work

Powder Grade passes screen holding stays on, passing

FA 20/64" mesh 3% 5 mesh 12%
2FA 4 mesh 3% 12 mesh 12%
3FA 10 mesh 3% 16 mesh 12%
4FA 12 mesh 3% 20 mesh 12%
5FA 20 mesh 3% 50 mesh 12%
6FA 30 mesh 3% 50 mesh 12%
7FA 40 mesh 3% 100 mesh 12%
Meal D 40 mesh 3%
Meal F 100 mesh 3%
Meal XF 140 mesh 3%

*** Shows maximum percentages held or passed by the sizing screens.

Commonly used Black Powder Grain Mesh Sizes
GRADE MESH RANGE
FA 3 - 5
2FA 4 - 12
3FA 10 - 16
4FA 12 - 20
5FA 20 - 50
6FA 30 - 50
7FA 40 - 100

Sporting Grades (G) Grain Size (in mm) mm)

Cannon Grade
1FG 1.68-1.19
2FG 1.19-.59
3FG .84-.29
4FG .42-.15
5FG .149

Blasting Grades (A) Grain Size (in mm)
1FA 8.0-4.0
2FA 4.76-1.68
4FA 1.68-.84

5FA .84-.297
7FA .42-.149
Meal D .42
Fine .149

[rodwha]

I'm curious what the difference in burn rate is between the two assuming equal grain size.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

it looks like 3fg and 5fa have very close screen sizes , would reducing and working up to compensate for the burn rate difference

less of a less expensive powder sounds even better if the same end result of hitting the target could be the same.

next question , is has anyone ever tried a small charge or 4fg under a round ball , thinking out loud here , for 25 yard target work i would load 30 gr of 3fg , could loading 20 gr of 4fg do the same thing yes i know "they" say 4fg is priming powder but they also say 3fg is for pistols and under 45 cal only , but i know that it works very very well in 45s , 50's even 54's

[rodwha]

From what I understand it's mostly about pressure, and so you could load a lighter charge of 4F, but you could not load a near full charge safely for long.

I've seen some use 4F in small cal pistols. I've also seen some who use 3F in their .58 cal rifle.

[waksupi]

FYI, during Revolutionary War times, the British would not used a glazed powder. I'm sure the homemade stuff in the colonies was also unglazed.

[Nobade]

My ho'made powder isn't glazed. It actually seems to work better in flintlocks than commercial glazed powder does. Lights off easier, I guess. Talked with the guy who runs Powder, Inc. once about this exact subject. He said for pistols, shotguns, CAS shooting, plinking, etc. just use the unglazed that comes in 25 lb. bags. No need for the more expensive powder unless you are shooting long range or extremely precision events. Unfortunately the bags can't be shipped and many places that have them won't let you carry them in your car. But if you can find someone to sell you some it will work fine if you use comparable grain size. BTW, I believe "skirmish" and "Jack's battle powder" are also unglazed. At least they don't look like they are.

-Nobade

[Fly]

I have messed with this stuff for some time as many of you know.Home made powder (unglazed) does now pour as easy
as glazed.I tried adding some graphite to mine, to see the difference.I had a few none ignitions & gave up on that.Like
the post above said, the British quit doing it also, back in the day.

Fly

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

hmmm , a 25 pound bag is 7.50 a pound what would i put it in to store it , mason jars with lids maybe probably get close to 2 pounds in a quart jar

I just don't have enough empty powder cans

[Hellgate]

When we had a big powder buy every spring for our blackpowder club the vender offered 5FA in 25 lb bags. It was the same as FFFg without the black graphite. I was told that it was "a little faster than FFFg" but I could see no difference and the price was definitely right. I wish I could get more as it was much less expensive and functioned the same. I used it in my C&Bs, shotgun and 58cal rifles.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

5FA is not available bummer, I would have to go with 4FA , the size range on 4fa isn't as nice as 5fa , it looks more comparable to some 1fg some 2fg and some 3fg all mixed , but i can get a 10 dollar one pound can of it to try and if it works well 25 pounds at 7.50 a pound

[ogre]

I believe that your well meaning black powder dealer bum-doped you from the get go.

The g stands for glazed not graphite, although graphite might indeed be added.

Glazed powder does not mean that graphite was added to it. It means that the powder was corned, dried, and polished. Glazing black powder = polishing black powder.

The powder is placed onto polishing barrels and tumbled. This knocks off the sharp corners and polishes the kernels of powder so that they obtain a shiny glass like (hence glazed) appearance.

This glass like finish retards the burn rate and makes for a more uniform powder.

[OverMax]

I don't ever remember seeing a (A) grade ever. As the B/P dealers in and around my location are stickily (G) sellers as far as I know. Have a few question please.

I know when metering or measuring (G) it's done by volume as is my understanding. And homemade is initially by grain weight.
When metering or measuring an (A) grade for traditional rifle use. Which of the two ways is correct?
(scaled grain weight or volume)
Is it possible to duplicate a commercial barrel polisher in a much smaller size say for home use?
Which powder is the most appropriate to polish? (puck or screen)

This thread was indeed a learning experience again for me. Many Thanks, to those who commented here.

O/M

[ogre]

I know when metering or measuring (G) it's done by volume as is my understanding. And homemade is initially by grain weight.
When metering or measuring an (A) grade for traditional rifle use. Which of the two ways is correct?
(scaled grain weight or volume)


O/M


I have never used blasting powder [(A) grade] in my firearms. I will stick with glazed, thank you. :smile:

[Nobade]

I have never used blasting powder [(A) grade] in my firearms. I will stick with glazed, thank you. :smile:

Blasting powder is not the same. It is made with sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate, and is very hygroscopic. It is not as powerful as gunpowder, better for heaving rocks instead of blowing them into small pieces. It can be used in guns but isn't very impressive. Unglazed gunpowder is just that - the same stuff but hasn't been glazed so it is not as pretty, doesn't flow through measures as well, and has more dust in it.

-Nobade

[Hellgate]

I sure did not notice any difference in sound or fury when using 5FA vs FFFg. Both performed the same in my revolvers and 12ga shotshells. The blasting powder (sodium nitrate based is designated by GOEX as: .
GOEX 1FBB GOEX 3FBB
GOEX 2FBB GOEX 4FBB
Whereas the FA powders are fireworks powders. 5FA seemed the same as FFFg to me. I think they are both KNO3 based.

[ogre]

Blasting powder is not the same. It is made with sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate, and is very hygroscopic. It is not as powerful as gunpowder, better for heaving rocks instead of blowing them into small pieces. It can be used in guns but isn't very impressive. Unglazed gunpowder is just that - the same stuff but hasn't been glazed so it is not as pretty, doesn't flow through measures as well, and has more dust in it.

-Nobade

Thank you. I appreciate the information.

[renzyb]

My ho'made powder isn't glazed. It actually seems to work better in flintlocks than commercial glazed powder does. Lights off easier, I guess. Talked with the guy who runs Powder, Inc. once about this exact subject. He said for pistols, shotguns, CAS shooting, plinking, etc. just use the unglazed that comes in 25 lb. bags. No need for the more expensive powder unless you are shooting long range or extremely precision events. Unfortunately the bags can't be shipped and many places that have them won't let you carry them in your car. But if you can find someone to sell you some it will work fine if you use comparable grain size. BTW, I believe "skirmish" and "Jack's battle powder" are also unglazed. At least they don't look like they are.

-Nobade

I would love to find somewhere that had 25lb bags


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[renzyb]

hmmm , a 25 pound bag is 7.50 a pound what would i put it in to store it , mason jars with lids maybe probably get close to 2 pounds in a quart jar

I just don't have enough empty powder cans

Where you finding these prices?


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[Fly]

Make your own, it cheaper that any you can buy. Under $5 a LB.

Fly

[peter72]

Make your own, it cheaper that any you can buy. Under $5 a LB.

Fly
Omg the hysteria that would create around my parts.
I can see the headlines now "local man gaoled for making explosives"
A few words about terror and "the gun lobby" just to reinforce the fear.


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[renzyb]

Make your own, it cheaper that any you can buy. Under $5 a LB.

Fly

I actually am a pyrotechnic hobbyist as well and do make my own I was just wondering.


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[indian joe]

buy decent quantity and its way under two bucks a pound (if you make your own charcoal)
(Greenhouse grade KNO3 from the farm supply - 99% pure - soluble - cheap)

[Standing Bear]

Omg the hysteria that would create around my parts.
I can see the headlines now "local man gaoled for making explosives"
A few words about terror and "the gun lobby" just to reinforce the fear.


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Peter, you obviously need to relocate!!!��

[peter72]

Peter, you obviously need to relocate!!!��
I wouldn't leave gods country just to be allowed to make BP. There are many more good things than bad down under.

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[Standing Bear]

No, no, no I don't mean leave Aussie land just relocate to a more tolerant or rural locale down under. I've been "out in the county" most of the time since graduation from college. More and more folks relocating here from such places as Dallas and California to get away from excess government and the PC police. Hell, I'm looking at moving West from here due to urban growth.
Good luck.
TC

[peter72]

Im lucky that I live in the country and can break out the BP firearms at will. But actually making the stuff would draw much unwanted attention from constabulary. Well maybe not so much making it as buying the materials.

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[dondiego]

So, you can buy black powder..........but you can't legally make it?

[SSGOldfart]

I've made it three or four times,still have a few pounds of my best on hand. Remember that safety most come first.... I'm staying away from blasting grade in my guns., I once worked packing blasting holes on a road project, that stuff isn't as stable as sporting grade.
Also if you start milling black powder it not "if ",
"it's when your mill burns down"
Be safe and enjoy the holy Black.

[Nobade]

AFIK blasting powder is made from sodium nitrate. It is quite hygroscopic and poor for use in guns. Keep that for making blueing salts and use potassium nitrate for gunpowder.

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