Anti-personal wad cutter, hard or soft alloy?

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Hello gang, so I'd like to make something simmilar to what Buffalo Bore offers, an anti-personal wad cutter. I have the Lee 148gr mould and I have a recipe that I like for both .38 spl and .357 Magnum.

Now comes the question. Would they do more damage as soft lead, possibly getting some expantion, or should I keep em nice n' hard so it keeps the edge to do more sharp cutting.

Thanks in advance for any advise.

[10-x]

Work up a boolit and load like the 70's "Quad Load".

[MtGun44]

For .38 Spl, you may not want to trade penetration for diameter, but with
.357 you should be able to have excess penetration to trade off, so softer.

Bill

[Outpost75]

You want to load what is most accurate and doesn't lead. At .357 velocity you will get some riveting, but there is no advantage to casting revolver bullets any harder than 12-13 BHN. In .38 Special+P wheelweights work fine.

[jmort]

Buffalo Bore are hard cast and will blow through two feet of ballistic gelatin at around 900 fps from a two inch barrel. Here is an article dated 9-24-2010 from Handguns Magazine, that I like, "Wicked Wadcutters", that show the potential of a hard cast wadcutter. I like straight-line penetration and two holes, one in and one out.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/ammunition_hg_wickedwadcutters_200901/

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Did some testing. Here's the results for those who think this is a good idea.

.38 spl 152 WC 3.4 Tightgroup 735fps S&W 642
.38 spl 152 WC 3.4 Tightgroup 799fps SP101
.38 spl 152 WC 3.4 Tightgroup 779fps S&W 627-5PC

.357 Magnum 152 WC 5.5 Bullseye 1090fps SP101
.357 Magnum 152 WC 5.5 Bullseye 1036fps S&W 627-5PC

Data for the .38 load comes from the Lyman cast book and I got the mag data from the Lee book. I'm pretty impressed with the numbers. The mag load kicks more than I'd like in the N-frame with wood grips, but the SP101 with hogues is comfy.

The .38 load is accurate as you'd expect despite being at the high end of the loading. Recoil is very light.

[MtGun44]

Power pistol will give much higher velocities than BE at the same pressures, if you
are looking for faster loads.

Bill

[Shiloh]

For .38 Spl, you may not want to trade penetration for diameter, but with
.357 you should be able to have excess penetration to trade off, so softer.

Bill

+1

Shiloh

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Where can I find power pistol data for Wadcutters?

[runfiverun]

i'd look on whomever makes it's website.

[cainttype]

I've used a bastardized version of this for years in compact J-frame 5-shot 38 Spcls, and you have to see it to appreciate it fully. Using swaging dies (I'm sure one of the mold makers here could hook you up), I swage a pure lead HBWC at 200-205 grains. A short run, hollow base first, into a point-forming die for just enough taper to use with a speedloader finishes the projectile. They're loaded to max length for whatever cylinder, then loaded to a velocity of 725 fps with Unique (because it was handy when working up the load and I don't fix it if it ain't broke).
I do chamber each round previous to use to basically size the bullet to fit the cylinder throats because they're a little too tight at those COALs.
With medium recoil, mimimal muzzle-blast, and a fairly light report these things are devastating. Both penetration and wound channels leave the impression that much larger, more powerful magnum type cartridges were used... And that's to well-seasoned magnum shooters.
It really has to be seen. Imagine a 200+ gr .358 mushrooming to .6+ and retaining 90% of it's weight. Envision walking downrange to find trenches large enough to lay 3 ft sections of 3" pipe in only to realize that the bullet eventually exited and continued downrange! A mild-mannered compact that will consistanty take out 4-5 gallon water jugs with authority.
It's always puzzled me why this type of load isn't commonly encountered. I've done my best for years with spreading the word to friends, hopefully this forum can help make this common knowledge to many, many more.

[wistlepig1]

Those things are bad news, back in the 70's I carried them in a Colt Detective (2nd gun) and " tested" them on some 4x4's, you would have to see it to believe it. I did note that they were for very close range, if I remember right about 10-15 feet. After that I am not sure you could hit the barn from inside it:holysheep.

[Zim]

I'll stand witness to the 200 gr severe hollow points. Did quite a bit of research on the British 380-200 round that replaced the .455. And that was without the hollow point for social purposes. Think it was also tested in the Strousburg goat tests.

The OP asked about the 148 gr mold he already has. I'd say cast them soft. Moderate velocity will work, but accuracy will still be that of WC. Less than 50 feet. Again works for social purposes. Leading does not matter since these will not be shot a lot and accuracy will deteriorate with range. Accurate within your range.

One other thought, WC are seated in the case. The 200's are seated out taking advantage of the entire cylinder length.

Good luck with your project and look for a 200 grainer to shoot long trenches in the mud for laying pipe. Oh and social work.

[Zim]

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/75f11fe4e235da7c69cabf94daa7dbd9-932.html

Just read this article on another thread posted by outpost (above) and it should be right down your alley.

[mdi]

One of my house guns has 148 gr. wadcutters, cast in WW, loaded over a stiff load of W231. I don't have a chrono, but I believe they are around 850 fps. I think they will not expand, but penetrate a full .38 diameter (from what I've read, same load will penetrate 11"-13" in gel). I think this load will get the job done without putting holes in my neighbors' houses...

FWIW; in the early '80s I played around with HBWCs loaded backwards and got poor results. Some cavities just collapsed, some cavities got clogged and became "solids", and a few, about 25% at most, would expand in wet newsprint...

[jmort]

"...from what I've read, same load will penetrate 11"-13" in gel"

It will do better than that. I would believe that your load would go at least 20"

Here is a Federal Match "Soft" 148 grain wadcutter out of a 2" J-Frame going around 600 fps blowing through 12" of 20% ballistic gelatin. Love this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iolV5KOUtsc

A lot of people are overly concerned about "energy dump" of handgun bullets in my opinion. What is the energy dump of a .358 spike driven through a torso? Not much.

[jonp]

"...from what I've read, same load will penetrate 11"-13" in gel"

It will do better than that. I would believe that your load would go at least 20"

Here is a Federal Match "Soft" 148 grain wadcutter out of a 2" J-Frame going around 600 fps blowing through 12" of 20% ballistic gelatin. Love this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iolV5KOUtsc

A lot of people are overly concerned about "energy dump" of handgun bullets in my opinion. What is the energy dump of a .358 spike driven through a torso? Not much.
Thats a great video and exactly what you are looking for. Max energy dump in the target. Surprising to me from this round. Im going.to get some and try it with wet newspaper and red dot, bullseye and 231.