1st Time (And Hopefully Last) Shooting Full Auto 1911

[Foto Joe]

Twas an interesting morning yesterday. The plan was to take a 1911 and a SAA out to test some new loads with my chronograph with a buddy of mine. With the chrono set up and a rest I sat down to take the first shot with my S&W Stainless 1911 through the chrono at a target at about 15 yards. When I squeezed off the first round my beautiful 1911 ran away in full auto for what turned out to be five rounds!!:shock:

When everything came to a stop a split second later I took inventory of my body parts and found them all where they were supposed to be, then I looked up at the chronograph and wonder of wonders the sky shields were even still in place and there weren't parts scattered all over the ground. When I managed to get my mind around what had just happened I loaded an additional six rounds one at a time and removed the mag to fire them one at a time. Each shot yielded no hammer drop on cycling so I put a few in the mag and fired those without incident. All told I put about 50-75 additional rounds through the gun and it functioned flawlessly like usual but never did fire it through the chronograph again, why temp fate.

When I got home I pulled it down and cleaned it and found nothing out of the ordinary although I didn't strip the action. Tomorrow morning I'm taking it to a shop here in town that specializes in 1911's and pretty much only 1911's. I'll let the expert pull the action and see if he can determine what happened. I don't want to pull it apart myself and accidentally "fix" what ever is ailing the poor girl.

Talk about a great way to induce a flinch!!

[prsman23]

Dang. Talk about a surprise. After checking that all my body parts were there I'd check my pants too.

[hawaii five-0]

Sounds like the firing pin was temporarily stuck forward, causing slam fires. I have seen a broken pin do this, but a small piece of debris (torn primer,etc..)could also cause it to stick forward

[Dusty Bannister]

If you were going to have the smith look at it, it would probably have been a better idea to STOP shooting it, make it safe and leave it the heck alone so he could see what was to be seen.

[Shiloh]

Tomorrow morning I'm taking it to a shop here in town that specializes in 1911's and pretty much only 1911's. I'll let the expert pull the action and see if he can determine what happened. I don't want to pull it apart myself and accidentally "fix" what ever is ailing the poor girl.

Talk about a great way to induce a flinch!!

There have been several possible scenarios posted. Wise decision to have the experts look at it. The reason the chronograph was intact is the rounds went over it. My guess is they missed the berm or whatever backstop you use as well.

Shiloh

[gray wolf]

That is usually the function of a worn disconnector.
This for starters

[rintinglen]

Second time I ever shot a 1911, I had the same fun. There were only three rounds in the magazine when it went full auto, but the gun was pointing nearly straight up when the the noise stopped. I was 16 at the time, and though I'd shot a rifle a fair few times before, that was only the third time I'd ever shot a handgun. My dad's friend took the gun to a gunsmith, who replaced the disconnecter, but I never saw or shot that gun again, nor if the truth be told, did I want to. Scared me half to death.

[BruceB]

A pre-70-series Gold Cup .45 I owned would fire full-auto on request.

Just had to take a FIRM grip on the open-slide pistol with one hand, and trip the slide release with the other.... BRAAAAAP! Empty magazine......

You might say it was a handful! It never went FA on its own (fortunately).

[Tatume]

The same thing happened to me at the National Matches one year; very embarrassing alibi. Fortunately, the rifle was an Army team rifle, and the armorer swapped it for another while he fixed it. Interestingly, he didn't believe me, and said I must have "milked" the trigger. He stuck a fresh magazine in, aimed downrange, and emptied the magazine in one burst. He didn't say anything else to me about milking triggers!

As a civilian gun owner this is something you really shouldn't talk about. The BATFE considers your M1911 to be a machinegun, and they have burned people for this type of malfunction in the past. You should get it fixed, and keep a copy of the work order. If it was mine, I would send it to S&W. And then I would keep quiet about it.

Take care, Tom

[gray wolf]

Ditto on the above.

[azrednek]

but I never saw or shot that gun again, nor if the truth be told, did I want to. Scared me half to death.

I had a friend's WW2 bring-back 32 auto go full auto. Only 6 rds but scared the living daylights out of me. I was expecting a gentle recoil as anyone would expect out of a 32. The pistol's owner sold it to the gunsmith that couldn't repair it. The gunsmith in turn sold it to Numrich to be salvaged for parts. The parts needed to repair it were just not available.

[Dale53]

I had a good friend (who was also a very fine NRA Bullseye shooter). He had a bullet trap in his basement. His 1911 went full auto and shot an overhead water pipe in two. It was a bit exciting until he got the water shut off.:oops:

Dale53

[243winxb]

After the lube wears off the hammer sear engagement, it won't go full auto. My guess is- Light trigger pull is the problem.

[azrednek]

As a civilian gun owner this is something you really shouldn't talk about. The BATFE considers your M1911 to be a machinegun, and they have burned people for this type of malfunction in the past. You should get it fixed, and keep a copy of the work order. If it was mine, I would send it to S&W. And then I would keep quiet about it.

Take care, Tom

Good Advice!! I heard something on the news about a Hollywood type knowingly selling a malfunctioning 22 rifle that according to the news reporter shot like a machinegun. All I recall hearing the celebrity whose name I don't recall was arrested or under investigation by ATF. I don't recall hearing any follow up to the news report.

[35remington]

If a 1911 goes full auto with all 8 rounds they will not only be gone in less than a second, they'll be gone in quite considerably less than a half second.

No kidding. The cyclic rate exceeds that of an MG 42.

[45 Shooter]

The same thing happened to me at the National Matches one year; very embarrassing alibi. Fortunately, the rifle was an Army team rifle, and the armorer swapped it for another while he fixed it. Interestingly, he didn't believe me, and said I must have "milked" the trigger. He stuck a fresh magazine in, aimed downrange, and emptied the magazine in one burst. He didn't say anything else to me about milking triggers!

As a civilian gun owner this is something you really shouldn't talk about. The BATFE considers your M1911 to be a machinegun, and they have burned people for this type of malfunction in the past. You should get it fixed, and keep a copy of the work order. If it was mine, I would send it to S&W. And then I would keep quiet about it.

Take care, Tom

^ This! By the way, there's a black suv down the street from you with gubment plates on it.

[Foto Joe]

Nope no black helicopters or strange vans hanging around, it's probably not safe for them anyway in this part of Wyoming. Since I'm NOT selling the gun but getting it fixed I'm not too concerned about it. If the NSA were following my posts I doubt I'd have ever gotten a fraction of the security clearances my work requires.

Now, if I'd have posted bragging about how I converted one to FA then I'd be not only an idiot but I'd deserve to have Eric Holder export my gun along with Zimmerman's to Mexico. I'll post back when I get a diagnosis later in the week, just maybe it can help some other poor schlepp from having the same issue. That's what these forums are all about anyway right?

[azrednek]

Nope no black helicopters or strange vans hanging around,

How about drones??

[Foto Joe]

I've been wondering what that "buzzing" sound was.

[44man]

I built up a 1911 for a friend and he wanted a light trigger. The gun is super accurate and we have no trouble at all. He wanted to sell it to my friend Pete but Pete would make it go auto every time. We laughed at him because we could not do it. We really tried but it was always one shot at a time but no matter what Pete did it would double or triple. He would not buy the gun, it scared him.
It turns out it was his finger action because he has the shakes. A cop friend was here with a 1911 and he could use two fingers to make the 1911 full auto, I can not do it.

[Tatume]

It's actually fairly easy to make a gun shoot multiple shots and appear to be shooting full auto. The gun must be held very loosely in one hand, and the trigger is operated with the other hand. The two hands are allowed to move with respect to each other. A right handed shooter would hold the gun with the left hand, and the forefinger of the right hand would be held stiffly inside the trigger guard. As the shot fires, the gun recoils, allowing the trigger to reset, and the gun "bounces" off the left hand, firing the next shot. The gun is running back and forth with a stationary finger inside the trigger guard.

There used to be a device marketed to assist in doing this. It was called a "Hellfire Trigger." It didn't really do anything except teach the user how to manipulate the gun.

This is actually legal, because the trigger is being pulled for each shot. It is also completely useless, as aimed fire is just about impossible.

Take care, Tom

[mikeym1a]

Okay. Let's get back to the OP... What did the target look like, and what did the Chrono read, and did it capture all the rounds? Results, Man!! Results!!![smilie=s:

[Green Frog]

Back in my High Standard days, a local bottom feeder picked up a pre-War Hammer gun that somebody had cobbled together and that needed something or other including a sear. Anyway, a mismatched sear was dropped in and fortunately I tested it under controlled conditions... we had a pipe with sand to shoot into. Well, I stuck a mag with 3 rounds in the gun and stuck it down the tube... when I pulled the trigger there was one loud, rolling boom as all three rounds went off so quickly you really couldn't distinguish between the individual shots. After that, I tore the whole thing down and rebuilt it correctly, even though he was not happy about the bill! :mad: I couldn't let that thing out of the shop. :shock:

I've had other guns (including 1911s) double on me, but that was the only AD that resulted in multiple rounds from a single trigger pull. And that one experience was quite enough!

Froggie

[koehlerrk]

When I was about 8, I was plinking with my uncles' 10/22... Ten-shot rotary mags, one shot at a time, and then got one that went all at once. My uncle loaded a mag, and it did it again, but he said he had his finger off the trigger... He proceeded to put it back in his truck. Learned later that it broke the disconnecter.... he replaced it and it was back to normal next time I got to shoot it.

[hickfu]

Boy I bet that woke you up!!!!



Doc

[azrednek]

There used to be a device marketed to assist in doing this. It was called a "Hellfire Trigger." It didn't really do anything except teach the user how to manipulate the gun.

Take care, Tom

The old bag Nancy Pelosi uses what she describes as trigger devices, slider stocks and even rubber bands to convert the horrible so-called assault rifle into machineguns.




I've had other guns (including 1911s) double on me, but that was the only AD that resulted in multiple rounds from a single trigger pull. And that one experience was quite enough!

Froggie

I have a mid 70's AR-15 Colt SP-1 that occasionally doubles and one time tripled on me. I'm told the fix is a Titanium firing pin. I rarely shoot it anymore and prefer to keep everything original.

[Foto Joe]

@mikeym1a
The target had one hole in it about 2" @ 12 o'clock. The chrono reading I don't recall even looking at, I was more interested in "is it still in one piece?"

I dropped the 1911 off on Tuesday morning at the gunsmiths. I haven't heard anything yet but he told me would work on it that day. I don't work on Fridays so I told him I'd stop by tomorrow, if it's ready I may or may not have time this weekend to go out and try it again as my .429 SWC mold showed up this week and I have a 44-40 SAA that is very hungry and lonely.

[40-82]

I had a 1911 double on me once. I was not completely sure that some mistake I made with the trigger didn't cause the double, but I knew the double ruined my confidence in that gun. I keep shooting the 1911 loading two rounds at a time and sure enough 75 rounds later and it doubled again.

I took it apart and found a chip missing on the engagement surface of the sear. I replaced the sear and solved the problem. I've also seen 1911's with trigger jobs done by nationally famous gunsmiths fire when the shooter drops the slide to pick up a loaded round from the magazine. Sometimes even after a fair amount of shooting the first sign that something is wrong with the gun is a discharge when the slide is dropped on a loaded magazine, which explains why I don't like to keep a 1911 with a loaded magazine and an empty chamber. I prefer to chamber a loaded round in a place where if the gun fires, it will be only embarrassing and no person will be in danger or property destroyed. I've loaded 1911's thousands of times for many years and I've never personally experienced a discharge on dropping the slide, but after seeing it happen I've changed my habits.

I'm not singling out the 1911. I just have more experience with them than any other semi-automatic. I'd be just as careful where I loaded any other semi-automatic.

[blackthorn]

The old bag Nancy Pelosi uses what she describes as trigger devices, slider stocks and even rubber bands to convert the horrible so-called assault rifle into machineguns.



I have a mid 70's AR-15 Colt SP-1 that occasionally doubles and one time tripled on me. I'm told the fix is a Titanium firing pin. I rarely shoot it anymore and prefer to keep everything original.

Have you left a letter outlining the problem atached to, or stored with the gun for whom ever gets the gun when you die? If not, it might be something to consider.

[hickfu]

Ive watched old clips with guys shooting a Thompson .45 machine gun and how hard they tried to keep the muzzle down... I cant imagine how a 1911 would be, especially if you were not ready for it!!!


Doc

[Foto Joe]

I've fired an original Thompson and yes they aren't the easiest thing to control. If I still had access to one is be tempted to load up some 160gr LRNFP's, I'll bet those would be a kick in the shorts. Unfortunately real machine guns just eat way too much to justify the hassle.

[RKJ]

That happened to me back in the 80's. A friend had a new 1911 that he wanted a lighter trigger on and our local gun shop/smith did the work. What he didn't tell him was that he shaved the sear (I guess he was a Bullseye shooter in the day, at least according to him). We were at our local river and he pulled it out and asked if I wanted to shoot it. I put the magazine in and dropped the slide release, luckily it was pointed downrange and it fired 7 rounds faster than I can say it. Needless to say we were awe struck (definitely an understatement). The guy tried to chastise us (we went to this shop all the time together) that any damn fool knows you don't let the slide go home at full speed after a trigger job. There's more stories about this guy but, you get the picture. Shame on us for spending as much time and money with him as we did.

[Foto Joe]

Many years ago I purchased Mossberg 500 alley sweeper as a home defense weapon (still have it). That gun slam fired on me one time when it was new and gave me a whole new respect when closing actions on any gun that is cocked once the bolt is closed. Luckily I was outside when it happened or I would have had a LOT of interior drywall repair to do. Although I've never had that issue with a 1911 it's always in the back of my mind when I chamber a round and when I have to do so inside I put the muzzle in the direction of something that will stop it hopefully if something goes wrong which usually means the bed (not a water bed). A couple of weeks ago our daughter was visiting with three of the grandkids one of which is four years old. This meant that my carry gun needed to be unloaded when not on me and reloaded each time we went somewhere since I didn't want it in the gun safe. All I can say is that I'm very glad that the runaway I had last Sunday didn't happen before they arrived or I would have been in major paranoia every time that slide came forward with it pointed at the bed.

[Victor N TN]

That is usually the function of a worn disconnector. I witnessed this happening once, and 8 rounds went in less than 1 second!


Back in the late 1970s I was posted next to a shooter shooting at 25 yards NRA timed fire. His pistol went full auto and almost scared me half to death. The following match as we were talking I asked him about his recent troubles. He said he replaced the dis-connecter, trigger and sear with new Wilson matched parts kit. Back then you could get these 3 parts in a little baggy that had been set in a fixture and hand finished to give a specified pull. It's been a while. But I want to think they ran from 2 to 5 pounds pull.

[Foto Joe]

Yesterday morning in my travels around town I stopped by Borks Guns and picked up my 1911 and had a little conversation with Tony Bork about why she might have "ran away" on me. He had done a complete tear down right to the screws and firing pin and found among other things that it was pretty dirty inside, one of these days I'm going to have to get up the courage to learn how to completely strip a 1911 even if it means taking it to a gun smith in a baggie to put it back together. He said that the only really interesting thing that he found once it was apart was that the disconnector was about .007" out of spec which he replaced. He ruled out a "bump" fire as a possibility as the trigger over-travel screw adjustment was fine and also eliminated worries about it being a firing pin issue. I now have a REAL nice trigger on this gun with no creep and a nice crisp break to it as well. I'm finding out that custom 1911 builders usually don't have anything positive to say about factory triggers on these things. I haven't shot it yet and won't have time until next weekend but I suspect this will have been the last run away I have on this particular 1911. Before I leave for the southern climes this fall I'm going to have to get my compact carry gun in to him to let him work his magic on the trigger of that one. Altogether the damage to my wallet totaled $100.

[guicksylver]

Thanks for the memories

[RoyEllis]

Wait til you have a Browning Auto 5 12ga run away in the duck blind & the game warden is 3rd man with ya!

[azrednek]

Wait til you have a Browning Auto 5 12ga run away in the duck blind & the game warden is 3rd man with ya!

I missed a similar adventure back in the 70's. At a trap and skeet range they had a classic shotgun night. Right before I arrived they had an older Browning 12 ga go full auto. The club's manager put a stop to shooters lining up waiting for a chance to shoot it. The Browning's owner was told to put it in his trunk or be 86'd from the club.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm pretty fortunate, I guess. I have yet to have a firearm "run away" while firing. I can't recall being present at such an event, either. All of my full-auto experiences have been intentional. :)

[azrednek]

Have you left a letter outlining the problem atached to, or stored with the gun for whom ever gets the gun when you die? If not, it might be something to consider.

It is going to my son, already listed in my will and trust. He is fully aware of the problem. If a thief gets it before I croak, I hope the muzzle is aimed at his manhood if a mis-hap occurs.

I've read on the net but never personally experienced it. Whomever shared their experience on the net may have had it happen, was just repeating something he heard or imagined. The earlier AR's prone to doubling can also fire when the bolt is dropped. I've also read net chatter claiming primers not properly seated especially military brass without the primer crimp properly removed can cause doubling or setting off a round slammed hard into the chamber by hitting the bolt release. You know "has to be true I saw it on the internet". Since reading it though I am a bit more cautious as I should be anyway. Making sure the muzzle is down range when I slap the bolt release.

[Baryngyl]

Had it do it once on a older tube fed 22RF, it shot 1/2 Dz shots or so all at once, ended up it had bent a piece inside, fixed it and it has never happened again.



Michael Grace

[Dave L]

Over the years I have had a 1911 run the mag empty once and had a different one double each time I fire it. The cause? DIRTY DIRTY DIRTY! After a thorough cleaning, both guns went back to normal. I did have a 3rd one go full auto due to a totally incompetent trigger job someone did with a course file. After replacing the ruined parts, that one also went back to safe operation.
One time I was shooting with a class 3 dealer friend. We were shooting a Russian squad automatic rifle (don't remember the model) with a 75 or 100 round drum magazine that ran away. You think a 1911 runaway is scary, That 7.62x54R with 75 or 100 rounds of uncontrolled fire was very scary. Fun ( because no one got hurt and no damage to anything) but scary.

[NuJudge]

I've been wondering what that "buzzing" sound was.

If you are like me, it is Tinnitis.

[3006guns]

A very good way to get your attention and stock up on fresh undies to boot!

My mother bought me a used Savage 1910 .32 auto pistol for my birthday many years ago. Cute little thing and 10 shot to boot, which was really something before all the "wonder nines" came out. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of this gun's reputation for going full auto due to a worn or dirty disconnector. I loaded it and squeezed off the first shot.....the first of many as that little thing vomited all 10 rounds down range. The Savage motto for this gun was "10 shots quick". No kidding.

Off to the gunsmith. I told him "If you can't fix it, I don't want it". Well since replacement parts were out of the question he couldn't fix it, so the gun stayed with him.