FA-36 ammo in a Garand?

[mikenbarb]

I have a Springfield Armory Garand and acquired a ammo can of FA 36 Ball ammo and was wondering if anyone has fired this lot in their Garand? I know its corrosive but nothing a little Windex and a good cleaning cant take care of.
PS- It all seems to be in great condition and doesn't show any signs of corrosion or brittleness in the neck area.
And does anyone know the load that was used in this? Thanks in advance, Mike

[Dutchman]

I wouldn't. There is no reliable way to ascertain burn rate of that powder. Don't do it.

1936 is quite old for any ammo. You'll find that there is degraded accuracy with old military ammo like this. Some guys will bitchmoancomplain because their rifle isn't accurate but they fail to realize the downside of shooting old ammo is it ain't much good for nuttin' except making noise.

Dutch

[mikenbarb]

Yeah I had the same feeling at first but the ammo was stored inside its original can and its in new condition. I may just salvage the bullets and dump the rest.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Have you looked into its value to collectors?

Others have pointed out the corrosive primers.

1936 was the year the Garand was adopted. The powder burn rate is probably acceptable.

Absent any corrosion, the brass is likely good, stout stuff we're used to from mil-surp .30-06, but I'd look at the possibility that is has more value to collectors.

dale in Louisiana

[mikenbarb]

Great idea Dale thanks. I didnt even consider it for collectors. Wasn't it the M1 ammo back then before they came out with the M2?
I also found a stockpile of FA 52 and WRA 53 that I know is fine for using in my the Garands.

[Outpost75]

Windex is not the best cleaner for corrosive primers. Plain hot soapy water is best, followed by a water displacing, dewaxed, polarized oil.

The only thing about the Windex which is good is the handy sprayer. Pour out the Windex, fill the spray bottle with plain water, optional add 1 teaspoon of Dawn dishwashing liquid, if you want and also optional 1 oz. of automotive waterpump lubricant, if you want.

Fairly standard black powder cleaner similar to "Moose Milk."

But is it the WATER that does the work. You don't need the alcohol, ammonia and other stuff that Windex has in it.

[Dean D.]

Hi Mike, nice find! But...I'll have to weigh in on the side of not shooting them in your Garand. I wouldn't want to have to clean mine afterwards and chance not getting the job done thoroughly. The gas operating system on the Garand would spread the corrosive residue to a lot more areas than in a bolt rifle. I have heard of folks not worrying shooting those type loads in bolt action rifles like the 03-A3. JMHO

[N4AUD]

As far as shooting old ammo- I've shot 100 year old ammunition that was fine. I don't shoot corrosive in my Garand but I wouldn't toss those cartridges.

[mroliver77]

Your right Mike. M-2 arrived in 38. That M-1 was some wicked stuff! Is your ammo in a container?
J

[10-x]

INHO there is more collector value than anything else,what "can" is it in? Pics would be nice.

[Char-Gar]

If I had some good clean FA 36 ammo, I would shoot it in my Garand. The Garand was adopted in 1936 and the caliber standardized for the 30-06 as their were large stores of that ammo left over from WWI. That indicates that the early arsenal ammo was compatible with the Garand gas system. The FA primers of that era were remarkable stable and long lived.

If you can find some of the old water based GI Bore Cleaner it will make short work of the corrosive salts left in the barrel, plus do a descent, if not outstanding, job as a powder solvent. I bought a case of the cans some years back and it works fine. If you can't find any of this stuff, the soapy water as Outpost75 suggests is the way to go. I don't know where the Windex information comes from, but most likely was transposed from the black powder folks. Black powder residue and corrosive primer residue can rust barrels if not removed, but they are not the same stuff and do not cause rust for the same reason. You need water or a water based cleaner to remove the corrosive salts left behind in barrels from chlorate primers.

I am old enough to have fired many thousands of rounds of corrosive primers GI ammo though 03s and Garands, and would not hesitate to do it again. I had allot of such ammo given to me from old stores at the National Guard Armory. As the Korean war stuff replaced the WWII stuff, the older stuff was passed along to local shooters. I don't know if this was legal or not, but it was done. There is no risk of damage if the rifle is cleaned with the right stuff. GI Bore Cleaner was for sale at Whitman's Army store for a dime a can. No reason to be
afraid corrosive primed ammo!

[Outpost75]

Your FA36 ammo is probably Ball M1, which has a 174-grain FMJ boattail bullet at 2640 f.p.s. instrumental velocity measured at 78 ft. from the muzzle, MV approximately 2700 fps. No reason you cannot shoot it in your Garand as long as you clean properly.

Here is a cross posting from another forum on how to clean after corrosive primers:

US military primers produced prior to about 1953 caused rusting in humid climates because potassium chlorate is used as an oxidizer. Upon combustion this converts to potassium chloride, which attracts ambient moisture from the atmosphere in the same manner as ordinary table salt. Chlorate salts are water soluable, but not oil soluable. To quickly remove the salts the best thing is to use boiling hot soapy water. Boiling water is best because it evaporates quickly of its own heat, simplifying drying. If you don't have a means to heat the water, cold water will do. So will leftover tea or coffee or standing water soaked up on a patch left in a hoof print!

I was taught by a WW2 vet to bend a wire cage to hang a metal canteen near the exhaust manifold of your farm tractor, pickup, Jeep, M151, etc. Lacking that use your Natick cooker or build a small "Indian fire." Leave the canteen lid slightly loose so that steam can escape while it heats as you drive to the range or back and forth between the pits and firing line. When ready to clean your weapons, snug the lid and lift the hot canteen out of its cage by the cap chain, then pour out 1/2 a canteen cup full of hot water. Use your pocket knife or K-bar to scrape about about 1/2 teaspoon of flakes from your bar of green GI soap, Calgon or Fels Naptha into the hot water. If your bore is rough and tends to metal foul, use cake Bon Ami wiped and worked to a lather on your hot, wet patch.

Put your "soap patch" through the loop tip of your M10 cleaning rod and stir the hot water vigorously until it is nice and sudsy.

Do not use your "oil patch" or your "inspection patch" for this purpose, because your platoon sergeant will chew you out and not issue you any new patches for being a *******! You be the daily Gomer. You are issued only three patches at a time because "War is hell! Some poor seasick merchant mariner braved Atlantic storms and U-boats, barfing his guts out to bring those precious patches to you! Treat them with the same reverence as you would your girl friend's panties! " Replacements will be issued only after rifle inspection, if you pass !

1. Field strip your M1, .45 pistol or Springfield on your folded shelter half spread across your vehicle hood or bunk. Rest the barreled action with the sights down, so that water running out of the chamber does not run into the action.

2. Wipe the bore with your wet "soap patch" of hot soapy water, passing through the bore both ways, TEN times. Remove your dirty "soap patch" but DO NOT throw it away! Place it back into the soapy water for washing and repeated re-use until you are done.

3. Now change to your bristle brush. Wet the brush in the soapy water and pass it back and forth through the bore TEN times.

4. Now lather up, squeeze and wring out your used "soap patch" squeezing out as much of the water as you can. Put it back on the loop tip, run once through the bore, remove, wash, wring out again and repeat! If you still see carbon on your "soap patch" go back to #3 and repeat. If bore and patch appear clean, then use washed and wrung out "soap patch" on your combination tool to clean the chamber, gas cylinder, gas cylinder plug, operating rod piston and bolt face. Then again wash and rinse soap patch, wring out and put carefully away for later inspection by your platoon sergeant.

5. Now take "oil patch" and apply VVL800 weapons oil in a stream making an "X" crossing corner to corner, in the form of St Andrews cross. If you don't know who St. Andrew, was GySgt. Humphrey will repeat the history lesson for you (*see below). If you don't have military weapons oil, ordinary Hoppes or Outers Gun Oil is OK, but a "water displacing" dewaxed, polarized oil is best. Roll the patch tightly lengthwise to the diameter of a cigarette, squeezing and twisting tightly to evenly distribute the oil. Now insert "oil patch" into your loop tip and pass through bore back and forth TEN times, then remove the patch from the loop tip and use to wipe chamber, bolt face, gas cylinder, gas cylinder plug and operating rod piston.

6. Inspect "oil patch." If it has more than trace amounts of carbon, rinse out in the soapy water, get it as clean as you can, wring out and go back to step 2 and repeat all again!

7. If "oil patch" has only slight traces of carbon, you are allowed to break silence and now may respectfully hum the Marine Corps Hymn as you then use "oil patch to wipe operating rod track in receiver, bolt lugs, bolt face, hammer hooks of trigger group, sights and exposed metal.

8. Apply ONE DROP of weapons oil to your paint brush, brush out the operating rod track in the receiver then brush away all loose dust and dirt from metal parts.

9. Take your Popsicle stick and dip one half pea sized dab of grease from your grease pot. LIGHTLY lubricate the operating rod cam pocket, rear surface of locking lugs, hammer hooks and shiny spot under barrel where operating rod rubs as it reciprocates.

10. Reassemble your rifle, wiping all excess oil from its exterior with the "back forty" end of your baby diaper not used for shining brass or shoes, then dry and remove excess oil from the bore with the "Inspection Patch."

Now lay out "Soap Patch", "Oil Patch" and "Inspection Patch" across the footrail of your bunk, prepare for inspection by Platoon Sergeant and pray quietly.

*[Andrew was a Galilean fisherman working in the Black Sea before he and his brother Simon Peter became disciples of Jesus Christ. He was crucified by the Romans on an X-shaped cross at Patras in Greece. Hundreds of years later, his remains were moved to Constantinople and then, in the 13th century, to Amalfi in southern Italy where they remain to this day. Legend has it that the Greek monk known as St Regulus was ordered in a vision to take a few relics of Andrew to the ‘ends of the earth’ for safe keeping. He set off on a sea journey and eventually came ashore on the coast of Fife at a settlement which is now the modern town of St Andrews, Scotland. In 832 AD Andrew is said to have appeared in a vision to a Pictish king the night before a battle against the Northumbrians in what is now the village of Athelstaneford in East Lothian. On the day of battle a Saltire, or X-shaped cross, appeared in the sky above the battlefield and the Picts were victorious. The Saltire, or Saint Andrew’s Cross, was subsequently adopted as the national emblem and flag of the Scots, against a deep blue field symbolizing the waters of the North Sea. 100 years later it would appear also on the flag of the Confederate States of America, against a scarlet field symbolizing the spilled blood of martyred patriots of Scots-Irish descent, who comprised the majority of Confederate forces].

[Char-Gar]

Good bit of information, plus a copious amount of humor.

When I was a kid and shooting many rounds of WWII ball ammo through my Remington Rand 1911A1, I would pull out the barrel and put it in a sauce pan filled with water and a little dish soap and bring it to a boil on the top of the kitchen range. It was removed with tongs (hot, hot, hot) and held under hot tap water to flush. I then blew down the barrel and it was instantly dry. I pass or two with a bore brush followed by a patch or two and it was done. The last patch was a little oily. Never had a spec of rust.

[mikenbarb]

Its a full GI can of ammo that was sold as surplus im sure because the can says 7.62MM, M82 which this ammo isnt. The guy I got it from had it in storage for years for his garand but never shot any of it because he had newer non corrosive stuff that he was using up first. Im going to put it aside and proably Gun Broker it when I get around to it but I may send a few thru my 03-06 first just to check out the accuracy.:smile:
I got the Windex info from a oldtimer that was shooting corrosive at the range and he said it worked great but it needed to be followed up by soapy water and oil so I will elimanate the Windex step and stick with the soap water method. Thank you everyone for the replies.

[Bob S]

The M1 rifle was designed to fire the M1 Ball cartridge.

Some years ago, I had a substantial quantity of FA 37 ball, packed in brass clips in 20 round pasteboard boxes. It wasn't "match", but that particular lot shot as well as, or better than any M72 match that I have fired. I shot the last of this in a match at Reading, Mass. in 1984, not in an M1, but an 03A3 with Redfield 70 ST rear sight. I'm still reloading the cases for the same rifle.

YMMV .....

Resp'y,
Bob S.