Scope elevation maxed out.

[slim1836]

What do you do when you run out of elevation on your scope?

Also, has anyone ever run out of windage adjustment?

Any help is appreciated.

Slim

[Love Life]

You may need to get a scope rail (20 MOA is usually perfect) or put some shims under the mount to raise the scope.

[HangFireW8]

What do you do when you run out of elevation on your scope?

Also, has anyone ever run out of windage adjustment?

Any help is appreciated.

Slim

Wedge shaped brass shims made of cartridge brass under both mounts or both ends... If you only shim one end you'll torque the scope.

HF

[slim1836]

Love Life,

I did shim up the front ring using a piece of business card. That got me a little more elevation, however, just shimming up one ring seems (to me) that the scope tube could be in a bind if much more is added.

I'm just wanting to get others input as to how they did it.

I have a M/N and a Tikka .308 that I want to reach out with using cast boolits and thus the question.

Thanks,

Slim

[slim1836]

HangFireW8,

Do you recommend adding same amount of shim stock under each end?

Slim

[Love Life]

As said above ensure you shim both mounts. I would get a 20 MOA rail and call it a day. They make them so the screw into your scope holes, but you may need to get a different set of rings depending on which rail you go with. Or, if you have a mil dot scope, zero at your preferred range using the 2 highest dot.

[fouronesix]

First, if the scope has run out of elevation something may be wrong with the match between the receiver and bases/rings. How far are you wanting to shoot? Also, shimming the front base yields less elevation. For more elevation you need to shim the rear base. And, you're right- too much shim (front or rear) can put a bind in the scope. Things I can think of to check: make sure the bases/rings are correct for the model/action/receiver and make sure the scope is not on the fritz. I think Burris makes rings that have elliptical inserts that can adjust for a certain amount of run-out if needed. If you do shim, you can reduce the amount of off-axis "bind" to the scope tube by lapping the rings with a scope lapping rod once the bases/rings are mounted to the receiver.

The only time I've ever had windage problems on a rifle was when the base mounting holes were drilled off-axis to the bore line or receiver center line. The old Leupold/Redfield one piece base system addressed that.

And yes, the suggestion about using a rail is a good one. You can use a stiff rail instead of two piece base- then shim the rear of the rail and still avoid most if not all the off-axis bind.

[slim1836]

Thanks guys, I think I'll look for the 20 MOA rail for the Tikka and go with it.

The M/N may be a different issue since the dovetail above the receiver is 3/8". Any suggestions?

Slim

[country gent]

I used 20 moa rails on my long range rifles as it kept the scope much closer to zero and a clearer view. If using 2 piece blocks make sure front is in front and back is in back as some rifles used diffrent block hieghts front and back. Also make sure both rings are seating and sitting down all the way on the blocks. I always had plenty of elevation at 600 yds (J words though 223 243 and 308) it wasnt till 1000 this became an issue. Lapping te rings is a good way to keep the scope stress free. Error" x sight radious" ( distance between rings here) divided by range in inches will give you an idea how much you need.

[country gent]

Oh an after thought to consider is with a full 20 moa rail the rifles may not zero at 200 yds.

[swheeler]

Slim you can shim the rear base only, then lap the rings. I think Burris makes rings with offset inserts for elevation or windage. Take the paper shim out from under the front base you put there, that just worked the opposite of what you wanted.

[LynC2]

I like the Burris Signature Zee Rings. One can gain a lot of extra elevation or windage using them with the posi-align offset inserts. If you are shooting 1000 + yds, you will need the special tapered bases too.

[Love Life]

Gotta have enough up!!

[slim1836]

Gotta have enough up!!
Perhaps I should just get the little blue pill for it.

Slim

[imashooter2]

I like the Burris Signature Zee Rings. One can gain a lot of extra elevation or windage using them with the posi-align offset inserts. If you are shooting 1000 + yds, you will need the special tapered bases too.

I have a set of these on an old Marlin waffle top that was drilled poorly. The offset bushings make it easy to get pretty dramatic windage and elevation corrections.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

On the cast boolits board it might well be that the bases are screwed to the same tapered section of barrel, preferably round, rather than to differently shaped sections of a bolt action etc. In this case you could glue or double sided tape a piece of silicon carbide paper to the barrel where it tapers a little smaller, then use it to abrade the front base a little thinner. Continue till youu have bright metal over the complete bottom surfaces of both bases, but most of the metal removal is from the front one. This method makes a small adjustment very neatly but pretty laboriously. For this you should keep the rings screwed onto the scope as a guide, or onto a piece of one inch steel rod if you are worried about bending the tube, although little force will ever be applied in this method).

Alternatively you could grease or wax the barrel or action, and very gently screw home the bases on a mixture of epoxy and a little lamp black (or Brownells black pigment). If you are worried about its strength or rigidity, include a little iron filings, steel wool or chopped glass fibre. Under the rear base put a small piece of card or metal as well, and under the front one only a very thin layer of the goo. Then trim off the surplus and tighten up the screws when it is hard. You will then have both bases firmly bedded on something which won't crumble, and are at the same angle without straining the tube.

[Hamish]

There are several airgun rails made that will fit the M/N dovetail that are designed to raise the elevation of the scope. This is one:

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_Drooper_Scope_Rail_11mm_to_Weaver_Adapter_Comp ensates_for_Droop_Stops_Scope_Shift/4191

[bobthenailer]

A+ on the Burris signurture Z rings with avalible offset inserts , i had to use these on 2 of my rifles because i also ran out of elevation adj

[hiram]

You can try reversing the rings. Switch the front to the rear and the rear to the front.

[felix]

Rule: always keep the cross hair center physically in the center of the optical scope when mounting by bore sighting, adjusting MOUNTS. To assure the scope centers, put the scope out of focus as much as possible and move the cross hairs to where they don't move against the background while moving your eye position all over the place. The scope is placed on a box (indoors where it is cool) with v-notches cut into the box to hold the scope pointing out towards good light. Now mount the scope, adjusting mounts to satisfy the most useful shooting range. ... felix

[captbligh]

Someone may have already mentioned it, but I didn't see anyone recommend using a one piece base if you need to shim. I've got an old Husqvarna with the FN Mauser action and had to shim for elevation. Got a one piece base, shimmed it and lapped the rings. The rings were aligned nicely and no more bluing then normal came off them to get them nicely squared up.

[dk17hmr]

The first time I hit 1 mile was with a shimmed base. It works but I really dislike it, you HAVE to have a one piece mount otherwise you will bind your scope. I like Picatinny Rail with built in MOA, I have several from 0 to 50 MOA. As already stated you may not get a 100 or 200 yard zero depending on the rifle and your scope. Another plus about Picatinny rails is you can get a good set of quick detach rings and swap your scopes back and forth, it really cuts down on having to buy several high quality scopes.

[Copper75]

+1 on the Burris zee rings!
I have one rifle the even with the offset inserts in the zee rings I still added two layers of 35mm film under the rear base.
In my experience you can add one or two layers of film under the rear base and not crimp the scope. It would be best to lap the rings though. Of course, unless you are using zee rings (the only rings I like to use now) you should lap the rings anyway.
Copper

[Lloyd Smale]

theres the right answer.
First, if the scope has run out of elevation something may be wrong with the match between the receiver and bases/rings. How far are you wanting to shoot? Also, shimming the front base yields less elevation. For more elevation you need to shim the rear base. And, you're right- too much shim (front or rear) can put a bind in the scope. Things I can think of to check: make sure the bases/rings are correct for the model/action/receiver and make sure the scope is not on the fritz. I think Burris makes rings that have elliptical inserts that can adjust for a certain amount of run-out if needed. If you do shim, you can reduce the amount of off-axis "bind" to the scope tube by lapping the rings with a scope lapping rod once the bases/rings are mounted to the receiver.

The only time I've ever had windage problems on a rifle was when the base mounting holes were drilled off-axis to the bore line or receiver center line. The old Leupold/Redfield one piece base system addressed that.

And yes, the suggestion about using a rail is a good one. You can use a stiff rail instead of two piece base- then shim the rear of the rail and still avoid most if not all the off-axis bind.

[EDG]

The only problem with the Signature Burris rings with the offset inserts is that a large percentage of shooters have no clue about how to use them and do not have the math skills to make the calculations.

[imashooter2]

The only problem with the Signature Burris rings with the offset inserts is that a large percentage of shooters have no clue about how to use them and do not have the math skills to make the calculations.

They come with clear directions. If'n you can't do the cypherin' necessary to use the offsets in the Burris rings, you aren't smart enough to be installing a scope on your own.

[HangFireW8]

The same math issue exists with shims. I too like Burris Zee rings but I believe it is the Signature Zee rings that have the inserts. Alone they will solve 2 piece alignment problems but the offset shims are extra $$. This is a complete solution but I dislike adding extra parts to an already fragile system. I'm not saying they are problematic, just that I prefer fewer simpler mount/ring systems on my rifles.

My tactic is to shim one piece mounts as necessary, then once sorted out use the shims as a guide on how much to mill the mount.

HF

[Copper75]

For those of us without a mill, the Burris rings work really well. I've got several sets of them and they are by no means fragile.
One set is on my 300 mag with the offset rings and two pieces of 35mm film under the rear base to get the ups I needed for 1000 yards. (Medium size turret scope)
I swear by them !!
Copper

One more thing I love about them, no more lapping rings !

[wiljen]

Depending on what you want to use it on, there are several companies (EGW comes to mind) that make a 20MOA base that has the correct amount of shim built in for 1000 yard shooting.

[slim1836]

Thanks guys, I learned a lot just from the responses, probably need to give it a rest from here on out, unless of course, there is still vital info to be learned out there.

Thanks for all the help,

Slim

[quilbilly]

If you need to move the elevation up 10" at 100 yards, how much shim do you need on the back ring? This was the first time at the range with a brand new rifle (308) and it already shot a group with 4 of 5 CB's touching at 100. Just 10" low with perfect windage.

[geargnasher]

+1000 on the Burris Signature Zee rings. They are ALL I use anymore, including on bench guns. The offset insert kit for 1" rings is about $15 and has three increments, very handy for long-range setups, subsonic loads, or for barrels that droop or aren't square to the receiver like Marlin barrels can be. I'm not sure if the 30mm rings have offsets available or not.

Gear

[felix]

If your BR gun is not perfectly square everywhere, it ain't a bench gun by definition. The Burris scope system is tops all around, and so are the mounting rails for all kinds of paraphernalia. Maybe one of these days, the BR action makers will make the grooves integral with the product so expensive scopes can be interchanged at will. ... felix

[quilbilly]

I guess I better take a look at what these factory installed mounts look like. I got the rifle as a fun project rifle last week on a whim at Wally World where they had a 20% clearance (couldn't help myself at $240 for a Remington 308 with scope included). It was "right on" with military grade 7.62x51 at my home 40 yard range but wayyy low with cast. I cranked the elevation all the way up with cast and is still 9-10" low at 100 yd but that tight group with 160 gr CB's at 100 made me smile even if low. I did another light load group (less than 30/30 factory velocity) with a jacketed 150's flat point and these were only 6" low but the group was 2". I do have some shim material on hand that is .018" so if I understand this theory, if I put material under the back ring, it will move the boolit up 18" at 100 yards. Do I have this right since this all seem counter intuitive?