New Model Blackhawk action timing?

[Rocket6R]

New Model Blackhawk action timing?

I did a trigger job on my Blackhawk about eight years ago. My trigger has no creep and broke at 2.75 pounds. The trigger job has never failed me.

Fast forward to today. I ordered and installed a Belt Mountain Enterprises base pin. The pin is about .003” wider (fatter) than the original Ruger base pin. Anyway, after installing the new base pin I noticed that it really tightened things up. Everything seems to lock up tighter. However, I’m now experiencing, or perhaps it’s now more pronounced with the new base pin, two distinct audible clicks of the cylinder latch engaging the cylinder and from the hammer engaging the trigger. Now these audible clicks are not unusual and I heard them with the Ruger base pin. But, the hammer seems a little stiffer to cock back to its final stage when it engages the trigger. Meaning, I now have to consciously make sure I really cock the hammer all the way back to its absolute rear position or the hammer will fail to engage the trigger. I didn’t have this problem before with the Ruger base pin.

Also, I tried the trigger pull on the Blackhawk and it still breaks clean. However, the trigger now breaks from 2.75 to 3.25 pounds depending on what chamber it’s fired on.

Could the addition of the new base pin affect the locking between the hammer and the trigger?

Any other thoughts?

Thanks, Paul

[DougGuy]

Sounds like it is not pushing the transfer bar back off the firing pin and it's hitting the firing pin when the hammer is being pulled all the way back. There is a spring loaded plunger in the end of the base pin that does that. I would use the Ruger base pin. It wasn't broke before so why "fix" it now?

[Rocket6R]

Thanks, but that's not the problem. I just checked the transfer bar's movement while cocking the hammer and it clears the firing pin just fine.

[Rocket6R]

I just did another little test. I took the cylinder out of the revolver and put the BME base pin all the way to the rear. I no longer have the stiff trigger cocking problem. Perhaps the BME base pin has tightened everything up so tight that the cylinder latch really has to work at locking up with the cylinder. It's as if the BME has taken up too much of the slop and has created other problems.

Paul

[seagiant]

Hi,
The BME to me is a solution looking for a problem! If it is so tight in the cylinder it will be hard for the hand to push the cylinder around on the way for the sear to cock the hammer? How tight does the base pin fit the cylinder out of the frame?

If you want to get serious about working and or understanding the Ruger single action you need to read Kuhnhausen's book!

[Rocket6R]

The BME base pin fits the cylinder with .0015" to .002" wiggle room. The cylinder does spine freely on the BME base pin. It appears that the BME base pin has tightened up the movement of free-play on the cylinder, which in turn has tightened up the wiggle room from the cylinder latch to the cylinder. Meaning, the window of room the cylinder latch can drop into the cylinder has been reduced. I think!

I have Kuhnhausen's books on the M1 Carbine and 1911. I was not aware that he had one for the Blackhawk. I have to look into getting one.

Thanks, Paul

[John Taylor]

With the tighter pin the cylinder has less slop so the hand is trying to push the cylinder to turn more after the bolt has dropped into the notch. This put a little more load on the sear when it is cocked which increases trigger pull. You could polish a bit off the hand but if the gun was shooting good before the new pin I would go back to the old pin.

[Rocket6R]

Should the cylinder latch to cylinder fit and the hammer to trigger (sear) engagement lock at the exact same time? Or, should the cylinder latch to cylinder fit lock first then the hammer to trigger (sear) engagement lock second?

[Rocket6R]

I did more research and it appears that the cylinder and the hammer should lock at the same time.

I took a closer look and yes the pawl arm is still trying to rotate the cylinder when the cylinder latch has alread locked the cylinder with the BME base pin. So, I put the Ruger base pin back in and it corrected most of the issues. I have noticed that about half of the chambers lock the cylinder and hammer together (one click). However, I still have 3 chambers that lock the cylinder first and then the hammer (two clicks), but it's not by much with the Ruger base pin. It would appear that the pawl arm needs to be adjuster just a little even with the ruger base pin. Perhaps just a couple thousands on the lower pawl arm.

Paul

[Rocket6R]

I’M AN IDIOT!

I totally forgot that I had installed a Power Custom Free-Spin Pawl. However, when I installed the new pawl, which was about eight years ago, I didn’t realize that the pawl lower notch may need to be adjusted. This would explain why I get two clicks while cocking the hammer with the Ruger base pin on half of the chambers and two clicks on all the chambers using the BME base pin.

I decided to disassemble the revolver and take a measurement of the pawl lower notch. After measuring the dimensions of the pawl I reduced the height of the notch my .011”. I actually wanted to take off .005” to .006” first and then try it, but I got a little heavy with the file. Anyway, after filing to about .009” I then stoned it to a nice polish which gave me the end result of a reduction of the notch by .011”.

As I reassembled the revolver I initially thought that I may have taken too much metal off the pawl notch. I first tried cycling the action with the Ruger base pin. Everything locked up nice and no more double clicks. I then installed the BME base pin and cycled the action. I cocked the hammer as slow as I could about 30 times paying close attention to the cylinder latch falling into the cylinder and the hammer engaging the trigger. Everything seemed to fall in place as it should and now I have one nice clean click. Each time I cycled the action I tried to turn the cylinder to make sure the revolver went into battery and it did. Also no more heavy cocking the hammer and the trigger pull is nice and consistent.

Paul

[Rocket6R]

After further review I do notice that the cylinder has a little rotation slop when the action is locked (hammer cocked back). I tried to figure out a way to measure the cylinder rotation slop, but I have not figured out a consistent or accurate way to do it. I compare the cylinder slop on the Blackhawk to my S&W 642 and my Colt New Frontier and the Blackhawk as less slop then both of them.

I have read on the net that revolvers should have at least some cylinder rotational slop. As the bullet leaves the cylinder throat the cylinder can self-align with the forcing cone. If the cylinder locked up solid and there was a small amount of misalignment with the chamber throat and the forcing cone then the forced alignment of the bullet making its transition from the throat to the forcing cone could cause wear on the revolver. I guess it makes sense.

How much is too much cylinder rotation movement?

Thanks, Paul