1st 223 from BTSniper dies

[fredj338]

THis was way easier than I anticipated. I still have to mess with annealing to get the points better, but for my first attmepts, I'm happy. 56.5gr +/- 1/10gr. Thanks Brian for allowing me a new hobby.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/1st223_zps9d10ce57.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/1st223_zps9d10ce57.jpg.html)

[BT Sniper]

Your welcome and your off to a great start! Looks like the bullets with the rim line still visible must have been derimed with the smaller derim punch I no longer supply. I used to supply two different sizes for derim base punches but the larger size ironed out the rim much better.

Folded jacket tips happen, was it a Federal case? A little more anneal may take care of that or adjust the speed at which you form the bullet.

The dimples in the nose are from excess lube. Glad to see you are using plenty of lube to start with, better then not enough. Gradually try to use a little less lube and the dimples will get less noticeable. Try to apply lube to only the lower half of the jacket too when point forming.

Can't quite tell from the pics but the copper color must be from the citric acid bath and not left over scale from annealing, correct?

Your on your way! Good shooting and swage on!

Brian

[fredj338]

B, the copper is from tumbling in ss media w/ a handfull of BBs. I like the look. I suspect I need a bit more annealing to get the noses right. Thanks, I'll try less lube & see if the dimples go away. My first ones, really worried about sticking one. Yes, my first jackets I did w/ the smaller punch, then I abandoned it for the larger one.
I won't get to shoot them for a couple weeks, but will run them thru my 20" hvy AR & a buddy's 27" Savage target rig. Thx again for providing such a high end product, makes it pretty simple.

[R.Ph. 380]

Fun, isn't it? Took a couple of hundred over to the SIL's tonight to show him. Impressed him that the old dog still had some tricks up the sleeve.

Bill

[DukeInFlorida]

Congrats.

I went to the range yesterday with a friend who was having issues with his new AR15 locking up. Turns out it was a lube issue. We lubed the gun with SuperLube grease, and headed over to the range. He only brought a few rounds, and was having fun shooting, so I have him a few stripper clips of ammo. He immediately noticed that they were loaded with my swaged bullets.

They shot the same groups as the factory loads he started with. Open sights. He was happy to have the extra ammo and shooting time. I was happy that he was happy with the swaged bullet ammo.

I hope that you enjoy the swaged bullets as much as I do! Welcome to the clan!

[fredj338]

Thanks DUke, I am anxious to get some shooting in with my new little gems. Learning something new, that you can actually use, is very rewarding. The only question was why did I wait so long? I am sure BTs dies make a diff as well. Everything runs as adv, no issues so far.

[ACrowe25]

Nice looking creations! Really makes me want to read up on the process. Good work, yours and BT.

[Cane_man]

welcome to the club freddy, feels good dont it?! carry on with the good work :2 drunk buddies:

[fredj338]

welcome to the club freddy, feels good dont it?! carry on with the good work :2 drunk buddies:

Thanks! For anyone that enjoys working with their hands & making something out of nothing, swaging is very rewarding. Now if they will shoot, so much the better!

[fredj338]

Ok, first groups up. This was from my 1-8, 20" hvy AR, @ 2975fps. A bit windy, 10-15, but this is not bad for no load developement, just plug & play from another plinking load. I am sure I can get better accuracy w/ some tinkering, but for first bullets down range, I am pleased. I did lose a couple in some other groups. A careful inspection of the jacketes & noses will prevent the wild flyer or bullet that never reaches the target. Thanks again Brian for making such a good product.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/22lr-223firstgroup_zps54ed688c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/22lr-223firstgroup_zps54ed688c.jpg.html)

[303british.com]

Nice group!

I thought I would mention a couple of other ways to stop the jacket from folding over itself. The easiest way is a heavier core. The extra lead supports the case when you're pointing it up. The lead fills more of the jacket and presses against the inner wall of the case.

Or, if you want to make 55 gr. bullets, a trim die will remove most or all of the unsupported part of the jacket (the OT), reducing the likelihood that the brass will crack or break.

This second thing means added expense and another step, but some people do it. The trim die will also clean up the tips too.

Just so you know, the dimples do not affect accuracy. I don't think too many guys use the exact same amount of lube, bullet to bullet, so the dimples show up. :) I think they look cool with dimples! 8-)

[fredj338]

Thx Steve, these finished @ 56.7gr, a bit heavy. I think 57-57.5gr will completely fill the nose. I have some slightly heavier cores to try next. I also think some add'l annealing will yield better points. The whole annealing thing is pretty touchy/feely.

[303british.com]

I think you're on the right track by making the core heavier. You might find that you do not have to anneal the case at all. With the lead pushing on and supporting the inside wall of the case all the way to the tip (when you point it up), the amount of jacket cracking/breakage drops dramatically.

When you find the weight that brings the core almost flush with the nose of the bullet, but not sticking out, this should work. A quick tip: Let the lead come just past the nose and press the point against a flat metal surface. You can also get a tip forming die and let a small amount of lead stick out the front. The tip former can clean it up and give it a point. It's an added expense though.

[BT Sniper]

With enough lead on the tip of the bullet these dies will make a nice Lead tip without an extra die. Just need enough lead at the tip to support it's self without deforming. Using the 22lr jacket I found this weight needed to be 65 grains total or heavier. This one pictured is 69 grains.

I think even at 100% filled jacket yet no anneal the likelihood of folded tips is still great in these 6s dies.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060884.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/P1060884.jpg.html)

[303british.com]

I've found that SK, Lapua, Win and Rem cases are easiest to work with. The Federals tend to crack more when they're worked, unless you anneal, but I've found that certain cases don't need annealing at all.

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/S_Redgwell/Bullet%20Making/WIABDB5_zps190ce124.jpg

Here is a picture of a 60 and 65 grain bullet, side by each. If you examine the pic, you can see three things: first, the lighter, 60 gr. bullet (left) is shorter. Also, check the section of ogive at the end of the jacket where it meets the lead, it's slighter narrower than the 65 grainer. The third thing is the dimpling. It is more pronounced on the 60 gr. bullet because the jacket was squeezed down more.

To reduce the need to anneal, you need to do two things: the lead has to support the inside of the jacket wall, right to the end. Second, how much lead comes out the tip will determine how narrow the last 0.100 of the jacket will be. That's because the farther you push the jacket into the die, the narrower the jacket will become. The narrower the jacket, the more the chance it will break.

You have to find the happy medium with the core. Let the lead form the tip. The jacket area will be wider and less prone to cracking. So your best bet is to use a tip former to completely clean up the exuded lead.

[fredj338]

Right now I am at the if it's not broke don't fix it point. I like the non exposed lead tip, these are almost 100% for the AR, so feeding should be better. I think I can get to 57-57.5gr & have a completely filled nose. We'll see. Thanks for the thoughts. I don't mind annealing, just getting it right is the issue.

[303british.com]

I sympathize. :(

When I first started making bullets, I wanted to make 50 grainers for my 222s. The trouble was, the OTs had a lot of space from the tip to where the core was. A lot of them split. I thought, "The economy isn't there if half of the are going to break!" So I played around and found that I could make the core larger. I annealed using the wife's cookie sheets. She didn't catch me. :) I found annealing was more of a pain, so I got a jacket trimming die and also made up some heavier bullets.

Good luck with your experiments!

[BT Sniper]

Didn't mention... Nice shooting Fred! and your welcome! Always like to see happy customers and good groups.

Swage On!

Brian

[Theditchman]

I was really lucky..I found a muffle oven on ebay for 100 bucks and it came with a spare element..I converted it to digital and made a small basket from the wifes chip basket..nowI can anneal 1000 cases at 1200f at a time for 10 minites and they come out supersoft...if anyone needs something annealed let me know it goes up to 1900f

[supe47]

Muffle oven sent me straight to wikipedia. Nice score!

[fredj338]

Annealing in a Lee casting pot works great, you just have to watch them, stir them a bit, it's kind of vodoo, but not diff.

[newcastter]

Annealing in a Lee casting pot works great, you just have to watch them, stir them a bit, it's kind of vodoo, but not diff.
I really want to try this but don't want to ruin a whole lot of brass, I would def make a video once I had it figured out, do you have any detailed info like Must do and Must dont's?

[fredj338]

Not really. Clean brass goes into a clean Lee pot. Cover with alum foil, turn it up to 6, let them go for 15min, stir every 3-4m. It seems to work fine, jackets com out soft enough to squeeze between fingers w/ a little force.