Paper Cartridges for rifles?

[aspangler]

Anyone tried making paper cartridges for rifles? I know they used a lot of them during the Civil War. I am interested in trying to make some for fun and maybe for hunting with my 50s this fall. Any help would be appreciated.

[RPRNY]

I don't know anything about this yet. But I just bought an 1858 Remington .44 and have been researching paper cartridges for it. In the stickies section of the BP shooting section at THR there is a long thread with pictures and several techniques explained. On YouTube (paper cartridges for 1858 Remington) there is an excellent how to video that would work well for to for rifles. And Dixie sells an oddly titled book , something to the effect of "On the manufacture of self-consuming cartridges", the proceeds of which go to a BP shooting foundation. These sources should give you some good ideas. Good luck.

[rodwha]

I just began making some cartridges for my Old Army, which worked well, but left shards of paper in the chambers. I saw none that were smoldering, but that is the danger of using them. Were you to load a new one on top of an ember you'd be asking for problems with a quick answer!

I have been contemplating cartridges for my .50 cal percussion Deerstalker, and I think the answer would be to nitrate the papers so that they burn thoroughly. I'd still give it a moment to extinguish any possible embers though, but there shouldn't be anything left.

What I have been considering is just a paper powder tube without a projectile. I've begun working on them for my pistol with good results, though I like to cut my rolling papers in half, which means I have to reduce my powder charge a little. It works better with a bullet on the end as it takes less paper to seal it.

[gnoahhh]

What worked 150 years ago works today. The only scenario I see that paper cartridges wouldn't work would be for a patched round ball shooter. When rolling a cartridge containing a greased conical (such as a Miniè) you have to devise a way to segregate the bullet from the powder. Civil War rifled musket shooters tore the cartridge open with their teeth, dumped the powder down the bore, shucked the bullet out of the other end and inserted it naked into the bore, the empty cartridge paper was then dropped on the ground. Typically the whole cartridge didn't go into the barrel as with earlier smoothbore muskets in which the whole cartridge containing the un-lubed round ball went down the barrel after first tearing the end open to expose the powder.

Having fired thousands of live rounds, and 10's of thousands of blanks (30 years re-ennacting Rev and Civil War) I never experienced a round to 'cook off' while reloading, from a burning ember, nor did I ever hear of it happening to someone else. That's not to say it couldn't happen though. I did witness such a cook-off by guy loading his 1860 Colt with paper cartridges, but it turned out he was using un-nitrated paper for his cartridges. (No damage to him or the gun.)

A little off the track, but early smoothbore muskets were quicker to reload than later rifled muskets with their Miniè balls, re: the above description of the process. Add to that the time spent fumbling for a percussion cap versus priming the pan of a flintlock with a smidgeon of powder from out of the cartridge before putting the bulk of it down the bore. (That little operation always gave me the heebie-jeebies- loading the cartridge down the barrel with the pan already primed- but, that's how it was done back then. I could get off 4-5 shots/minute with my Brown Bess versus maybe 3 with an 1861 Springfield.)

[rodwha]

I am considering a combustable paper cartridge, though it would likely only hold powder unless I used a dry wad or card to separate the powder from the oiled patch.

I have speed loader tubes though, and it's unlikely I'd do more than try it out. 2 spare reloads for hunting seems about all I'd need to carry so it would mostly be for the range, and I don't mind measuring my charge so much. It's mainly been for the benefit of those who aren't patient, but are curious about these BP arms.

[fouronesix]

I've never seen a cook off or ember ignition either but some have reported it during regular, non-paper-cartridge ML shooting. The only thing to watch out for, depending on where you shoot, is the real fire danger posed by the paper- especially with the non-combustable/non-nitrated paper. Sounds strange, but a wad of regular paper blown out a muzzle is a potential fire starter.

[aspangler]

Thanks! A lot of good info here. Any where I can get an idea as to how to make them?

[fouronesix]

Some ML books have instructions and I've seen several online- just do a google search for rolling or making paper cartridges. Here's one of many you can find.
http://www.wikihow.com/Roll-Paper-Cartridges-(Reenacting)

[rodwha]

What kind of rifle are you intending to shoot these from? And does the paper need to be combustable or not?

I've seen a couple of YouTube videos of fellows making the traditional paper cartridges for rifles. They used a template to cut non rolling paper.

[varsity07840]

It won't matter if the paper is combustible or not if its not going in the bore or cylinder. The powder MUST be exposed to the flash from the cap or pan, or else there will be no ignition. The percussion Sharps didn't need to have the cartridge torn open because closing the block would cut the tail off the cartridge.

That's not exactly the case with the Sharps cartridge. The original paper cartridge did have the tail cut of by the breechblock but excess powder filtering into the action and under the forestock was a safety issue. A linen catridge with a paper end that fit the length of the chamber without a tail was standard Union issue while the Confederates still used the paper tailed varient which was less accurtate. Some Union units were issued the Johnson and Dow combustible paper musket cartridges that were loaded as a single unit rather than biting of the end of the paper to pour the powder and unwarpping the minie prior to loading. In both cases(Sharps and musket) the flash from the cap burned through to ignite the powder. A lot of percussion Sharps shooters today use a cartridge that is a rolled cardboard tube with a paper end and a ringtail bullet.

Duane

[gnoahhh]

Another innovation employed briefly early on by the Confederates was the Gardner bullet/cartridge. Essentially it was a standard looking Miniè ball with a paper tube attached to it by crimping the end of the tube into a ring in the bottom of the bullet's skirt, then filled with powder and the end folded over. The idea was to preclude the need to shuck the bullet out of the cartridge before ramming it home, by simply tearing the end open and sticking the whole works in/down the barrel. A darned good idea that worked- up to a point. They found that Gardner cartridges picked up a lot of flotsam and jetsam that stuck to the exposed greased bullets, and complaints flooded in from the field so they dropped it. By late 1862 they were a thing of the past.

I have in my collection a few Gardner bullets I found by metal detecting at the foot of South Mountain below Crampton's Gap, Maryland. So, at least one Confederate unit was still shooting Gardner bullets in their .58's at the Battle of South Mountain, September, 1862.

If I only learned one thing as a student of this stuff for almost a half century, it would be that nothing we come up with today wasn't tried in some way 100-200 years ago. It's amazing how we keep trying to re-invent the wheel!

[fgd135]

Paper cartridges for minie rifles were of two different types, as the US side primarily issued a paper cartridge that was torn open ,the powder poured into the bore, the ball removed from the paper and then inserted and rammed home.
Southern forces also used the British Enfield paper cartridge, where the end of the cartridge was bitten off, powder poured into the bore, but the opposite end of the paper cartridge containing the ball was inserted into the muzzle, base first, and then torn away from the above the inserted Pritchett ball, which essentially was a paper patched bullet.
I've used both, and in my experience, the Enfield cartridge is quicker and easier to load into the firearm. A minie bullet used in this type of cartridge has to be somewhat more undersized, around .564--.568" for a .577" bore, to compensate for the paper "patch".
If you google "Pritchett cartridge" there will be plenty of info, just as for "paper cartridge".

[mikeym1a]

Maybe not authentic, but, when I was shooting with a N-SSA team, we used plastic 'cartridges'. They help a measured amount of powder, the sized minie ball was placed in the end, and then dipped in lube. On the firing line, we pulled the boolit out with our teeth, dumped the powder in the muzzle, dropped the 'cartridge', put the boolit in the muzzle, and then rammed it home. Worked really well. Perhaps not authentic, but functional. [smilie=1:

[aspangler]

Maybe not authentic, but, when I was shooting with a N-SSA team, we used plastic 'cartridges'. They help a measured amount of powder, the sized minie ball was placed in the end, and then dipped in lube. On the firing line, we pulled the boolit out with our teeth, dumped the powder in the muzzle, dropped the 'cartridge', put the boolit in the muzzle, and then rammed it home. Worked really well. Perhaps not authentic, but functional. [smilie=1:

I thought about doing something like that. I was just curious abut the feasibility of paper cartridges for carrying while hunting.

[rodwha]

I bought a 3 pack of plastic speed loaders for hunting, but decided to make some paper powder bags to try at the range for grins.

I'm a little hesitant as I'm certain to have paper left behind since I did when I used them in my pistol. I'm not sure how hard it will be to get it all back out, especially while at the range. These will be the last of my shooting in case it needs cleaning.

I wrapped 70 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford and Pyrodex P. I'll add the patched ball separately.

It would be better to nitrate the papers first...

[RPRNY]

Instead of nitrating paper, messy, time consuming and an additional fire hazard, cigarette paper is very combustible and easy to use in cartridge making. In a rifle charge, I would just make sure it is well under bore size so that it travels down the bore with minimal resistance. You will tamp down ball / conical and charge anyway, so it will fill out when "seated" by the ramrod. In cap and ball pistols it doesn't matter as much as the lack of rifling in the cylinder makes for less resistance.

Bugler brand papers seem to be the best combo of durability and comparability.

[Fly]

I make up viles with premeasured powder.I load my PRB after I pour my powder.Just about as fast.

Fly

[varsity07840]

I thought about doing something like that. I was just curious abut the feasibility of paper cartridges for carrying while hunting.

They work fine for hunting. I use them for my .58 and .69 rifled muskets. They're the standard type cartridge in which the minie is seperated from the powder charge. That's important because putting the minie directly over the powder in a single continuous tube can allow the powder to contaminated by the lube. The powder can also creep in between the inside wall of the tube and the minie and stick to the lube in the grooves.

Duane

[AviatorTroy]

Cig paper and watered down white glue worked great with revolvers. Get a dowel the size of the chamber, and wrap the paper around with about 1/2 inch sticking past the end of the dowel. The ball goes there, and twist the paper up over it and a small dab of the watered down glue to hold it. Slide it off the dowel and when it's dry, dump your powder in and fold the other end over or twist it, whatever works.

This may not be 100% authentic but I've seen old pictures of conicals loaded for revolvers in a similar way.

I just jammed the whole thing in and rammed with the lever. I still used a swipe of Crisco over the end of the chambers for lube and chain fire prevention..

All in all pretty quick to load and clean and easy to shoot.

[7of7]

Cig paper and watered down white glue worked great with revolvers. Get a dowel the size of the chamber, and wrap the paper around with about 1/2 inch sticking past the end of the dowel. The ball goes there, and twist the paper up over it and a small dab of the watered down glue to hold it. Slide it off the dowel and when it's dry, dump your powder in and fold the other end over or twist it, whatever works.

This may not be 100% authentic but I've seen old pictures of conicals loaded for revolvers in a similar way.

I just jammed the whole thing in and rammed with the lever. I still used a swipe of Crisco over the end of the chambers for lube and chain fire prevention..

All in all pretty quick to load and clean and easy to shoot.

Now that sounds interesting, but, what about using beeswax instead of glue.... Just a thought,... may have to give it a try with my C&B..

[gnoahhh]

The easiest glue I have found for this application is those little glue sticks elementary school kids use. No muss, no fuss, and it's self contained in a tube not unlike a lipstick tube.