When Lee Liquid Allox fails, what about pan lubing ?

[milprileb]

What ever happened to those Lee kits for pan lubing of bullets , they had a sizer / cutter
and were slow but adequate ?

I only ask because if LL Alox does not work on Makorov 9mm pistol bullets, I will be looking
for a pan lube kit to buy.

Your thoughs please.

[KrisR]

Subscribing because I would like too know as well

[375RUGER]

Not what you're asking for but you can get a good flat bottom pan at the thrift store as big or little as you want so you can do 30-100 boolits at a time. Make a cutter out of a fired .38 or .357 or .358 Win case. Drill out the primer pocket and use a small dowel to push the boolit back out.

[Maximumbob54]

Or you could use better tumble lube:

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=31

[Ben]

This may be of interest to you :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?119056-So-you-can-t-afford-one

[Carolina Cast Bullets]

milprileb:

Can you define "lube failure" with LLA? Chances are, you simply applied too much. An event that happens way to easily. I tumble lube everything I make/sell and have had no complaints. However, I use 45/45/10 as defined and illustrated by Recluse in one of his threads. Simply search his name for the thread. LLA remains sticky and does not dry even after some time. 45/45/10 dries quickly and leaves a very thin but effective film of lube on each bullet. A "rule of thumb" is, if you can see the lube, you have used too much. Since I cast bullets on a commercial scale, I deliberately over use it simply to allow my customers to actually see lube. Even then I have to walk a fine line to make sure I dont overdo it.
Tumble lube works and works well for ALL bullets even those with "loob grooves", you simply have to be sure not to overapply it.

Jerry
Carolina Cast Bullets

[Char-Gar]

I always take the counsel of somebody with something to sell, as the counsel of somebody with something to sell.

[MtGun44]

Use a conventional design and pan lube with NRA 50-50 for widest possible operating
conditions that will work successfully. No question tumble lube can work, but we get a lot
of reports of failures that are cured with the above solution.

Bill

[Char-Gar]

Use a conventional design and pan lube with NRA 50-50 for widest possible operating
conditions that will work successfully. No question tumble lube can work, but we get a lot
of reports of failures that are cured with the above solution.

Bill

Yep.....

[williamwaco]

I don't have anything to sell but I am 'selling' LLA.

It will not fail you in your application unless your bullets are too hard or too small.

See:


http://reloadingtips.com/pages/lla_bullet_lube.htm

http://reloadingtips.com/pages/lla_bullet_lube_2.htm

http://reloadingtips.com/pages/exp_111201a_lla_test.htm


Xlox is 100% as good as LLA. See:

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=19&zenid=fce6dda4a3950b0ab0aec53fc8877c2b

[390ish]

I have been surprised how well it works in rifle applications, and not just powder puff red dot loads. I have a pretty stout 8mm load from the older lyman cast bullet manual that uses quite a bit of WW 760 and throws the pill well over 2.1kfps and no leading. Same holds true for some full throttle 180 grain 7.62x54r loads. I followed advice on this board and do think it works a bit better thinned. I still need to get a little Johnson's paste wax.

[44man]

I hate LLA and have had it fail too many times to fool with so I give it away. It comes with size dies and I wish they would remove it and reduce the die cost.
I shoot revolvers with heavy hunting loads and boolits all year, never mouse loads. Now some love the stuff and I won't argue about it but not me!
I did find a use once. Had a cop pester me to load for him. I worked a good load with Felix and he kept dropping off hundreds of cases for me to load. I don't have that kind of time and profit was not matching the work. I TL his last batch and he never came back!
Some will say too much, others say add more, just where does it work? Too little and it is gone in an inch of barrel but how will two coats reach the end of the bore?
Everyone that uses Alox to their satisfaction alters the junk.

[snuffy]

What ever happened to those Lee kits for pan lubing of bullets , they had a sizer / cutter
and were slow but adequate ?

I only ask because if LL Alox does not work on Makorov 9mm pistol bullets, I will be looking
for a pan lube kit to buy.

Your thoughts please.

Mil, those lee kits are no longer made. Why? Because they came out with LLA and tumble lube style boolits, their answer to the laborious job of pan lubing.

As said, an altered case takes the place of that "cake cutter" that lee made, IF you really want to pan lube.

The Recluse 45-45-10 lube is a much better answer to tumble lubing. The addition of the Johnson's paste wax is the key. It'll leave your bore with a coating of shinola, looking like a mirror.(IF the boolit fits the bore!)

[rintinglen]

I'm with Waco Will on this one.
I have run 311-291 boolits at 2300 fps out of a 30-40 Winchester with minimal leading over a 40 round lever action silhouette match.
These days I use mostly Recluse formula, but I shot many thousands of rounds using nothing but LLA. If your boolits fit, it will work OK for most purposes. For maximum accuracy, or (like my 38's) when I have no idea which gun a particular boolit is going to be fired from, NRA/Javelina 50/50 works better, but for someone not willing or able to invest in a lubrisizer I like tumble lube better than pan lubing.

[fcvan]

Back when I was pan lubing (briefly) I had a small round tin lid. I started out lubing with Javalina in that tin. When the lube cooled I popped the cake out and pushed the boolits through. The cake went back in and boolits were arraigned in the holes. Reheat, repeat. I eventually got to where I heated the lube and then dipped the boolits while the lube was hot. The boolits went onto wax paper and cooled. The excess lube at the base stayed on the wax paper.

I had bought the old style push through sizer at .356 and guess what? They leaded up my S&W 459. There was enough lube on the 9mm boolits I was casting at the time and I shot them as-cast. Poof, no more leading. I had read somewhere that if a boolit was slightly out of round the process of seating and crimping would generally make them round. If not, the throats would in very short order.

I have gotten quite a few folks into casting by starting out on the cheap (small pot, ladle casting) and then pan lubing. Most folks ended up getting bottom pour furnaces and lube-sizers after they got into it.

Pan lubing is more laborious than tumble lube but doesn't get lube all over the boolit. Some folks like a tumble lubed boolit as it seals the entire boolit from oxidizing. I would rather pan lube than tumble. Of late, I'm powder coating more than I'm lube-sizing because it is the fad/phase I'm going through and I think it's cool :)

[MtGun44]

I don't like the sticky lube all over my boolits, that is my main crank about LLA.

Bill

[Gohon]

Can you define "lube failure" with LLA?

I'd like to hear some comments on that myself. I've been reloading my own for about 30 years now but just got into casting my own 6-7 years ago. LLA is all I've ever used and 95% of my loads are my own casts. Knowing that bullet fit was most important that is what I've always paid attention to first. I've driven some of my loads to 2500 fps and never had a leaded barrel of any kind. My mix is 50/50 LLA and JPW. I've never seen the need to add mineral spirits as JPW already has that in their mix and I see no need since I get the thickness I want.

Stickiness.........yes it is if using the tumble method but throwing the bullets into a plastic bag along with a teaspoon of cornstarch, shaking it up, dumping them into a strainer and blowing them off with a air hose removes all stickiness. Gawd awful looking bullets but I've yet to hear complaints from any game shot. However, these last couple years I've been using the Ranch Dog method of dipping the bullets, standing them on their base to dry then using a cookie cutter to clean the sides. Dipped twice the lube grooves are full of LLA, both conventional and tumble lube type, as if run through a lube machine. Without doubt my method is time consuming but I can lube up several hundred or a thousand bullets while watching a favorite movie so it is a relaxing period for me and I simply enjoy it.

So where is this failure of LLA? Is there a point that I should be aware of to head off any problems? If someone is going to make a statement that LLA will fail they should at least explain that so all of us can be educated.

[HiVelocity]

45/45/10 is the only way to go. Very little mess, works on both TL and non-TL bullets.

Just my .02 worth.

HV

[hickfu]

I pan lube all of my 45-70 and 44 mag boolits, I find it very easy and I run 3 pans with around 90 in each pan. I use a case as a lube cutter with a big hole drilled in the back end and a non threaded bolt fits down in it so its easy to push out the lubed boolits (oh and I drill out a big nut for the case to go in and glue it so I have something to hold on to. for the 44 mag's I use a 444 case the same way as my 45-70's
77893

even made a video on pan lubing and how easy it can be, I just dont like the smell of alox.....


Doc