Bullseye formulation changed in recent years?

[WallyM3]

I've been loading/reloading since 1973 when I pulled together a kit consisting mostly of RCBS equipment, including a Uniflow powder measure which I used until yesterday. Though it isn't a great idea, I have, on occasion, left powder in the hopper overnight (well, maybe longer), including good ole Bullseye, many, many times.

Just recently I have had need to load a few thousand .38 Special cartridges...Speer 148gr. HBWC boolit, 2.7gr. Bullseye powder; you know the one.... After a few days, the newly acquired Bullseye flakes had welded themselves to the inside of the plastic hopper to such a depth that the powder baffle was difficult to remove with a long screwdriver. The plastic tube was CasRep'd, though the metal parts are OK. Still, some of the powder stuck to the metal as well as if the granules of powder were coated with some kind of tackifier.

In 40 years of powder handling, I've never encountered the like before.:shock:

Anybody know wazzup wit dat?:veryconfu

Puzzled in Vermont.

[Char-Gar]

I doubt the problem was a change in powder formulation. Look elsewhere for the problem.

[WallyM3]

I doubt the problem was a change in powder formulation. Look elsewhere for the problem.

That is certainly intuitively sensible, but I can't think of any other variable that changed. It's been humid here, but nowhere near as humid as Charleston, SC, where my reloading began. As a control, I tried a newer Uniflow...same thing!

[wvmanchu]

Never had that happen with Bullseye but just a few weeks ago I loaded some 45 ACP with some Titegroup just to try something different, It did the same thing you describe in my older Lyman 55 powder measure. It was only in there overnight as I started loading on Saturday morning and finished up Sunday morning. Both days temperatures were in the mid to high 90's and humidity was near 100%.

[WallyM3]

Never had that happen with Bullseye but just a few weeks ago I loaded some 45 ACP with some Titegroup just to try something different, It did the same thing you describe in my older Lyman 55 powder measure. It was only in there overnight as I started loading on Saturday morning and finished up Sunday morning. Both days temperatures were in the mid to high 90's and humidity was near 100%.

The humidity outside was high, but I had A/C units running and temps were around 68 to 70 inside. Don't know about inside humidity, but it must have been marginally lower. I can't imagine not encountering similar conditions (or more so) in the past.

Maybe I just bent the rules too much this time. Both Uniflow units had some age on them, and that may have some effect on the mutual reactivity. Go figure.

[FrankG]

I had same happen with Titegroup ! Called RCBS for new hopper and explained why and they sent one no charge :)

[WallyM3]

I had same happen with Titegroup ! Called RCBS for new hopper and explained why and they sent one no charge :)

Hmmmmmm....., no charge, you say? (LOL)

[wvmanchu]

I had same happen with Titegroup ! Called RCBS for new hopper and explained why and they sent one no charge :)

I doubt that Lyman would do that. I bought the Lyman second hand off of a member here. It's in great shape and I was able to clean all the stuck powder out with a nylon brush but the plastic feels pitted a bit. I've seen new hoppers available but mine screws in the new ones don't have threads. I reload in the shop in the garage so the temp and humidity was the same as out side. Plan on trying the Titegroup in some .38 Specials tonite as it's much cooler today. Hopefully it does not do the same thing in my Hornady LNL on my progressive press.

[HangFireW8]

I've had that happen. The variable that changed is your powder hopper is older and more vulnerable to chemical interaction.

[WallyM3]

I've had that happen. The variable that changed is your powder hopper is older and more vulnerable to chemical interaction.

(sigh) And so am I.

[Larry Gibson]

The formulation for Bullseye has not changed. The problem lies elswhere.

Larry Gibson

[WallyM3]

The formulation for Bullseye has not changed. The problem lies elswhere.

Larry Gibson

I'm thinking so. Time for fresh powder measures.

[Outpost75]

The nitroglycerine in double-based powders is a plasticizer. In hot weather this could happen with any double-based powder.

[EMC45]

It happened to my Uniflow as well. It has NEVER been exposed to temperature extremes. Bullseye was the culprit as well. Never has happened with the Lee PPM. I would rather leave powder in the hopper and go with it from there, specially if I am loading volume for a range trip.

[WallyM3]

"Never has happened with the Lee PPM."

I've been eye-balling one of them for a while now. Think I'll pull the trigger.

[Char-Gar]

A couple of follow up thoughts;

1. I have used Bulleye for over 50 years up to and including some very fresh stuff and it has not changed.
2. It was standard dicta 50 years ago to, "never leave powder in a measure overnight". Therefore I never have.
3. RCBS will furnish parts and service for any equipment of any age, whether on not you are the original purchaser. That is plenty of reason to buy RCBS products. Buy once and you never have to buy again with RCBS.

[WallyM3]

Good thoughts, all.

Funny thing is that I've violated #2 on many occasion and this is the first time I got bitten. I've adopted the dicta.

[375RUGER]

Before I ever started loading I remember reading, IIRC Skeeter Skelton, rehashing a bad experience leaving powder in the measure.

[WallyM3]

I remember being told that early on, but never had a problem personally...'til now.

.375 Ruger was one of my recent builds, on a Savage 110. Good, hard hitting cartridge.

[W.R.Buchanan]

With Humidity at 100% I don't think you need to look much further.

You said A/C units running? Are they A/C or Swamp Coolers? If they are Swamp Coolers then that's your answer. If your A/C unit does not dehumidify then that is the problem.

Bullseye has changed only slightly in the last 40 years and the new stuff burns a "little" cleaner. The problem is, it is still 40% nitroglycerin, and nitro is hygroscopic. IE it attracts moisture.

Randy

[dudel]

Bullseye has (always had) a high nitro content. It wll discolor plastic if left exposed. Well documented in Propellan Profiles (excellent read BTW). It's not recommened to leave Bullseye in a plastic powder measure even overnight.

[WallyM3]

IIRC, Bullseye may have been the first powder with which I reloaded in 1973 (for a K-38) and, for the life of me, I can't remember a similar experience despite casual powder habits. Then again, I don't remember what I had for breakfast.

"Profiles" on order. Thanks for the lead, dudel.

[Nickle]

Wally, I'd be willing to bet the humidity this year is part of it. I don't remember going through a year as bad as this here. And, yeah, I'm about 75 miles due north of you, in Bristol. I figure the humidity exacerbates the problem. Leaving powder in the measure is bad on several levels. Top ones are the measure isn't airtight (powder is affected by air exposure, IMNSHO) and the fact that you're more liable to forget exactly what it is.

WR, folks up here generally don't even know what a swamp cooler is. I do, but I've lived where they actually work (they don't up here). He's almost certainly got refrigeration type AC units. I can tell you I do, and that's normal.

[Nickle]

"Profiles" on order. Thanks for the lead, dudel.

I've got a couple of them, if you need info in the mean time. Different editions, not sure which ones, but covers most powders.

[enoch59]

I've had the same problem with my Hornady AP press using the powder measure that comes with it. I just bought my third powder reservoir in five years. They use plastic when they know that the gunpowder will react with it and begin a slow meltdown. Well I decided NO MORE ! I have searched high and low for a glass replacement with zero luck. I was about to have one made for me when I had an inkling to ask my wife if she had any ideas. She thought for a moment and went into her sewing room and came back with a blue colored sheet of some type of plastic material. It would wind up into a tight circle and I was able to place it inside of my powder dispenser. It even looks kinda cool. Anyway, before filling my dispenser I decided to make a smaller mock type one with glass and then the sheet good and filled it with Bullseye and then I capped it and set it away in a safe place for a few days. Well, after three days there was no reaction what so ever. So, I know have an answer to replacing these powder dispensers every other year. I can leave powder in my hopper if I choose to and the only thing that it will cost me is another sheet of this stuff for about $3.00 at any sewing center. It's called template plastic material. It comes in all sorts of colors and I think you can get twice coverage in an RCBS uniflow cause they are much shorter than my Hornady. Of course, Hornady would not honor their lifetime replacement warranty but that's nothing new to me. Grrrrrrr ! How I wish I had bought a Dillon. Oh the mistakes I have made in my life.

[WallyM3]

I live on the Batten Kill, and we've had so much rain that it's still unfishable. Haven't been able to mow the meadow because much of the ground is mush; usually it's dusty this time of year. The A/C units are shedding copious amounts of water, much more than usual.

It seems slightly unconscionable that the manufacturers of powder measures use a material that isn't up to the job in any climate...like the jugs the powder comes in. I think it's time to get creative. I like the liner idea and I'll check it out. Perhaps some of the plastic shim stock material in my shop might work, too. Maybe I can find glass tubing close enough to machine an adaptor that would work, then let the nitro see what it can do to that. (hrumph)

I keep a blank sheet of 1" by 2" address labels handy at the bench. When I load a powder, I label the measure with one of them so that I am reminded what's in there, then peel it off when I'm done. Makes for a messy tube, but I don't trust to memory.

Anyway, it's great fun no matter.

[LynC2]

If one is going to replace the plastic hopper, another option is using one of these adapters that Sinclair sells to allow one to screw on the 1 lb Hodgedon and Accurate powder bottles. http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/powder-handling/measure-stands-accessories/sinclair-powder-bottles-and-adapters-prod32959.aspx

[Char-Gar]

There are several good reasons for not leaving power in a measure and the interaction between powder and hopper is not one of them.

[LynC2]

There are several good reasons for not leaving power in a measure and the interaction between powder and hopper is not one of them.

I agree and I always empty it after a reloading session. The same reason I only have 1 powder on my bench at one time. I've heard of too many mistakes to not make it a habit. As a matter of fact I preach the same to every new handloader I get started.

[Char-Gar]

I agree and I always empty it after a reloading session. The same reason I only have 1 powder on my bench at one time. I've heard of too many mistakes to not make it a habit. As a matter of fact I preach the same to every new handloader I get started.

That is very true. The OPs labels would seem to be a good idea, but not foolproof. Perhaps my biggest issue with leaving powder in a measure is the measure is not air tight and a powder can/jug is. The solvents used in powder production when evaporated into the air can be volatile and I don't think the powder gets any better for their lose.

It is because of these issues, that I don't feel that powder interaction with a plastic hopper is a serious issue. Leaving powder in a hopper presents much weightier issues of safety, fire hazard and powder chemistry. I do know that folks have done this and feel these concerns can be dismissed, but when bad things happen it is too late to back up and rethink the issue. We need to do out thinking first.

Both J. Bushnell Smith and George Nonte died in reloading room fires, although neither was related to leaving powder in a measure. None-the-less, even the pros can take the ultimate hit.

Reloading for many reasons is inherently a dangerous activity. Each years people are killed and injured by blow up firearms and reloading room fires and accidents. Anything we can do to mitigate the risk, should be done. Having only one powder can on the bench and returning the powder to that same can after each reloading session is not much of a burden for the safety benefits it yields.

If you are into sky diving don't take shortcuts in packing your chute. If you are into reloading, don't take short cuts in loading your ammo.

[EMC45]

I like the Uniflow....for stick powders for rifle. I like the PPM for flake and ball powders for pistol. I too label my hopper. I use a piece of masking tape and bend a little "dog ear" on the end so I can pull it off when I switch loads or powder types. Leaves no residue either.

[WallyM3]

Though the point is now moot in my loading room because of these sudden hopper issues, I agree that reloading hygiene should involve removing powder from the measure at the end of a session, my mission is to load 2,000 cartridges, and I steal time to load a box every so often. "Char-Gar's" safety reminders now has me rethinking how I store primers. I'll be moving them further away from the powder than they currently are.

Here's one for you: I liberally dosed the inside of the hopper of my remaining functional Uniflow with powdered graphite, loaded it with B'eye which stuck to the inside plastic within one hour! I had to rattle the baffle loose with a long screw driver.

There seems to be some controversy over the manner of Nonte's death. Some source site a heart attack in his office, others referring to the loading room accident. Either way, he died too young. He contributed much.

There are lots of good ideas and information in this thread. I want to thank those who contributed to working out my puzzle and offered valuable help.

Now, out to the laboratory to build the incorruptible powder hopper. :bigsmyl2:

[rsrocket1]

I keep powder in the measure only for the duration of a single loading session. Even at that, 4 pounds of Bullseye going through the LNL AP hopper (typically for less than an hour at a time) has turned the bottom half a smokey brown with a mottled texture. Other powders did not do that but I've heard different powders react with different hoppers.

Empty the powder hopper after every session. You'll never know what catastrophe you'll avoid until you don't do this.

[ROGER4314]

I've had Bullseye stick to my RCBS and Dillon powder measures. I quit worrying about it. If it gets the reservoirs too nasty, I'll replace them.

After using Bullseye for years then laying off for a while to repair hurricane damage, The newer powder smokes more that the old stuff. It also leaves more soot. It's easy to clean off but there was a change in the 4-5 years that I stopped loading.

Flash