Need suggestions for a fireforming load .22 hornet to K-hornet.

[bgokk]

I have 100 winchester hornet cases new unprimed and 88 C225-55-RF Bator SO GC as cast weight of 43.5 grains. The boolits are cast from an alloy of 37% tin and 63% lead. (I know that is a waste of tin but I have about 800 or more pounds of that alloy.:bigsmyl2:) and besides it does not take very much for the Bators.:roll:

I have available Bullseye, Unique, IMR Hi-Skor 700X, HP-38, W-231 and others. I hope that gas checks won't be needed.

What is best a long pressure curve or a short one?

Before cast boolits I just loaded J-words to normal Hornet velocities and lost a few to splits in the neck or shoulder. These however were previously fired cases.

I am open to all suggestions.

Thanks to all who respond.

[warf73]

When I fire formed my Cheetah brass I never used boolits/bullets, I used a wax plug.
To help reduce split ends I annealed the brass after reducing my dia. (I was using 243 brass sized down to .224), this might also help in your case.
As for my load I was using Red dot 2~4grains with Cream of wheat on top (full to top of case) then I pressed the wax over top the case to cap it.
Wipe of excess wax then shoot, just don’t shoot into a steel door (leaves nasty dents at 20 feet) in your garage on a cold winter’s night lol.

For your brass I would anneal it.
Load up 1~2grains of Bullseye with COW over top. Test 2 or 3 first with your powder charge to make sure the case is moving enough if not increase the charge by .5gr. Use caution one charge will be fine the next .5grs primers start to fall out.
Then cap it with wax and shoot the cases to get your fire formed brass.

There is no real reason to use up bullets/boolits fire forming unless you just really want to. I’m too cheap to shoot real projectiles when fire forming.

[303Guy]

I'm with the annealing school (depending on the brass) but since you have 100 cases, why not load them up to whatever load seems good for cast and shoot them. Once they are all fire-formed the POI might shift a little when re-reloading them but that will happen as you develop a load anyway. With most powders, the K-hornet load will fit in the un-formed case.

[mroliver77]

New brass has already been annealed.
I wouldnt think pressure curve to be relevant as long as there is enough pressure to get the job done. I would load with Bullseye to whatever the boolits will handle. I would rather load plinkers than to waste powder for fireforming only.
I have read that too much tin in a boolit will deposit it in the barrel.
J

[Bent Ramrod]

Both Kilbourne and Ackley advised that a fire-forming load should be the equivalent of a good stiff load in the standard chamber. Unless something is wrong with the brass (headspace stretching, mercuric primers, extreme usage), typically the well-intentioned lighter loads tended to split more shoulders and cause more case loss than the "snappy" ones. These opinions are recorded in Landis' Twenty-Two Caliber Varmint Rifles, and my own fireforming efforts have never contradicted them.

This advice, of course, is for fireforming loads that use bullets, rather than fillers and wads. Those require loadings that have no relationship to real rounds.

[lightman]

I use the max load for the parent case when forming cases for my 22-250 ack. The K-Hornet is an improved case, so I would probably use a max load for the original Hornet. There is probably not a wrong answer as to powder. My fire forming loads were very accurate, too! Lightman

[303Guy]

Well, 13grs of Lil'Gun hardly constitutes using up a lot of valuable powder. In bigger cases it would make sense but it now emerges that full tilt loads shoot accurately. I am surprised that 'fire-forming' loads split more cases but perhaps it has something to do with the wad used and fast powder that makes the wad pull the case forward which would increase the stress on the case in the area being fire-formed.

Are new cases annealed in the shoulder area? Are hornet cases annealed at all? Is softer brass being used for the hornet? I have expanded a hornet primer pocket and I thought the pressure was rather low to do that but then I have no idea of the actual pressure.

[leadman]

I just load them and shoot. Hard to tell the difference between the fireform load and fully formed. The previous post about using a stiff load is good for most of the Ackley cartridges but I normally use a less than max 22 Hornet load to fireform to K-Hornet. The brass is very thin so care is needed to make it last. I do lose more to buggering up the mouth than anything though.
The 30-30 AI needs a max load to fireform fully with one load.
Any of the listed powders will work.

[btroj]

Hornet to K-hornet is simple. Just load them with a decent load and shoot. The case is thin enough to easily expand to fill the chamber.

[altheating]

Anneal first ,load them and shoot em. I have done over 1000 this year so far. Only a couple of splits in all of them and they were with really old winchester cases.

[Newtire]

Seems to depend on brass you are using. So far, none of the new Winchester brass I have formed split any cases. Fired 100 ppu factory loads and split 23 of them. I took 40 new ppu cases, stood them up in water to about the 1/2 way mark and hit them with a propane torch for 4-5 seconds before tipping them over. Not real scientific I know.....

Still, split only 2 cases out of 40 (5% vs. 23%). Used a 10.5 grain charge of IMR 4227 and a 45 grain Sierra. Am going to pull and deprime the other 3 boxes of factory ppu and load them up with a Bator and all else the same. Heat the cases an even 5 seconds and see. Last time I heated the cases, I got real good tight feel of bullets seating.

The factory ppu hornet contained a 45 gr. bullet that looked alot like the Speer RN and 10.0 gr.of some kind of powder that looked alot like WW 296/H110. Was very accurate stuff in spite of all the split cases. The bullets were glued in with some real tenacious sealant! Maybe a secret to consistent burn? Sorry, Senior Brain Wander (SBW) kicking in....

[bgokk]

I apologize for not getting back to thank all who gave their thoughts to my question.
Thank you all so very much! You are:awesome:

[Cap'n Morgan]

Just one more thing about fireforming... If possible, seat the bullets to engage the rifling when the bolt is closed. That will keep the brass from stretching excessively.

[bgokk]

Just one more thing about fireforming... If possible, seat the bullets to engage the rifling when the bolt is closed. That will keep the brass from stretching excessively.
I'll keep that in mind for when the weather permits getting out. Thanks!

[Newtire]

I used a 9 gr. load of IMR 4227 and a Bator for a nice fill out without wasting j-words for fireforming. Worked just as good as when using j-word bullets. No gas check needed just to form cases.

[Blackwater]

Until recently, I always just fireformed normally loaded stuff to make the imp. brass. Recently, however, I helped a buddy form some 7mm. Wby. from 7 mm. Rem. brass, and we used the old small charge of pistol powder, toilet paper wad with cream of wheat to near the top of the neck, and a melted wax cap over the top. We also lubed the cases so they'll slide in the fireforming process into the larger chamber, and not stick to the chamber walls and possibly split or make thin spots internally. The chamber has to be thoroughly degreased after this to take out the lube and let it function as originally designed with normal loads.

This is really cheap, and produced some really good looking brass. After forming radical changes in imp. chambers, I like to anneal the case necks, just to be sure, and to promote longer case life.

If you try this, don't forego the lubing the outside of the cases. It's important. And no, there's no danger in increased bolt thrust by lubing these COW loads, but be SURE to clean the chamber of all lube after forming cases.

[Newtire]

We also lubed the cases so they'll slide in the fireforming process into the larger chamber, and not stick to the chamber walls and possibly split or make thin spots internally. The cham lber has to be thoroughly degreased after this to take out the lube and let it function as originally designed with normal loads.

This is really cheap, and produced some really good looking brass. After forming radical changes in imp. chambers, I like to anneal the case necks, just to be sure, and to promote longer case life. This sounds like a cool way to do it. You sure pick up alot of things here...

[BAGTIC]

Load them with the same full power load you use in the standard .22 Hornet. You will get a well formed case and the ballistics areclose enough that at short ranges you will probably not notice the difference. This approach works with my .22 K-Hornet and my 7x57mm AI.

[303Guy]

If you try this, don't forego the lubing the outside of the cases. It's important. And no, there's no danger in increased bolt thrust by lubing these COW loads,
It's a hornet. It has a head size akin to a pin head. Just how much bolt thrust can there be? These are guns are designed for much more powerful cartridges with larger case heads and the hornet brass is so thin it really doesn't reduce the thrust much anyway.

[pkie44]

Just one more thing about fireforming... If possible, seat the bullets to engage the rifling when the bolt is closed. That will keep the brass from stretching excessively.

Good advice.