Hunting loads for 45-70 405 gr.

[Bob86/71]

After 4 years of looking and saving I bought the lever gun Ive been searching for! Its a Pedersoli 1886/71 Premium 45-70. I even passed up a Browning re-issue 86 to buy this one. Now I need some help with the best loads to hunt and plink with 405 gr. Ive broken it in with 60 rounds of box ammo with amazing results and, tons of cleaning. I want to keep it lead and heavy from now on. Ive got plenty 405 cast, 2 diff. moulds and lots of new brass. Varget, IMR 4198 and IMR SR4759. I am not recoil sensitive but, Id like to keep the cup under 29000. I know, no bears in Nebraska soooo, where do I start? All help and advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks! 24" bbl, 1 in 18 twist, 6 groove

[smokeywolf]

I've not yet tried 4759 in 45-70, but shot a fair amount of 4198 under 400 grn. +/- cast. Kinda favor 3031. Funny thing; as I was typing that I just realized, I've never fired a jaxteded boolit out of any 45-70. Is there actually a need for copper condoms on any 45-70 boolit? I suppose if you wanted to hot rod a 300 grn boolit out of a Ruger #1.

smokeywolf

[aspangler]

My favorite load for the 45-70 is 25 grains 2400, oke-wonder wad on top of powder, Lee 405 gr fn, slight taper crimp. 1.5 in groups at 100 yards.

[trapdoor1873]

I use 40 grains of IMR3031 with an Ohaus 45-405-F in my 1895 Marlin. This is not a full load but has significant recoil. 5 rounds is enough at 1 sitting. Just under 2 inch group at 100 yards. http://www.flickr.com/photos/sodcity/8567849496/

[bigted]

the old Elmer Keith load of 53 grains IMR 3031 and a 400ish boolit will allow you to know you have a RIFLE in your hands. this load is great with 350's as well. it is also a 100% load which is good for excellent accuracy. this is a hunting load and not a bunch of fun for all the time. however ...

load 2 is a great amount of fun in my levers and single shots alike ... 34 grains RL-7 ... enough cornmeal to kiss the bottom of a loaded boolits base and to compress it around 1/16th of an inch ... sparked with a cci 200 large rifle primer ... loaded in a rem case ... you can load em without the filler but I have always gotten better accuracy with a 100% load in the case ... these are so fun with the same 400 or 350 grain boolits. this load can be shot for an entire afternoon with no beating of either the rifle nor shooter.

a very nice load with your 400 grainers is 8 or 9 grains Unique with a cci 200 prime in the same case ... these are so addictive that you better take a hundred with you for an outing.

now for the very best in 45-70's ... lever or single shots ... take 70 grains 2f blackpowder and load a .060 vegi wad over powder then compress it so your boolit will load to the crimp groove ... now crimp to keep the boolit in place and go have way too much fun!!! these are the original sharps loadings as I understand it ... as the military loads were a bit lighter being a 55 grain load with either cork or cardboard wads to take up the space...I have never gotten these [the 55 grain load] to shoot well for me but they are huge in the fun dept.

what ever you do first things first... take your fired cases from your rifle and slightly bell the mouth and measure the mouth and neck of the case. this will give you the diameter your rifle wants to fill the throat and as long as you shoot something along the line of 30 to 1 or purer lead percentage then these should surprise you in the accuracy dept.

have a blast with your new arrival.

[Guido4198]

My best Guide Gun load with the Lee # 90374 (400-ish depending upon alloy) has been with 45 gns. IMR 3031.

[Lead Fred]

Ive put my 405 molds out to pasture, but when I used them my standard load was 38gr Reloader 7, veggie wad, dacron filler.
Ive since lowered the grainage to 34 grs, and moved up to a Ranch Dog 425.

[pipehand]

Since you have 4198, 32 grains of it under a 400 to 425 grain boolit worked in my Guide Gun. Under 28000 psi for sure, and pleasant to shoot at 1300 fps+.

[sharpsguy]

I hate to rain on your parade, but your rifle is not going to shoot 400 grain and lighter bullets all that well. The problem is the 1-18 twist. You need a longer, heavier bullet that will cycle through the action. Get a Lyman 457121 mold . Those 480 grain FN bullets are magic in an 18 twist, and even more so in my 20 twist Cowboy Marlin. Load 36 grains of 3031 and you will be happy.

[NSB]

I hate to rain on your parade, but your rifle is not going to shoot 400 grain and lighter bullets all that well. The problem is the 1-18 twist. You need a longer, heavier bullet that will cycle through the action. Get a Lyman 457121 mold . Those 480 grain FN bullets are magic in an 18 twist, and even more so in my 20 twist Cowboy Marlin. Load 36 grains of 3031 and you will be happy.

This ain't so. They will not only shoot the 400g bullets well, they'll shoot some 300g bullets well also. The problem may end up being that the gun as purchased, won't chamber some 400g bullets due to the short throat. I had two of these guns and neither would chamber a wide metplate heavy bullet unless it was seated to a short oal. Rem 405JSP would not chamber unless seated below the crimp groove. I ended up with a Win 1886 and it has the same twist rate and I'm getting groups of an inch or so (five shot) at 100yds with 300g bullets. I can tell you that out of a six and a half pound gun the lighter bullets are a lot more fun to shoot.

[Boerrancher]

Well I don't own a lever gun in 45-70, but my sharps likes 70 gr of Wanno FFg behind a 405 grain cast boolit, and my bolt gun likes a case full of 2400 behind the 405 grainer. I even hesitate to mention the 2400 load because it will wreak most rifles and if it doesn't it will wreak most shooters. With that being said it is the best shooting load out of that particular rifle when I can stand to shoot it. I would personally play with the black powder loads myself if that rifle were mine.

Best wishes

Joe

[NSB]

76988
Here's a group I shot a couple of days ago out of my Win/Miruko 1886 with 300g bullets.....RemJHP and 2400 powder. Pleasant to shoot (at least pleasant compared to heavier bullets) and pretty accurate. I shot five shots in a row loading single shot and not waiting for the barrel to cool down. Not rapid fire but not slow fire either. There's plenty enough power to kill a deer without killing the shooter at the same time. I have some other loads with this bullet that will do as well or maybe a tad better. The OP asked about hunting loads, not target loads so that's what I'm showing. Good luck and have fun with the gun. I think you'll find that the light weight of this gun may have you taking a look at lighter bullets and loads.

[Clay M]

For my various .45/70 lever gun I use: Rel 7,IMR 3031,or 4895.Just depends on which shoots the best in my individual guns...enjoy

[joec]

For my various .45/70 lever gun I use: Rel 7,IMR 3031,or 4895.Just depends on which shoots the best in my individual guns...enjoy

I've also tried some Accurate 5744 which is also a good powder for the 45-70 adding it to my standards for RL 7, 3031 and 4198. I've never tried 4895 however.

[Clay M]

Yes,5744 is great for the lower velocity .45/70 loads. When I want a smokeless load for my Sharps that is what I use.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you are going to shoot the gun a lot, weight of the gun will be an important part of the equation.

My Marlin 1895CB weighs 7lbs 4oz empty. The heaviest load I have fired from this gun was 35 gr of 5744 with a 300gr RCBS. It got my attention right now!

The gun needs to be in the 9lb + range if you are going to shoot it very much. For hunting I could easily take 2-3 very heavy loads and not have to carry the extra weight. however after firing 20 loads of 25 gr of 5744 with the same 300gr slug I was done! My gun also has a very large Pachmayer recoil pad as well.

Your gun probably does not have that recoil pad, it probably has a nice crescent butt plate which will do absolutely nothing to absorb the recoil, but will work very well at transmitting every Iota directly to your body.

Problem is, you can't really get good with any gun unless you shoot it a lot. So my recommendation is that you start
with light loads of 300gr cast boolits with charges in the range of 22-25 gr of 5744 or some other light load that will yield around 1100-1200 fps, and work up until you can't take any more.

Those Black Powder loads mentioned above generated around 1200-1300 fps and have killed everything on this planet with the possible exception of some species of Whales.

Do start out slow and work up. No need to hate your gun because it kicks too much. You have to learn how to shoot it.

Randy

[Clay M]

I use an Action Kick Killer pad when working up loads off a bench.It takes most of the harsh recoil down.Then when I am hunting,it really doesn't matter to me what the recoil is since I normally only shoot once.

http://www.traphappens.com/product/API-2300

[GH1]

I've had good luck with 30 gr of 5744 under cast 405's out of my Handi. It's good for about 1400 FPS, according to the folks at Accurate. I like 5744 because it's very bulky and does a great job of filling the cavernous 45-70 cases.
It's a proven deer and pig killer.
GH1

[joec]

Now for low recoil and I'm sure it will take a pig or deer behind a 405 gr bullet, there is always 12.8 to 13 gr of good old Trailboss. It is my favorite practice load with mine. Pretty accurate also but with out the shoulder pain involved.

[NSB]

Fortunately, the Pedersoli comes with a good recoil pad on it. However, it will still get your attention. I'm pretty comfortable shooting around twenty shots with 300g bullets at or below 1600fps with a very good recoil pad on my gun. I ended up putting a Limbsaver slip on pad on my gun for load development. For hunting, where I might get two shots on a good day, I don't mind taking a hit. Usually you don't notice it when shooting at a game animal. The good part of the Limbsave is that it comes right off when you want the gun to look nice.

[Bob86/71]

Thanks for all the help! Ive loaded 194 rounds with 4 different boolits and 4 powders. I wont be able to test for 2 weeks but, I took all advice into consideration and cant wait. I loaded some dummy rounds and the pedersoli seems to cycle up to 2.750 COL with 405's just fine,As long as the rifle is perfectly level side to side. None of my loads were close to that though.

[WARD O]

Big Ted mentioned using Unique and I would suggest the same. A good friend has one of those modern gatling guns made on the shiny brass bulldog style so they look exactly like the Colts of the 1800's and I do the loading for it. We use a 400 -405 grain bullet that seats deep, like the gov't carbine, to reduce the chamber volumn and load it with 12 grains (from memory - check the wieght) of Unique which runs them out about 1300 fps just like the originals. He shoots the same ammo in his two sharps and a double rifle and it works wonderfully in all of them. Recoil is mild, accuracy is great, a pound of powder goes a long ways and brass life is very long.

ward

[jh45gun]

I too will Second 25 grains of 2400 with a 405 grain bullet. That is all I use. Thought about going with a lighter bullet but then thought this combination works so well why change. My bullet is the Lee hollow base mold sized at .459 which it is supposed to drop at.

[smkummer]

14.7 grains Unique behind either the Lyman 350 grain or 385(actually 405 grain with WW) getting 1300/1250 FPS respectfully out of a H&R officers trapdoor. Cheap and easy to load with no fillers or gas checks. I believe it will kill anything in Nebraska deader than dead. Your shoulder will appreciate that you can shoot 50 of these at one range session with a recoil pad and still enjoy the rest of the evening. 2 in. or less groups at 100 yards with open sights. What is not to like?

[btroj]

I shoot lots of 45-70 with 24 gr of 2400. I would have no qualms about shooting a deer with that load.

[joeatact]

the old Elmer Keith load of 53 grains IMR 3031 and a 400ish boolit will allow you to know you have a RIFLE in your hands. this load is great with 350's as well. it is also a 100% load which is good for excellent accuracy. this is a hunting load and not a bunch of fun for all the time. however ...

load 2 is a great amount of fun in my levers and single shots alike ... 34 grains RL-7 ... enough cornmeal to kiss the bottom of a loaded boolits base and to compress it around 1/16th of an inch ... sparked with a cci 200 large rifle primer ... loaded in a rem case ... you can load em without the filler but I have always gotten better accuracy with a 100% load in the case ... these are so fun with the same 400 or 350 grain boolits. this load can be shot for an entire afternoon with no beating of either the rifle nor shooter.

a very nice load with your 400 grainers is 8 or 9 grains Unique with a cci 200 prime in the same case ... these are so addictive that you better take a hundred with you for an outing.

now for the very best in 45-70's ... lever or single shots ... take 70 grains 2f blackpowder and load a .060 vegi wad over powder then compress it so your boolit will load to the crimp groove ... now crimp to keep the boolit in place and go have way too much fun!!! these are the original sharps loadings as I understand it ... as the military loads were a bit lighter being a 55 grain load with either cork or cardboard wads to take up the space...I have never gotten these [the 55 grain load] to shoot well for me but they are huge in the fun dept.

what ever you do first things first... take your fired cases from your rifle and slightly bell the mouth and measure the mouth and neck of the case. this will give you the diameter your rifle wants to fill the throat and as long as you shoot something along the line of 30 to 1 or purer lead percentage then these should surprise you in the accuracy dept.

have a blast with your new arrival.

I thought 45 grs of 3031 was a shoulder breaker!

[bigted]

I thought 45 grs of 3031 was a shoulder breaker!

when moose hunting an animal that can and does go 1200 lbs plus and the chance that a slightly crazed grizz is always around sniffing for blood ... the bump of a fine load of IMR 3031 is a natural for reassurance. altho not a Sunday afternoon fun machine in a light short marlin ... it IS the assurance that I look for when out trudging thru a tightly woven brace of alder or brush well over my 6foot 5inch head.

I even took some RCBS 540 grain flat nose boolits once and loaded some RL-7 behind them at a bit lower then RCBS top loads were recommended and I learned fast that these were a load that I will not repeat. a hunting guide helper friend of mine always takes 12 of these 540's with him for camp but he always uses them for loads around camp in the dark when the hungry bears have been noted to pull a sleeping bag thru a torn tent wall with a fella still tryin to wake up ... thusly the heavy's for him. course they always have meat hangin round close by so the interest is high for them to be able to protect clients and personal property ... u know like yer behind!

just shootin for shootin sake I usually take a bunch of the Unique loads for the fun rock and clod shooting that is a good test for my ability to judge distance.

45-70 ... what other funner rifle to spend a day with? specially in a lever.

[MtGun44]

57 gr W748 under 405 boolit gives accurate groups, 1750 fps in my GG and
Trapdoor pressure levels. What's not to like?
One blue wildebeest and one zebra were done with one shot each.

Bill

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Roger the 45/70 being fun to hunt/work up loads for.., my favorite hunting weapon here in Alaska/MT/Wyo..one shot one kill.
I use Reloader-7 or 3031 for most of my shooting. Getting a bit long in the tooth for the big boolits and heavy loads
:redneck::guntootsmiley:

[EMC45]

My load in the Handi has been the Lee 405gr. bullet over 15gr. Unique. 3 dead deer. Recoil on par with 20ga. birdshot loads. Accurate to boot. No recovered bullets.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My only 45/70s at the moment are a BPCR and a H&R Trapdoor. I haven't really worked up any loads with the BPCR, but the Trapdoor loves a case full of Black and a greasy boolit!