Reloading for the SKS (7.62X39)

[jeepvet]

I am shooting a Chinese SKS Paratrooper. This rifle LOVES Wolf 122gr HP ammo. (1-1 1/2" group at 50 yds). Throws the brass (steel) 10 - 15 ft. Casted some Lee C312-155-2R with alum gas checks sized at .311, seated at 2.150 with a med factory crimp. Using Alliant 2400 powder. Found a load on "Straight Dope about the SKS" thread of 14.5 - 15.5 gr. Started at 15.0 gr, 10 rds all failure to eject. Next went to 15.3 gr with same results. No leading or unusual fowling noted. Just loaded some at 15.6 gr and will shoot them today. Barrel, gas port, gas piston all shiney clean and functions well with Wolf ammo. Since the rifle functions well with Wolf ammo and not my reloads, I am thinking that I am not getting enough pressure from the 2400 powder to cycle the action. Can I SAFELY keep increasing the powder charge until the rifle functions or do I need to look for a different powder? If I need to go to a new powder, can I get some favorite loads from some of you SKS experts? :sad:

Additional Info: Boolits are 100% ww. Barrel slugs at .314, could not afford .315 or .316 boolit mold and one member pointed out that lands in barrel are much wider than groves and .311 boolit should "squish" out and fill groves and stop leading. As stated earlier, no leading noted so far.

Update: 15.6 gr 2400, same results, 10/10 failure to eject. HORRIBLE pattern at 50 yds.

[WILCO]

Stickies? Manual?

[VintageRifle]

Try copper gas checks.

[A pause for the COZ]

For me and my AK and SKS 2400 is not that great.
Try that bullet Gas Checked and sized to .311 or even better .312 ahead of:
17 gr RL-7 my Chinese SKS will do 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards. Works the action fine. Set your rear site to 300 meters and will hit point of aim.
Another one I am having luck with is same bullet and 23gr of H335 set site at battle site.

I am using 1/2 ww lead and 1/2 range scrap lead. No leading.

[jeepvet]

Wilco: Didn't find much help in the stickies or threads, some but not much. Nothing in my three manuals about 7.62x39 with cast boolits and 2400.

VintageRifle: Please educate me on the advantage of copper gas check over aluminum. Most things I have read say little to no advantage one over the other.

A pause for the Coz: The boolit is gas checked and Sized to .311, but I may try the other powders. Thanks for the sighting info too.

[VintageRifle]

Friend of mine tried aluminum gas checks on a couple batches of bullets he had cast for various rifles. His groups were much larger than the groups using copper gas checks.

I have a 30 cal. Freechex II that once I get better with it I will give them a try myself.

Not saying aluminum will not work, just something to try different.

What are your bullets dropping at? I size mine to .314. I have several sks rifles and that size works in all of them that I have tried, m59/66, sks m, type 56. Your bullet might just be a bit undersized for your bore.

[WILCO]

Wilco: Didn't find much help in the stickies or threads, some but not much. Nothing in my three manuals about 7.62x39 with cast boolits and 2400.

Okay! I'll throw you some bones:

1) Get the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook, 4th edition. Imperative for cast boolit activities.

2) This stickie is most helpful. Read in it's entirety:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

It covers the 7.62x39 cartridge and powders.

3) The Lyman Cast Bullet handbook, 4th edition lists the following:

LEE #C312-155-2R
155 gr. (10 to 1 alloy) 2.155" OAL.
Sized to .310".

IMR4227 powder is listed as the best choice.

[shredder]

I use 2400 and the same boolit you are using in my SKS with great success. What I do different is I use copper gas checks and I have gone to 16 grains of 2400 to cycle the action. Accuracy was not good until I hit the threshold that worked the action. At that point things picked up. This is the most accurate load in my sks of anything I have shot. Be sure to clean up the gas piston as the top portion seems to gather a light wash of lead. Never found any in the barrell though. The only trouble I have is finding the brass when the shooting stops!

[jeepvet]

Wilco: Thanks. I love gnawing on bones, I just don't read very fast. Lots of great info in that article and thread. Thanks again.

VintageRifle: I too have a Freechex II. I don't like to change things for changes sake, but if what I am doing is not working a change is needed. Copper might be just the fix I need. Thanks.

shredder: Thanks for the assurance that 16gr 2400 is safe. I did find in another thread today that 16.5gr 2400 is also safe so I am thinking that I will just start with increasing the powder charge first and see where that takes me.

Lots of good info and help from people in the know. Thanks.

[jeepvet]

16.0 gr Alliant 2400 did not cycle the action. Accuracy improved greatly. 16.5 gr Alliant 2400 still did not cycle the action but still had acceptable accuracy. However I began to see some overpressure signs. I feel I have reached the max for 2400. I did purchase the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and will try another powder.

[Vinne]

Okay!

IMR4227 powder is listed as the best choice.

J Vet, Wilco is right on. I am very happy with IMR4227. Just work up a load that your gun likes and have fun. Lets face it...they aren't the most accurate a rifle unless you customize but that's not why we got them.

[jeepvet]

Yea, sounds good. I live in a very small town where powder is hard to get even when in abundance everywhere else. I'm just trying to use something I already have on the shelf. Unique at 8.5 gr and 9.0 gr is no better. Until I can get some 4227 I may try 4895 next, then H322. Surely I can sneak up on something out of the book that I have that will work.

If I can keep the accuracy at 2-3" at 100yds I will be HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY!

Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments.

[roscottjr]

just a thought but have you checked your crimp? I read somewhere that if not crimped correctly it wont cycle the action. I am curious to what your problem turns out to be myself. I have not yet got my press but will be loading my SKS rounds with exactly what you are using. However, I also agree with VintageRifle, your bullet may be slightly undersized for your bore.

[turmech]

I have a Chinese SKS and work load of 2400 up to 16.5 grains with the Lee 312-155 non TL bullet. I had about 80% reliable feeding past 15.5 grains. I lost some accuracy above 16 grains. 16.5 grains had me around 1850 fps.

I have read other post that said folks had problems with aluminum checks in the 7.62x39, but I can't say as yet. I do have some aluminum ones now but the one I had previously casted already have copper ones. I am seating the checks with a .314 Lee sizing die. The bullet is not being sized with that die and is staying pretty much at the as cast diameter. I would say a bigger size bullet would help with accuracy.

The thread posted above has some info on the 4895 you have IIRC.

[milprileb]

Lets talk gas checks , discussion of copper vs aluminum is moot if your load and casting procedures are flawed. If you got that under control, you may find zero difference between Hornady / Lyman gas checks and those made by check maker tool on your bench and aluminum material.

Immediately jumping to any conclusion that the check is causing accuracy issues is reaching for straws.

I am getting 4 to 5 inch groups at 300 meters with aluminum gas checks with my No1MkIII* Lithgow Enfield and one M1 Garand rifle.

[shredder]

just a thought but have you checked your crimp? I read somewhere that if not crimped correctly it wont cycle the action. I am curious to what your problem turns out to be myself. I have not yet got my press but will be loading my SKS rounds with exactly what you are using. However, I also agree with VintageRifle, your bullet may be slightly undersized for your bore.

This is something I neglected to mention. I crimp my boolits fairly heavily with the sizing die to withstand the not so gentle chambering of the SKS. Something else to try.

[jeepvet]

I have been crimping with a factory crimp die set at 1/2 turn past touch (med crimp). I am hearing ya'll say to use the crimp on the seating die. I will try that and see what results I get. At 16.5 gr of 2400 I beginning to have cases that were hard to eject manually, showed slight scuffing (as if dragging on the sides of the chamber), flattened primers and a ridge around the firing pin dent. I took these signs to mean that I was getting a little too much pressure with that load, but the action still did not cycle.

The weapon is clean, gas tube and all, and well greased. Works great with Wolfe 122gr HP ammo, and very accurate too. Just can't figure this one out. I will try all of these suggestions one at a time and try to find out what works. The reason I have not sized at .314 is that the largest inside neck sizing pin in my Lee dies is .312. I need to get a larger pin in order to use a larger bullet, but haven't been able to talk to Lee to see if they make one.

Still looking for 2447 powder. Maybe some day....

[turmech]

I am not sure if I understand what you mean by neck sizing pin. This may be my ignorance. Are you meaning you can't expand the case mouth to accept the .314 bullets? If that is the case you need to use something like a lee universal case expander or a similar tool. Again I may be misinterpreting what you are saying.

[jeepvet]

Sorry, poor terminology. I am talking about the depriming pin that also expands the case neck as you extract the case from the sizing die. Lee 7.62x39 sets come with a .309 and a .312 dia expander so a .314 bullet will not fit without shaving some lead off. Was trying to contact Lee and see if there is an expander with .314 dia, but the universal expander might just do the trick.

[turmech]

Yes the universal expander will solve that problem or it a least does for me. There are other tools that can do the same thing or maybe even better but the universal will work for many different calibers. Most if not all your bottle neck cases will need this done to allow for cast bullets, as the inside of the necks get sized for jacketed diameters with all dies I have used.

A crude way which will work is OK at least for a try to see if a bigger bullet solves some of your accuracy problems would be to use needle nose pliers inside the case mouth to apply a little bell to the case mouth.

[jeepvet]

Just talked to Lee. They do not make an expander in .314 for the 7.62x39 Russian. Best I could understand they make one for the .303 British but it will not work in 7.62x39. Therefore I assume the .314 sizer they make is for .303 British???

Yet another question about neck expansion. The universal expander (or needle nosed pliers) will only bell the opening of the case mouth. Can I assume that the cast bullet is harder than the brass and will expand the case neck as it is seated, or will the smaller case neck resize the bullet as it is seated?

[turmech]

I would suspect there are some exceptions to the rule but in general once the case mouth will accept the base of the cast bullets everything will work itself out or it has at least for me. Best thing would be to expand the case mouth, seat the bullet and if your suspect a problem pull the bullet with an inertia puller and remeasure it.

I am guilty of this myself, so please don't take offense, but I think you may be over thinking this one.

[3006guns]

About a year ago, one of our members posted a cast load that solved my SKS cycling problems completely. He was developing a "pig load" at the time so you know he was serious. It consisted of:

Cast boolit, 175 grains, sized to .312, gas checked.
21-22 grains of 4895.

Note: Because the boolit is long and the case neck short, the gas check will be down in the powder. This is normally a no-no, but I experienced no problems whatsoever.

My Yugo SKS cycles perfectly with 22 grains and accuracy at 100 yards is quite good, about 4", certainly acceptable for hunting. 4895 is a slower powder than 2400, so the pressure is developed over a longer period of time causing the action to cycle. In my gun 2400 just moved the bolt back but not enough to eject or chamber a fresh round. I didn't chronograph my loads but the gentleman who came up with the load clocked his in the neighborhood of a 30-30 if I recall.

[jeepvet]

Mr. Turmech: You said nothing that I could possibly take offense too. No problemo. But I will admit that this is the first time that I have ever been accused of OVER thinking anything. Usually it is quite the opposite. But since you mentioned it, I have been thinking that 2400 my develop lots of PRESSURE but just not enough gas VOLUME to cycle the weapon partially due to the fact that it is a paratrooper with a shorter distance from the gas port to the end of the pipe.

Mr. 3006guns: I DO like 4895, esp in my 30.06. It pushes that 165gr Hornady SST to the same place on the paper, and the animal, all day long. May just have to try that 22gr load on this SKS. Thanks.

[A pause for the COZ]

Just talked to Lee. They do not make an expander in .314 for the 7.62x39 Russian. Best I could understand they make one for the .303 British but it will not work in 7.62x39. Therefore I assume the .314 sizer they make is for .303 British???

Yet another question about neck expansion. The universal expander (or needle nosed pliers) will only bell the opening of the case mouth. Can I assume that the cast bullet is harder than the brass and will expand the case neck as it is seated, or will the smaller case neck resize the bullet as it is seated?

Ok here is the fix for that. use the 303 expander in any large case rifle die. Size and de cap in your normal die then ,Use the larger die with the 303 expander just to expand the neck in your 7.62x39 cases.

I do that with 308win cases and a 7.62x54 expander.

[jeepvet]

Ok here is the fix for that. use the 303 expander in any large case rifle die. Size and de cap in your normal die then ,Use the larger die with the 303 expander just to expand the neck in your 7.62x39 cases.

I do that with 308win cases and a 7.62x54 expander.

Well duhhh, didn't over think that one. That's why this site is so great. Lots of knowledgeable people to bounce things off of and to remind you to sometimes KISS it (Keep It Simple Stupid). I really need that. Thanks!

[noylj]

>Found a load on "Straight Dope about the SKS" thread of 14.5 - 15.5 gr. Started at 15.0 gr

Isn't it great to see someone NOT start with the starting load?
I would get the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and START with the STARTING load.

[pipehand]

jeepvet, so far one poster told you to ditch the aluminum gas checks, and another said he got great results with Al gaschecks in his milsurps. The first poster didn't tell you it was because your chrome lined bore may not be getting along with the aluminum. The gentleman having good results with the Al checks does not have chrome lined bores.

Caveat here is that I have no personal experience with Aluminum checks at all (will probably in the future, but have several K copper on hand) but from what I've read there is some type of galling that takes place between the chrome and aluminum that doesn't take place between Aluminum and chrome-moly steel.

It's been a while since I've had an SKS, but when I did, I used the original C.E. Harris designed boolit from an NEI mold #72a, with 22 grains of Reloader 7 in an IMI case. The boolits were checked with hornady checks, sized to .312, oven heat treated and then lubed. Accuracy was better than Chinese ball in the SKS, and around MOA in a Ruger M77.