Powder Coat Piglet style VS Klass Kote

[Lights]

So I have tried the Klass Kote. It worked well in my 9mm. The .45 acp was iffy but I think I need to size the .45 acp .001 larger. I just ordered some PC from PBTP and will try some done up Piglet style using Lacquer thinner for a solvent. Has anyone else compared the two coatings? Please do not bring Hi Tek coatings into this thread. No disrespect to it, I know it works and all but would like to keep this between Piglet PC and Klass Kote.

Thanks
Lights

[Maximumbob54]

I plan to try both soon. I have everything on order and am still waiting on the Klass Kote, HF PC, and the cheap oven. I already have the Powder By the Pound samples that I ordered (they have crazy fast service). I bought some lacquer thinner and plan to do the Piglet method. I have little desire to use the gun for spraying powder so if that fails then I will focus on the epoxy paint tumble. I did order the HBN powder only to have it be backordered on me. I may try an initial batch with some fine graphite added instead of the HBN to see if that acts in a similar manner as graphite is at least ten times cheaper. But for now I'm suffering through check the mailbox syndrome....

[prickett]

What is the advantage of Laquer Thinner over Acetone? I've used Piglet Coat and have been happy with the results, but if laquer thinner provides an advantage, I'd be all for it.

Skip has actually used both Klass Kote and Piglet Coat. IIRC, he thought KK was more difficult to control the coating process (was affected by temperature whereas PC is not). I believe he was successful with both, though.

[Lights]

What is the advantage of Laquer Thinner over Acetone? I've used Piglet Coat and have been happy with the results, but if laquer thinner provides an advantage, I'd be all for it.

Skip has actually used both Klass Kote and Piglet Coat. IIRC, he thought KK was more difficult to control the coating process (was affected by temperature whereas PC is not). I believe he was successful with both, though.

I found this on another forum. http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=84219 He claims the Lacquer thinner works way better.

[alfloyd]

I tried lacquer thinner with HF red power and found that it did NOT work as well as Acetone.
I have good results with the Piglet method using HF red powder on my 9MM slugs.

Lafaun

[prickett]

I found this on another forum. http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=84219 He claims the Lacquer thinner works way better.

Thanks Lights. Guess its time to try some L.T. :-)

I love how creative casters are. Now, if they'd just come up with a way that my boolits could cast themselves :-)

[Maximumbob54]

Thanks Lights. Guess its time to try some L.T. :-)

I love how creative casters are. Now, if they'd just come up with a way that my boolits could cast themselves :-)

Never seen Magma's Mark 8 bullet Master??? Prepare yourself...

http://www.magmaengineering.com/component/banners/click/9/

[prickett]

Never seen Magma's Mark 8 bullet Master??? Prepare yourself...

http://www.magmaengineering.com/component/banners/click/9/

That $11,350 would buy a whole bunch of boolits cast by someone else :-)

[Maximumbob54]

That $11,350 would buy a whole bunch of boolits cast by someone else :-)

That's why I said prepare yourself... for the pricetag!!!! :shock:

[Maximumbob54]

My first tumble of Klass Kote:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130725_172543_758_zps4b835284.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130725_172543_758_zps4b835284.jpg.html)

I will coat them again one more time tonight. I know a thin coat should keep them from puddling but I want to see if they can lay on the wax paper or if they need to stand up.

[Lights]

I just got my gloss Klass Kote catalyst today. I will say this the satin catalyst works but it is a PITA to mix. It has a ton of solids in it. The gloss has none. My PBTP powder order also showed up today. I need to get over to Wally World and get an oven later tonight. The wife about killed me the last time I cured Klass Kote'd boolits in here oven. Then I will compare Klass Kote to PC'd boolits on a far side by side test.

[prickett]

I will coat them again one more time tonight. I know a thin coat should keep them from puddling but I want to see if they can lay on the wax paper or if they need to stand up.

Bob, try drying them on some hardware mesh. That is how HI-TEKers and Piglet Coaters do it.

[Maximumbob54]

Bob, try drying them on some hardware mesh. That is how HI-TEKers and Piglet Coaters do it.

I have a new roll ready I just wanted to try this first. It hasn't been long but I just handled a few and they don't stick at all. The best part is the epoxy doesn't look like it is puddling at all but once again I'm doing a thin coat.

[Lights]

I tumbled and baked some 9mm and .45 boolits yesterday. I used lacquer thinning with the PC and they come out like they have zits all over them.:mad: On the other hand I also did some up with Klass Kote and they came out nice.:smile: I may not have let the PC'ed ones flash enough before baking them. I will be off to the range to try them out in my RIA 1911 in the morning.

[Maximumbob54]

Cheap Harbor Freight powder coat, Kleen Strip lacquer thinner, and a cheap bucket from Home Depot:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_080442_381_zpsea2c870d.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_080442_381_zpsea2c870d.jpg.html)

I added some thinner over the bullets and swished it around and then dusted on some powder then shake a little add more powder and shake a little and continue until even:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_080448_266_zpsd6ec1f43.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_080448_266_zpsd6ec1f43.jpg.html)

I made a screen with a couple of layers of hardware cloth and rolled the edges to prevent any bullets rolling off:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_080922_786_zps5ebaa26d.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_080922_786_zps5ebaa26d.jpg.html)

Bake them at 400 degrees for thirty minutes but make sure the thinner has all dried first or they go boom in oven... Ask me how I know. No wait, don't...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_081112_002_zps32436a7b.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_081112_002_zps32436a7b.jpg.html)

Results in about half an hour...

[Lights]

I will try the PC again today.

[Ausglock]

nice. Will have to try this.
Thanks.

[Maximumbob54]

They turned out a little brown from the initial red color and they aren't perfect looking but ugly bullets still shoot good...

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_085528_244_zps7065e833.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_085528_244_zps7065e833.jpg.html)

[Maximumbob54]

After second coating and baking:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_103341_736_zps33d0c430.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_103341_736_zps33d0c430.jpg.html)

I'm finding they stick to the mesh pretty bad. Is anyone else getting this or am I doing something wrong?

[jmort]

Do you really need the second coat?

[Maximumbob54]

Do you really need the second coat?

I'm not sure. The coating looked a little thin in the uneven areas so I gave it a second coating.

The the epoxy vs. PC aspect of this thread though... So far my Klass Kote epoxy is failing:

Klass Kote sizing after a few days:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_121445_454_zpsd1bcf674.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_121445_454_zpsd1bcf674.jpg.html)

HFPC sizing after cooling down from this morning's baking session:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_121518_574_zps1ec64910.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_121518_574_zps1ec64910.jpg.html)

The epoxy may need a third coat, may need to set longer, or may need to be tumbled in HBN or graphite instead of mixing it in the paint but either way they are failing during sizing. The HFPC actually cleaned out lead I didn't know was in the sizing die. They went through very easy with only the usual amount of effort while the epoxy felt like I was about to rip the press off the bench. I will let the epoxy set a few more days and try again and if they fail then they will get dusted with lube or a third layer may be needed.

One thing is for sure though, so far the HFPC is winning. But it's ugly... :oops:

[Lights]

Just got back from the range. Both PC and Klass Kote worked well. I like the Klass kote better. I can put it on thinner than I can the PC and the boolits do not look like a teenagers face after a week of eating pizza. The trick was to size my boolits .002 over grove diameter and tumble them with just super thin coat of JPW. No leading at all after 30 shots in a rougher than average .45 acp barrel.

Picture is of my 9mm boolits I do not have a good one right now of my .45 boolits. But the look pretty much the same.

[prickett]

Does the JPW smoke when shot?

[Maximumbob54]

Lights - How thin are you applying the Klass Kote and how many layers? And you tumble them in JPW the final round?

I'm finding that a much lighter dusting of powder coat the first time is looking a lot better this go around:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_154703_979_zpsde2ba6d3.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130728_154703_979_zpsde2ba6d3.jpg.html)

[Lights]

I apply just enough to wet the boolits. I do two coats. If I have too much KK in the bucket I just add more boolits or blot the ones that are in the tub. I did learn that you need to remove all of the KK left on the bucket or use a new one every time you apply it. Otherwise you will start getting thick chunks of old dry KK coming off of the dirty tube and on to your boolits. Then they will looks as ugly as the PC with zits. I thin my KK with lacquer thinner.

The JPW does not smoke at all for me. I apply a vary small amount and when the boolits are still warm from the oven.

[Maximumbob54]

I apply just enough to wet the boolits. If applied thin enough it will not coat the lube grove. If I have too much KK in the bucket I just add more boolits or blot the ones that are in the tub. I did learn that you need to remove all of the KK left on the bucket or use a new one every time you apply it. Otherwise you will start getting thick chunks of old dry KK coming off of the dirty tube and on to your boolits. Then they will looks as ugly as the PC with zits. I thin my KK with lacquer thinner.

The JPW does not smoke at all for me. I apply a vary small amount and when the boolits are still warm from the oven.

Are you baking them? If so, how high is the temp and for how long?

[Lights]

I bake them at 210-220 for 20 min after each coat.

[Jumbopanda]

I may have to try Klass Kote since I want to coat heat treated bullets and Hi-Tek requires curing temperatures that would undo heat treating.

[Maximumbob54]

Lights - I'm going to melt mine back down and start over copying what you do as mine are still failing:

The one on the left was a thicker coat than the one on the right and they both failed during sizing
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130729_170629_990_zps2f7fc24b.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130729_170629_990_zps2f7fc24b.jpg.html)

[Lights]

Looks to me like to much paint and they were still to tacky when you put them on the screen.

Lights


Lights - I'm going to melt mine back down and start over copying what you do as mine are still failing:

The one on the left was a thicker coat than the one on the right and they both failed during sizing
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130729_170629_990_zps2f7fc24b.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130729_170629_990_zps2f7fc24b.jpg.html)

[Maximumbob54]

Those were done last week. I just tried to let them set in hope the epoxy would cure harder. Nope.

I did some following your advice but with one omission. I didn't have another bucket. So they banged up all the old epoxy and look all crusty. I gave them a second thinned coat and they are cooling. They still look like they don't have enough coverage on them. I have to get ready to call it a night as 4AM comes way too early but I may add another coat or two tomorrow.

I know, I know, you said you a clean bucket...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130729_203618_383_zpse850d681.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130729_203618_383_zpse850d681.jpg.html)

But on a whim I also ran two through the sizing die and then sat two unsized next to them... It's hard to tell which are which without close inspection...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130729_203854_248_zps40e85a41.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130729_203854_248_zps40e85a41.jpg.html)

It may look like they failed in sizing but these didn't have full coverage on the driving bands which is why I sat two unsized next to them as an example.

I think this may be the ticket but I either need to get them a little bit thicker (not so much thinner) or just do a second or third coat. At least this now shows promise!!!

Thank you Lights for your assistance!!! [smilie=s:

[evil5826]

Klass Kote 2 coats 45 acp HP 200gr. Watch Wiederlader's video on youtube. This have already been sized and are about a week old.
77642 77645

[Lights]

Yep them look about perfect Evil5826.

[Maximumbob54]

Baked the previously air dried epoxy and they went right through the sizer like butter without scuffing...

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130730_181023_674_zpsa4616d2d.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130730_181023_674_zpsa4616d2d.jpg.html)

That's on top of 32.5gr of IMR 3031 for the lightest load I could find data.

[Maximumbob54]

I learned a new lesson yesterday. While epoxy drying on wax paper does not stick... epoxy does indeed stick to wax paper when baked in an oven set to 215 degrees... do these count as partial paper patched now....? http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Smiley/LOLsignslap.gif (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Smiley/LOLsignslap.gif.html)

I'm going to try some more tonight but take a few days for the process. They look really good if you let them air dry on the wax paper. So the plan is cast, tumble in KK, allow to air dry a few hours or overnight, pour into the tray. They don't seem to stick if in contact with each other if they are mostly air dry cured first. So after baking they may not even need the second coat if done right the first time. Using the KK in a 1:1 and then diluting that at about a 1:2 with lacquer thinner seems to give good coverage without thinning so much they need a second coat. Since nothing comes off during sizing after they bake then I think this needs to be the next serious test.

[Maximumbob54]

Trying a new source of powder:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162734_336_zps4c1ef94c.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162734_336_zps4c1ef94c.jpg.html)

This seems to be working much better. I must admit I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here. If it weren't for all the info posted on this forum then I wouldn't have even thought about trying any of this. Thank you to all that have posted pics and tested their results.

You mix the powder with the lacquer thinner in about a 1:4 powder to thinner and shake shake shake until the thinner is dry and the bullets are coated:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162628_513_zps4411b95c.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162628_513_zps4411b95c.jpg.html)

Initially you may think you don't have enough powder but just keep shaking until everything dries. Once dry bake in the oven at 400 for 10 minutes just like the label says.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162712_289_zps2d9c8890.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162712_289_zps2d9c8890.jpg.html)

That's the first coating and I plan on doing a second one tonight. These will be loaded for shooting tomorrow. The previous HF batch will also be tested.

TBC...

EDIT:

I failed to mention something that I find to be a HUGE WIN for powder coat so far.

Since you have to shake the bullets in the bucket until the thinner evaporates off that means the bullets are dry. For whatever chemical reasoning the baking and cooling of the finish does next to nothing to make the bullets stick to each other. I just did a rather large batch just to prove this to myself. The Powder by the Pound powder is polyester based while the HP powder is epoxy based. Go figure the HF bullets stuck together a little more but still not as bad as the two part paint tumbled bullets. The HF powder may only be $5 a pound but the PBTP is so far around $10 to $20 and seems to be coating much better and isn't sticking really at all. I'm calling PBTP for the early win as long as it performs and .40SW should push this for a good pressure test for leading.

Oh, and yes I saw some of the bullets are fragged. I plan on culling as I drop them in cases during loading tonight. I didn't want to look at each of them right now while I'm trying to cook everything and coat a second time. I see no need to handle twice when I have to handle them during loading anyways.

[evil5826]

Let me know cause I am interested in powder coating as well. Could you post a pic of the second coating after baking? Curious on what it looks like.

I shoot my Klass Kote 45acp's tomorrow. Ill post a barrel pic aftermath and target accuracy pic as well.

[fastglock]

Trying a new source of powder:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162734_336_zps4c1ef94c.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162734_336_zps4c1ef94c.jpg.html)

This seems to be working much better. I must admit I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here. If it weren't for all the info posted on this forum then I wouldn't have even thought about trying any of this. Thank you to all that have posted pics and tested their results.

You mix the powder with the lacquer thinner in about a 1:4 powder to thinner and shake shake shake until the thinner is dry and the bullets are coated:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162628_513_zps4411b95c.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162628_513_zps4411b95c.jpg.html)

Initially you may think you don't have enough powder but just keep shaking until everything dries. Once dry bake in the oven at 400 for 10 minutes just like the label says.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162712_289_zps2d9c8890.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_162712_289_zps2d9c8890.jpg.html)

That's the first coating and I plan on doing a second one tonight. These will be loaded for shooting tomorrow. The previous HF batch will also be tested.

TBC...

EDIT:

I failed to mention something that I find to be a HUGE WIN for powder coat so far.

Since you have to shake the bullets in the bucket until the thinner evaporates off that means the bullets are dry. For whatever chemical reasoning the baking and cooling of the finish does next to nothing to make the bullets stick to each other. I just did a rather large batch just to prove this to myself. The Powder by the Pound powder is polyester based while the HP powder is epoxy based. Go figure the HF bullets stuck together a little more but still not as bad as the two part paint tumbled bullets. The HF powder may only be $5 a pound but the PBTP is so far around $10 to $20 and seems to be coating much better and isn't sticking really at all. I'm calling PBTP for the early win as long as it performs and .40SW should push this for a good pressure test for leading.

Oh, and yes I saw some of the bullets are fragged. I plan on culling as I drop them in cases during loading tonight. I didn't want to look at each of them right now while I'm trying to cook everything and coat a second time. I see no need to handle twice when I have to handle them during loading anyways.


That looks good ! Nice coverage. The second coat will make it perfect.

I have that mold too... I'm willing to pay extra for better powder myself. Thanks!

[Maximumbob54]

Loaded second coat:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_184535_501_zps48ca427f.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130801_184535_501_zps48ca427f.jpg.html)

I did the second batch with just a bit too much powder but nothing crazy. I only say that as the thinner batch sized just fine.

[evil5826]

Is that coating sparkly or is it spotty? I can't tell. Doesn't look like the bullets are fully coated.

[prickett]

The JPW does not smoke at all for me. I apply a vary small amount and when the boolits are still warm from the oven.

Great tip! Just tried it with Piglet Coat and it eased sizing SIGNIFICANTLY!

[prickett]

You mix the powder with the lacquer thinner in about a 1:4 powder to thinner and shake shake shake until the thinner is dry and the bullets are coated:

I'm calling PBTP for the early win as long as it performs and .40SW should push this for a good pressure test for leading.


I've been using more like 1:6 and have had great luck. My HF black doesn't clump at all.

You can't declare a winner until you actually shoot the boolit! :-)

Has anyone tried a clear powder paint? That would eliminate the need to have to get an even pigment coating if there was no pigment.

[evil5826]

Do a hammer test to. I'm curious if it will flake or keep with the metal.

[Maximumbob54]

Is that coating sparkly or is it spotty? I can't tell. Doesn't look like the bullets are fully coated.

They had kind of a mottled appearance to them.

[Maximumbob54]

The good, the bad, and the ugly... Just not in that order...

Ugly first:

The Colt barrel looked like a sewer pipe after shooting the lighter coating of the HF powder coat.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130802_095701_653_zpsb810fa04.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130802_095701_653_zpsb810fa04.jpg.html)

The M&P 54c got the heavier HF powder coat.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130802_084514_815_zpsa7f2a9cf.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130802_084514_815_zpsa7f2a9cf.jpg.html)

The M&P 40c got the PBTP with a thin coat.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130802_095830_548_zps68441914.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130802_095830_548_zps68441914.jpg.html)

The good is that everything seemed to perform. My poor shooting skills demand that at some point I buy a shooting rest for true accuracy testing so I didn't take pics of the targets. As usual I did my best with the Colt and the two M&P's were at best a fist size group. All testing was done at the seven yard range because I can't shoot the M&P's well enough for grouping at the twenty five yard range and the fifteen yard range is still closed for upgrades. Everything fed from the mags, the guns all ran fine, and there were no troubles.

The bad...

I wanted to clean with the most generic cleaner possible and not use anything fancy or abnormal. My choice was Hoppes #9 as most people have it on their bench already or it's carried in just about every gun store I've ever seen and most sporting goods sections have it in stock. I swabbed the bores with a big of rag and allowed it to set for about half an hour. I made a sammich and ate it so I guess about half an hour of goofing off sammich making and eating.

Colt
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130802_102449_238_zps68c3d421.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130802_102449_238_zps68c3d421.jpg.html)

45c
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130802_102515_011_zps88cfeac2.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130802_102515_011_zps88cfeac2.jpg.html)

40c
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130802_102428_482_zpsca5d013e.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130802_102428_482_zpsca5d013e.jpg.html)

From some reviews I've read about this I've heard of some that had bores that seemed cleaner than before. Mine looked terrible after shooting and I think I may need to bronze brush them to get them spotless again.

Summary...

I am not declaring this a fail. The next batch of cast bullets will have more coatings applied but thinner each time. The HF is the hardest to work with but it does work. It's the hardest to apply in a thin layer only because the epoxy based powder is the hardest to break down in the thinner. It seems to want to clump and not apply even. The PBTP being polyester breaks down in the thinner with ease and applies very even. The .40SW bullets had two very thin coats and I really should have loaded some of the bullets that the second coat went on a bit thick and I wanted to know first if this was going to work at all. My only negative is that while leading didn't happen, the coating seemed to leave a residue behind. I don't think anyone else has mentioned this. The residue caused no loss of accuracy nor did it cause any failure to feed or other problems. If nothing else I feel like the PBTP powder is far and beyond the winner of the two. I have two more PBTP powders to try and may try them this weekend but I need to cast more boolits!!!

[fastglock]

Maximumbob54:

Thanks for the report !

How many rds fired from each gun?

What powder was used? ( Precision and BlackBulletInternational coatings tend to leave residue with fast powder such as N320. Less with W231 . And much less with N350. Seems that the slower the powder, the better, but hurt the recoil impulse)

[Maximumbob54]

After loading some more this morning I managed to have 50 each through each of them. All the .45 ACP loads were Unique and the .40 SW used Power Pistol.

[evil5826]

Ok so the following is Klass Kote Method two layers 45acp 200 grain HP with Unique Powder being shot from a Sig Sauer Elite Dark P220:

77978 6 Inch Target 30 feet. Upper left shot... I wouldn't worry about that little guy.

77979 Standard Dirty Bird target 30 feet. 8 bullets all hit the target :)

77980 After 75 Rounds

77981 One Swipe with the Bore Snake (Cobra)

Due to the firing ranges around here I am unable to retrieve the bullet nor do they have any plink plates around. So what they look like after shooting I cannot tell you.

All I can say is I am amazed! No smoke what so ever I swear and my jaw dropped. I had some one else shoot it and watched for smoke cause I couldn't believe it.

My Vote goes to Klass Kote. I may not try any others at this point in time.

Side note: When sizing them I didn't use JP wax, I ended up spraying a little Lemon Pledge and tumbled them when they were cooled down. Worked like a charm.

[Maximumbob54]

Evil - what lead alloy are you using? I think I went harder than I should with a Lyman #2 clone. I plan to use lead with enough tin to fill the mold next time.

[evil5826]

Evil - what lead alloy are you using? I think I went harder than I should with a Lyman #2 clone. I plan to use lead with enough tin to fill the mold next time.

Wheel weight ignots. Never did a hardness test.

[fastglock]

evil5826:

So Klass Kote is a 2K (2 part) epoxy?

How long is your oven cure time ?

Have you tried adding HBN powder?

I've got a few hundred rounds and 9mm and .40 PC(laquer thinner) ready to test at the range tomorrow. And I am hoping that the PC will work out because it seems to have a shorter oven time, cheaper,and less clean-up.


epoxy, however is less forgiving in adhesion and can make more sense.

[evil5826]

evil5826:

So Klass Kote is a 2K (2 part) epoxy?

How long is your oven cure time ?

Have you tried adding HBN powder?

I've got a few hundred rounds and 9mm and .40 PC(laquer thinner) ready to test at the range tomorrow. And I am hoping that the PC will work out because it seems to have a shorter oven time, cheaper,and less clean-up.


epoxy, however is less forgiving in adhesion and can make more sense.

Yep it has HBN powder in it. I would suggest watching Wiederlader's video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFxAPtx4c0

This is where I received the recipe. 2 parts paint to one part activator and 2.5cc scoop of HBN powder. 100 degree C (212 degrees F) for 25 mins.

[Maximumbob54]

I'm just not getting the epoxy coating. The Klass Kote is a one to one epoxy so that's what I'm doing. I've done this last two batches thinned with a bit of lacquer thinner and this batch has the HBN powder added. I baked each coating at 215 for 25 minutes.

I can scrape off the finish with my finger nail:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130803_245614_500_zps7c642508.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130803_245614_500_zps7c642508.jpg.html)

I'm going back to the powder coat testing as that has yielded better results for me so fat. It's not perfect but it's at least working better than this looks.

[evil5826]

I'm just not getting the epoxy coating. The Klass Kote is a one to one epoxy so that's what I'm doing. I've done this last two batches thinned with a bit of lacquer thinner and this batch has the HBN powder added. I baked each coating at 215 for 25 minutes.

I can scrape off the finish with my finger nail:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130803_245614_500_zps7c642508.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130803_245614_500_zps7c642508.jpg.html)

I'm going back to the powder coat testing as that has yielded better results for me so fat. It's not perfect but it's at least working better than this looks.

Try my way or per the video. 2 paint to 1 activator of course add the hbn powder. Remelt some of what you got and try a bakers dozen.

[Maximumbob54]

SUCCESS!!!!

The test mule this time was a Ruger GP100. Excuse the yet again poor pics of the bore. I can't get the focus just right on the bore as it either wants to go completely out of focus or try really hard to focus on the other end of the bore.

From this:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130803_104212_621_zps602ae71e.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130803_104212_621_zps602ae71e.jpg.html)

To this:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130803_110531_767_zps7eef1783.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130803_110531_767_zps7eef1783.jpg.html)

This was only after a dozen shots as I didn't feel like loading a bunch of what I thought for sure would be failures and have more lead or muck to clean up again. A wet cotton patch over a jag pulled out the usual black soot. Thirty minutes later I ran a dry patch through and after two passes I think this is the cleanest that bore has been since it was made. These were all 3.4gr of Bullseye under an NOE 358477 plain base boolit.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=194

I initially didn't like this bullet but have grown to like it. Being a HP mold it can be a pain to cast with but once it starts working it drops some very good bullets. Why I can scrape the finish off with my finger nail but it leaves no lead in the bore is a mystery that is beyond me. I sized them all to .358" and will be loading all of them for further range testing in bulk but for now I must swallow my words on powder coat being the early winner. Maybe the trick was indeed to switch to a softer alloy.

Granted this is a powder puff of a standard pressure .38 Special but still this is a step in the right direction. As there was no traditional grease/alox/wax based lube on the lead there was also next to no smoke produced by these loads. I'm going to load up all that I cast last night and shoot them in one sitting to ensure I don't end up with build up and then it's time for higher pressure magnum testing and testing in other calibers.

Once again.... TBC....

[evil5826]

What did u use powder or kk

[Skip62]

little tip for using lacquer thinner. It doesn't matter how much you use, I put enough in to cover the boolits, sprinkle the PC in, dump boolits in and shake, swirl, shake, swirl until the lacquer thinner turns clear, and shake just little more for good measure making sure the bullets are coated evenly. Then I pour off the lacquer thinner and dump the boolits onto the wire mesh. Let dry there, then separate. You can reuse the lacquer thinner you poured off. I use 2 buckets, and pour back and forth until my batch of bullets are coated. The trick is the right amount of powder for the number of bullets. With PBTP polyester TGIC, I use 1/2 tsp/100 150 grain boolits. I like the results and the last batch I did 600 bullets in 1hr 20min. I need a bigger oven.

[Maximumbob54]

What did u use powder or kk

All that typing and I forgot to say it was KK. http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Smiley/hitself_zps296b095f.gif (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Smiley/hitself_zps296b095f.gif.html)

[Lights]

KK has worked the best for me also. Thanks for sharing your test guy's.

[evil5826]

All that typing and I forgot to say it was KK. http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Smiley/hitself_zps296b095f.gif (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Smiley/hitself_zps296b095f.gif.html)

Good I'm glad. So far it's been the best choice for me. It beats the bb coating I bought that's gonna sit there for a while.

[fastglock]

little tip for using lacquer thinner. It doesn't matter how much you use, I put enough in to cover the boolits, sprinkle the PC in, dump boolits in and shake, swirl, shake, swirl until the lacquer thinner turns clear, and shake just little more for good measure making sure the bullets are coated evenly. Then I pour off the lacquer thinner and dump the boolits onto the wire mesh. Let dry there, then separate. You can reuse the lacquer thinner you poured off. I use 2 buckets, and pour back and forth until my batch of bullets are coated. The trick is the right amount of powder for the number of bullets. With PBTP polyester TGIC, I use 1/2 tsp/100 150 grain boolits. I like the results and the last batch I did 600 bullets in 1hr 20min. I need a bigger oven.


Nearly identical to my way and measurement .....

[Maximumbob54]

Another Klass Kote shoot this morning with over three hundred rounds expended around three guns: Ruger GP100, S&W M10-6 HB, and S&W M&P9c.

Bullseye was the powder used this time in all the loads. The revolvers were fed 158gr boolits from a Lee mold and the auto was fed 124gr boolits from another Lee mold. Two baked coats of KK with HBN in the second coating. I didn't bother this time with pics across the board but the M10 had the worst build up.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130804_120911_607_zps17007968.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130804_120911_607_zps17007968.jpg.html)

But with minimal cleaning with some Hoppes #9 soaked and then swabbed they all came out looking like the M&P barrel.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20130804_130121_852_zps1239b676.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20130804_130121_852_zps1239b676.jpg.html)

I'm still not ready to give up on the powder coat because it's so much easier to apply but I have to admit the Klass Kote is working even if it's more of a pain to apply, clean up, and the HBN isn't so cheap.

[prickett]

Have you tried without the HBN? Most (or at least some) of us are guessing its not necessary (based on PC and HI-TEK not needing an additional lube).

[evil5826]

Have you tried without the HBN? Most (or at least some) of us are guessing its not necessary (based on PC and HI-TEK not needing an additional lube).

Or use graphite. He is also still doing the 1 to 1 kk when I suggest 2 to 1 just like the video says to do.

[Lights]

I will say that I have not used HBN with my KK coated boolits and I have not had any problems in my 9mm. I just coated some of mine today using the 2:1 mixture with about 1 part lacquer thinner added and I think it may work better than 1:1 mix. Will know more later this week. When I get to the range.

[evil5826]

I will say that I have not used HBN with my KK coated boolits and I have not had any problems in my 9mm. I just coated some of mine today using the 2:1 mixture with about 1 part lacquer thinner added and I think it may work better than 1:1 mix. Will know more later this week. When I get to the range.

Why it's every one adding lacquer thinner?

[jmort]

From threads, lacquer thinner seems to work better than acetone with powder coating tumble Piglet method and it seems cutting the Klass Kote for 2-3 coats seems to work well as well.

[Lights]

To thin it out just a bit. it is just a reducer. Thin coats are better than thick coats.

[evil5826]

To thin it out just a bit. it is just a reducer. Thin coats are better than thick coats.

This is why he can scrape it off with his finger nail. Try with our it. 2:1 + hbn. Not trying to be pushy but it works.

[Maximumbob54]

So far, powder coat is the only coating he has not been able to scratch off with his finger nail. But he will try a 2:1 epoxy and thin that mix 1:1 this evening.

He also did more PBTP with a third coat last night that will be loaded up tonight with some WSF I think this time. Maybe Power Pistol. Maybe not.

[evil5826]

So far, powder coat is the only coating he has not been able to scratch off with his finger nail. But he will try a 2:1 epoxy and thin that mix 1:1 this evening.

He also did more PBTP with a third coat last night that will be loaded up tonight with some WSF I think this time. Maybe Power Pistol. Maybe not.

Before you thin it down, tumble a few just 2:1 with HBN and then tell me what you think. I say this cause no nail would take it off. My buddy had to use a knife and cut in.

[Maximumbob54]

I'm casting up some fresh right now to try this tonight. I just ran a batch of the cheap HF red through the oven with a lot less powder this time and they look soooooo much better with no warty bubbly cancer look to them. The biggest lure so far to powder coating is it's so much easier and seems to work just as well. And wow does this epoxy stuff stink. I'm doing this outside in front of a fan to blow the stink away and I still feel like I should be wearing scuba gear. As this is a vs. thread I will include the same pic I posted in the powder coat thread as well:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130805_175450_485_zps6b3f4c8c.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130805_175450_485_zps6b3f4c8c.jpg.html)

I think they look much better this time and will be running another coat and another baking tonight still.

[Maximumbob54]

I do NOT like the clear PBTP powder coat:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130806_203858_755_zps9575d264.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130806_203858_755_zps9575d264.jpg.html)

Ignoring the fact that I didn't use a new clean bucket so it picked up some of the residue of the red powder coat I've been using...

As soon as the thinner was added the white powder went clear. I couldn't see the paint at all. I added the boolits and shook them for a while and have no idea of the coverage on them. I guess I will do a second and maybe third coat just to be sure but I don't like this at all as it's impossible to tell if you have it on enough or if it's even. No likey. I may mix it in with the red and see what that does. Not sure.

[prickett]

As soon as the thinner was added the white powder went clear. I couldn't see the paint at all. I added the boolits and shook them for a while and have no idea of the coverage on them. I guess I will do a second and maybe third coat just to be sure but I don't like this at all as it's impossible to tell if you have it on enough or if it's even. No likey. I may mix it in with the red and see what that does. Not sure.

I wonder if a squirt of food coloring would work for visually seeing coverage

[Maximumbob54]

I loaded up the HF powder coated for testing this weekend:

4.7gr Win WSF
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130807_202318_657_zps316ad7dc.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130807_202318_657_zps316ad7dc.jpg.html)

And I finally tried the KK in a 2:1 with a 1:1 with thinner and no HBN for some low velocity Trail Boss .30-30 load tests later but I need to free up some brass first.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130807_202255_053_zpsd49eb432.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130807_202255_053_zpsd49eb432.jpg.html)

They coated very evenly but I always leave a mess in the bucket which makes the bucket non usable for the next batch. I've tried wiping it clean with some thinner on rags and that gets some of it but not enough. I either need to find a source of cheap paper buckets for one time use only or I'm going to stop making these. They may work but they are a mess to make. The PBTP is the cleanest and very easy to apply in several thin layers. The HF seems to be much more temperature unfriendly of the two powders and will clump as the thinner evaporates making a mess. However, if you can get the right amount of powder to bullets and not one drop too much thinner then one coat of HF powder looks like it coats pretty even and once baked feels plenty strong with nothing breaking down during sizing. If nothing else all this testing has been a fun diversion and I really think it may even find its way into my process for bulk plinking ammo. At best I'm still going to keep trying to tweak both the PBTP and HF to see if I can start counting how many boolits to add exactly how much of each powder to add and how much thinner to use. The low cost of the HF is really a lure to keep trying to get that one right but the PBTP isn't that much more so I will continue to try it as well. I may finally say the HF is too much of a bother compared to how easy the PBTP is as that is the current feeling but man is that HF powder cheap...

[evil5826]

Left over kk well peel off from the bucket. For the love of god try 2:1 kk with hbn minus thinner next batch. I'll be making 454 casull's soon with that exact mixture. Guarantee it works.

[Maximumbob54]

Left over kk well peel off from the bucket. For the love of god try 2:1 kk with hbn minus thinner next batch. I'll be making 454 casull's soon with that exact mixture. Guarantee it works.

I didn't see the "minus the thinner" part. I guess I can try that on the other half of that batch. I'm not doubting it works at all as the KK coating was the first one to really work at all. It's just the mess left behind. The paint in my bucket won't peel off at all.

[evil5826]

Your right, mine peeled of from the mixing cup not the bucket.

[why.kyle]

How important do you all feel the HBN is to the KK coating? Im confused on what its suppose to do if its mixed in the the epoxy.

[jmort]

The video shows use of 5 micron HBN for reduction of friction. His bullets size right down with little effort.

[Skip62]

How important do you all feel the HBN is to the KK coating? Im confused on what its suppose to do if its mixed in the the epoxy.

Doesn't do anything according to my chrono

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[Skip62]

Ok, I have been doing the powder coat, cuz I thought it was easier. I don't have any idea what the difference is, except the temp outside, but I decided to give it another try, and I was able to coat 500 boolits in about 15 minutes and they won't need a second coat and they look GREAT! ! ! I always thought they shot cleaner than the powder coat. Guess I'm switching back.

How many coats are you guys applying?

[jmort]

As recommended above, this video is really good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFxAPtx4c0
I'm going with two coats of Klass Kote 1:1:1 just like the video

[Maximumbob54]

With the HF I'm only doing one coat but the PBTP I'm doing two and sometimes three. With the KK I'm doing two coats.

[evil5826]

As recommended above, this video is really good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFxAPtx4c0
I'm going with two coats of Klass Kote 1:1:1 just like the video

Video states 2 paint, 1 hardner, 2.5 cc hbn. not 1:1:1. Thinner if needed depending on area but not a must.

[Skip62]

As recommended above, this video is really good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFxAPtx4c0
I'm going with two coats of Klass Kote 1:1:1 just like the video

Yeah, I saw that video the day he posted it and 2 days later was doing it. I tried the powder coat just to see if it might be easier, and at the time, I thought it was easier. I only tried it again today because I was having oven issues, and couldn't get the powder coat to cure 100%. Glad I did though. I found my mistake that coated them in 1 coat, I measured incorrectly. Worked though. I'm happy, happy, happy.

[Skip62]

With the HF I'm only doing one coat but the PBTP I'm doing two and sometimes three. With the KK I'm doing two coats.

Ok, that was always my past experience. Just not today.

[Skip62]

Video states 2 paint, 1 hardner, 2.5 cc hbn. not 1:1:1. Thinner if needed depending on area but not a must.

Video isn't using Klass Kote. And there isn't any reason to bother with hBN, in my opinion.

[jmort]

Video 1 catalyst 1 thinner 1 "Paint." As to the HBN I don't disagree. Yes he has Euro epoxy paint and we have Klass Kote or whatever. Otherwise, what he is doing makes sense.

[Lights]

I am doing two coats with the KK 2 parts paint, 1 part hardner and no HBN. I have had nothing but good results with this in all of my 9mm's and .45 acp barrels except for my Rock Island Armory factory barrel and that was due to barrel with lots of machining marks left in it.

[nighthunter]

Would powdered mica be a suitable replacement for the hbn? Mica is sold as a dry lubricant and is very very fine in size. I have a bunch of it because I dust my lubed bullets with it to keep them from sticking together in storage and the mica has never caused a malfunction in a firearm.

Nighthunter

[Maximumbob54]

You can try it but I would do a very small batch first. I tried dusting with graphite and found that to be a mistake. And I agree with Skip62, I quit adding the hbn and nothing changed.

[Skip62]

Would powdered mica be a suitable replacement for the hbn? Mica is sold as a dry lubricant and is very very fine in size. I have a bunch of it because I dust my lubed bullets with it to keep them from sticking together in storage and the mica has never caused a malfunction in a firearm.

Nighthunter

I've read that it's the same thing. The place I got mine from had powder mica in parentheses behind hBN in the description.

I have wondered if it was applied after the coating cured what the result would be. Long range rifle shooters use it on their I-word bullets for more consistent groups. I wonder if it would have the same effect on coated bullets.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[Skip62]

Would powdered mica be a suitable replacement for the hbn? Mica is sold as a dry lubricant and is very very fine in size. I have a bunch of it because I dust my lubed bullets with it to keep them from sticking together in storage and the mica has never caused a malfunction in a firearm.

Nighthunter

I've read that it's the same thing. The place I got mine from had powder mica in parentheses behind hBN in the description.

I have wondered if it was applied after the coating cured what the result would be. Long range rifle shooters use it on their I-word bullets for more consistent groups. I wonder if it would have the same effect on coated bullets.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[prickett]

Skip, now that you discovered your mistake with the Klass Kote, you seem happy with it. What is your preference order for coatings? (between KK, Piglet, and HT)

[Skip62]

Klass Kote...for now anyway....lol I don't have to bake it. The overall process is longer, but I'm not doing anything and I can do 800-1000 at time. I can speed it up with a heat gun if I need to. I think the barrel is cleaner with the Klass Kote, but that could be the tiny bit of carnauba I melt on. I need to shoot some PC with the carnauba to make sure, but I don't think I have any left, and I ain't make anymore any time soon, KK works fine for me. YMMV.

[prickett]

Klass Kote...for now anyway....lol I don't have to bake it. The overall process is longer, but I'm not doing anything and I can do 800-1000 at time. I can speed it up with a heat gun if I need to. I think the barrel is cleaner with the Klass Kote, but that could be the tiny bit of carnauba I melt on. I need to shoot some PC with the carnauba to make sure, but I don't think I have any left, and I ain't make anymore any time soon, KK works fine for me. YMMV.

I was hoping that was the answer! My oven just doesn't seem up to the task of giving consistent, adequate heat. So a no heating solution is great.

What is your process? I believe the Youtube video shows the guy baking his, though I've heard that baking is not required - it just speeds up the curing process.

[fastglock]

I've read that it's the same thing. The place I got mine from had powder mica in parentheses behind hBN in the description.

I have wondered if it was applied after the coating cured what the result would be. Long range rifle shooters use it on their I-word bullets for more consistent groups. I wonder if it would have the same effect on coated bullets.


I've done this both on PC sprayed and tumbled boolits. I find no benefits of any kind. It does make sizing harder to do (go figure). So I tried sizing first before the HBN, but it just makes loading at the press slippery. Looks like I got a pound to sell.

[evil5826]

Was thinking of taking hardware cloth and making a squarebox or a hex tube and then connecting it to a rotissary spit with motor. With a fan on it, it will dry and agitate without them sticking. Just an idea, any one else come up with something except a vibration table.

[Skip62]

I was hoping that was the answer! My oven just doesn't seem up to the task of giving consistent, adequate heat. So a no heating solution is great.

What is your process? I believe the Youtube video shows the guy baking his, though I've heard that baking is not required - it just speeds up the curing process.

My oven wasn't up to the task either, it would swing from 325° to 475°, not good. That's why I went back to KK.

Basically, 1 teaspoon of KK in the bottom of a 2 1/2 quart mixing tub, dump in 1050grains of bullets and shake and swirl till coated. I dump before they start getting sticky. Repeat 4-6 hours later, sometimes 24 hours, until I've got 3 coats on. I then pour 2 racks of bullets into a sauce pan and warm them up with the heat gun, then put a little carnauba wax on them and mix around. I think this step makes the barrel cleaner. If you look at the MSDS sheets for KK it says you can speed up the curing time by heating to 120°. I sometimes do this with a heat gun, takes about 5 minutes to heat 8-10 racks. Some swirl longer with good results, it's one of those things that you have to play with until you know what works for you. I'm going to try 1/2 teaspoon for the first coat next time, just curious.

Good luck.

[Skip62]

I've done this both on PC sprayed and tumbled boolits. I find no benefits of any kind. It does make sizing harder to do (go figure). So I tried sizing first before the HBN, but it just makes loading at the press slippery. Looks like I got a pound to sell.

Excellent, that just got crossed off my list.
Thanks

[prickett]

My oven wasn't up to the task either, it would swing from 325° to 475°, not good. That's why I went back to KK.

Basically, 1 teaspoon of KK in the bottom of a 2 1/2 quart mixing tub, dump in 1050grains of bullets and shake and swirl till coated. I dump before they start getting sticky. Repeat 4-6 hours later, sometimes 24 hours, until I've got 3 coats on. I then pour 2 racks of bullets into a sauce pan and warm them up with the heat gun, then put a little carnauba wax on them and mix around. I think this step makes the barrel cleaner. If you look at the MSDS sheets for KK it says you can speed up the curing time by heating to 120°. I sometimes do this with a heat gun, takes about 5 minutes to heat 8-10 racks. Some swirl longer with good results, it's one of those things that you have to play with until you know what works for you. I'm going to try 1/2 teaspoon for the first coat next time, just curious.

Good luck.

What ratio are you using for your KK? 2:1 or 1:1? Are you thinning at all? When you heat, how much cure time reduction do you get? Have you tried fewer coats than three?

I saw where you were out of carnauba. I tumbled my Piglet boolets with a small amount of JPW when I was having problems sizing them. That helped immensely with sizing, and might give you the same "clean barrel" as carnauba. I have a whole tub of the stuff now that I don't have to mix up LLA + JPW + MS anymore!

[Skip62]

Oops, I just tried 1/2 tsp/1050 grains of bullets, thinking I was cutting it down. I think I was always using 1/2 tsp, except the last time, which explains why I went through so much...lol 1/2 is more than enough. Next time I'll try 1/4 tsp.

I'm following KK's instructions for their product which is 1 paint, 1 hardner, and whatever is needed for reducer based on humidity and temp. When I first tried KK I was frustrated because I was constantly getting mixed results due to amount of reducer. It was late spring in Texas, now that it's 95° all the time, I use 1 reducer. The cooler it is, the less you need. I'm going to experiment with that too, but I just can't cast and shoot fast enough...what a great problem to have. I've giving a lot away, just to get more testing in.

I have gotten away with 2 coats, not sure what the difference has been. Now I just make sure I can't see lead and call it good.

Not out of carnauba, could have been a typo. It goes a long, long way. I have JPW here and have used it on PC bullets. I think I'll try the JPW on the next batch to compare, it's much easier to apply.

Thanks questioning me about that, I would have wasted more of the stuff.

[NineInchNails]

Was thinking of taking hardware cloth and making a squarebox or a hex tube and then connecting it to a rotissary spit with motor. With a fan on it, it will dry and agitate without them sticking. Just an idea, any one else come up with something except a vibration table.

Someone mentioned attaching a square plastic kitty litter bucket to a rotisserie motor. The square sides makes the boolits tumble. I thought that was smart.

That is a rig I wouldn't mind seeing. Might give people ideas. It sure got me thinking about ways to frame it up, easy on & off and stuff like that.

[Maximumbob54]

Just had what may or may not be a dumb idea for the Klass Kote. I'm sick of getting it all over the buckets. It doesn't peel off for me and it tends to flake off if I reuse the bucket. I bet I can get a bunch of small trash can liners and a small plastic trash can to fit them, add bullets, add KK, tumble, pour out bullets, pull out liner, trash liner, and bucket stays clean.

[Maximumbob54]

Klass Kote "Battleship Gray" with satin catalyst but looks like Haze Gray to this sailor:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130822_194000_513_zpsbbbb37de.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130822_194000_513_zpsbbbb37de.jpg.html)

[jmort]

Looks good to me, but I'm no sailor.

[Skip62]

Darn good looking bullets

[nighthunter]

Received my KK today and did up a couple small batches. I got the dark brown and the bullets come out looking like pieces of chocolate. A couple things I learned already that I haven't seen posted. If you are going to gas check them make sure the gas check is square to the base or the bullet will enter the sizer at a slight angle and cause shaving of the coating. I'm thinking a push through sizer might eliminate this. Also an out of round bullet will have the coating shaved. These are just a couple of things we can get away with when lubing in the traditional manner. Definitely going to be a learning game. I'm glad some of you learned some of this stuff first. Will get some loaded tomorrow and see what the results are.

Nighthunter

[shadowcaster]

Klass Kote "Battleship Gray" with satin catalyst but looks like Haze Gray to this sailor:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130822_194000_513_zpsbbbb37de.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130822_194000_513_zpsbbbb37de.jpg.html)

Looking good! :)

I was just wondering.. How did your KK rifle boolits perform? Did you give them a coat of JPW? How hard did you push them? Gas check or no gas check?

Shad

[Maximumbob54]

Looking good! :)

I was just wondering.. How did your KK rifle boolits perform? Did you give them a coat of JPW? How hard did you push them? Gas check or no gas check?

Shad

None of them are loaded with gas checks and I haven't done any JPW on anything. The .30-30 loads are a middle of the road 170gr Trail Boss listing in the Hodgdon load manual (I forget how much but it's a load I know to be accurate) and the 8mm Mauser loads are I think 16gr maybe of 2400. I don't have the load data in front of me but I want to start mild and see if they make it before I push them. Testing is this weekend... (I hope...)

I will add this. I quit using the thinner and went back to a 1:1 mix. I just tumble them in the KK in the bucket, pour them over regular wax paper to air dry tack finish to the touch, then pour them over the screen, bake them at around 200 for 15 minutes and re coat them one more time with another air dry then bake. Then I load them. Everything in standard pressure handgun has worked fine now. Light magnums and powder puff rifle testing is TBC but I will of course post results. TBC...

[Maximumbob54]

Received my KK today and did up a couple small batches. I got the dark brown and the bullets come out looking like pieces of chocolate. A couple things I learned already that I haven't seen posted. If you are going to gas check them make sure the gas check is square to the base or the bullet will enter the sizer at a slight angle and cause shaving of the coating. I'm thinking a push through sizer might eliminate this. Also an out of round bullet will have the coating shaved. These are just a couple of things we can get away with when lubing in the traditional manner. Definitely going to be a learning game. I'm glad some of you learned some of this stuff first. Will get some loaded tomorrow and see what the results are.

Nighthunter

You have to post pics of the chocolate boolits!!!!

[nighthunter]

225107 with and without GC, 311041 and Mihec's 430640 with and without GC. Probably hard to eat as the KK probably isn't digestable.

[prickett]

None of them are loaded with gas checks and I haven't done any JPW on anything. The .30-30 loads are a middle of the road 170gr Trail Boss listing in the Hodgdon load manual (I forget how much but it's a load I know to be accurate) and the 8mm Mauser loads are I think 16gr maybe of 2400. I don't have the load data in front of me but I want to start mild and see if they make it before I push them. Testing is this weekend... (I hope...)

I will add this. I quit using the thinner and went back to a 1:1 mix. I just tumble them in the KK in the bucket, pour them over regular wax paper to air dry tack finish to the touch, then pour them over the screen, bake them at around 200 for 15 minutes and re coat them one more time with another air dry then bake. Then I load them. Everything in standard pressure handgun has worked fine now. Light magnums and powder puff rifle testing is TBC but I will of course post results. TBC...

Bob,
Any reason you quit thinning?

[Skip62]

I will add this. I quit using the thinner and went back to a 1:1 mix. I just tumble them in the KK in the bucket, pour them over regular wax paper to air dry tack finish to the touch, then pour them over the screen, bake them at around 200 for 15 minutes and re coat them one more time with another air dry then bake. Then I load them. Everything in standard pressure handgun has worked fine now. Light magnums and powder puff rifle testing is TBC but I will of course post results. TBC...

how much KK are you using per number of bullets on each coat? And, like Prickett,why no thinner?

[Maximumbob54]

Nighthunter - Those are awesome!!!

Prickett - It just doesn't seem to be needed. They tumble nice and quick without it and it seems like less mess and no more tiny splatter splashes.

Skip62 - I try to add a minimal amount but I've added more if I'm not getting a full even but thin coat. I'm using tossed aside plastic spoons from the office plastic ware stash. Every time someone just needs a fork they open a kit and toss the rest into a bucket. We have a pile of spoons that hardly ever get used so I grabbed a few. I fill the oven tray with boolits but I've never counted them. I usually add half a spoon of A and then the same of B but again I've added as needed. And again, I've not found a need for the thinner. The very first batch I ever did of KK was without thinner and I started using it only because everyone said you need it. Now that I've stopped I don't see a reason to start up again. The coating may be a bit thick but it's all in making sure you don't add more than you need.

I've never done a smash test to see if the coating will flake off. So I smacked this one pretty good with a fifteen pound hammer:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130823_160537_947_zps6daed4e1.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130823_160537_947_zps6daed4e1.jpg.html)

After the third whack with the hammer I noticed the tiny tears in the coating now that it's about an eighth of an inch thick. I'm pretty sure it's a good sticky tight coating. :wink:

Now how about these apples....

http://youtu.be/dotsGdy8kjo

Yeah, that's a Hornady bullet feeder dropping epoxy coated cast boolits into the cases... I need to get some missing parts from Hornady for the Bullet feeder (they were missing from the box) and soon it will be a Hornady / Inline Fabrication Boolit feeding Ammo Factory...! :mrgreen:

[Skip62]

Thank you Sir. I just did the 2nd coat on 600 bullets without reducer, good enough results, maybe better. Thanks

[Maximumbob54]

Finally got to the range before the rain kicked in but still had to trudge through a swamp to reach the target stands.

The good news:

I shot both the 8x57 and .30-30 loads both of which were loaded to minimal recoil mouse fart type loads. Powders used were Trail Boss for the .30-30 and 2400 for the 8x57 both of which have been decent shooting loads in previous lubed lead testing with these powder charges. I let some Hoppes soak in the barrels and with a couple of patches I see zero leading and the bores are sparkly clean.

The bad news:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130824_101311_018_zps254b9443.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130824_101311_018_zps254b9443.jpg.html)

That's at 25 yards... :-(


When I first started with lubed lead I had the same results and had to work with alloy, powder choices, powder volume, and bullet sizing to get both of these loads dialed in before I started getting a respectable grouping at 25 yards and then stretch it out to 50 yards. I never did try the 100 yard range as I started to get all into the coatings to try. So I was really hoping to not start back at zero again for testing but it seems starting at zero is required. As these coated bullets are more similar to a plated bullet than a lubed lead bullet the first thing will be to stop sizing to larger than bore diameter and default back to bore diameter and start working up powder charges from the bottom again. So as usual...

TBC...

[nighthunter]

8036680367Range results .... Mihec's 359125 HP with 2 coats KK sized .358 and loaded over 3.8 gr WW231 in 9mm. Accuracy was more than acceptable at 25 yds. Had 100 rounds loaded and fired them all in my Beretta 92A1. No hint of leading or epoxy left in the barrel. Bore looks clean and shiny as if only a fw rounds of jacketed ammo was fired in it. I also loaded and shot Mihec's 430640 HP with 2 coats KK sized .430 over 16.5 gr 2400 in a Ruger SBH 5 1/2 inch barrel 44 Mag. 44's were loaded both with and without GC's on a GC design. Shot about 75 rounds through the 44 and again accuracy is better than acceptable. Surprisingly the un gas checked bullets grouped better than those with gas check. Recovered bullets (pic)8014580144 maintain the KK coating despite good expansion in a dry dirt berm. The un gas checked 44's show no sign of gas cutting through the coating. I like this coating a lot. I'm going to get some rifle rounds loaded up and will try them out in the next few days. I'll post the results.

[prickett]

So what is the prognosis with KK and getting chips from previous tumblings? One person posted that they were getting chips from the dried paint on their tumbling container when they tumble subsequent batches. Are others experiencing that too? What type of containers do you guys use (either successfully or unsuccessfully)?

[nighthunter]

Prickett ... If I reuse my containers too many times I do get chunks of previously hardened KK. I'm using plain paper cups so its not a big deal to toss them after 2 or 3 uses. I use 2 cups and dump the bullets and KK back and forth till evenly coated then dump them out onto 1/4 inch hardware cloth. Works well for me and can do a lot of bullets pretty quick as I measure the KK and catalyst into 3 or 4 cups at a time then do the bullets. I am going to try to find larger cups at the dollar store. These are just plain paper cups with no coating. Plastic might work as well as the paper.

Nighthunter

[Lights]

So what is the prognosis with KK and getting chips from previous tumblings? One person posted that they were getting chips from the dried paint on their tumbling container when they tumble subsequent batches. Are others experiencing that too? What type of containers do you guys use (either successfully or unsuccessfully)?

I am using the square Ziplock throw-a-way containers. I tumble them spread them on the wire and clean the container with lacquer thinner.

[nighthunter]

I want to mention this. I'm sizing my KK coated bullets in my old lyman 450 with a couple modifications. I remove the plunger from the sizing die and also remove the lower stop adjustment rod and screw and use the sizer as a push through sizer. I made a flat bottomed top punch with a 1 1/4 inch long nose and it pushes the bullets nose first through the die. I figured what the heck as I'm not applying lube and the parts can be reassembled to the sizer if I choose to size and lube in the traditional manner. I sized 450 bullets in 20 minutes doing it this way so I know it works. I put a cardboard box under the sizer to catch the bullets as they drop out the bottom.

Nighthunter

[Maximumbob54]

I want to mention this. I'm sizing my KK coated bullets in my old lyman 450 with a couple modifications. I remove the plunger from the sizing die and also remove the lower stop adjustment rod and screw and use the sizer as a push through sizer. I made a flat bottomed top punch with a 1 1/4 inch long nose and it pushes the bullets nose first through the die. I figured what the heck as I'm not applying lube and the parts can be reassembled to the sizer if I choose to size and lube in the traditional manner. I sized 450 bullets in 20 minutes doing it this way so I know it works. I put a cardboard box under the sizer to catch the bullets as they drop out the bottom.

Nighthunter

Now that is a pretty slick idea turning your Lyman 450 into a nose first sizer!!!

I have a press mounted upside down with a Lee sizing die in it. I'm just dropping them into the die with a cardboard box below to catch them.

[prickett]

I want to mention this. I'm sizing my KK coated bullets in my old lyman 450 with a couple modifications. I remove the plunger from the sizing die and also remove the lower stop adjustment rod and screw and use the sizer as a push through sizer. I made a flat bottomed top punch with a 1 1/4 inch long nose and it pushes the bullets nose first through the die. I figured what the heck as I'm not applying lube and the parts can be reassembled to the sizer if I choose to size and lube in the traditional manner. I sized 450 bullets in 20 minutes doing it this way so I know it works. I put a cardboard box under the sizer to catch the bullets as they drop out the bottom.

Nighthunter

Great idea! How about some pics?

[prickett]

Prickett ... If I reuse my containers too many times I do get chunks of previously hardened KK. I'm using plain paper cups so its not a big deal to toss them after 2 or 3 uses. I use 2 cups and dump the bullets and KK back and forth till evenly coated then dump them out onto 1/4 inch hardware cloth. Works well for me and can do a lot of bullets pretty quick as I measure the KK and catalyst into 3 or 4 cups at a time then do the bullets. I am going to try to find larger cups at the dollar store. These are just plain paper cups with no coating. Plastic might work as well as the paper.

Nighthunter

How many boolits can you do at a time? A cup wouldn't seem like it'd hold too many.

[nighthunter]

I've started using the 16 ounce plastic cups and they work pretty well. The epoxy does soften up the plastic after a while but the bullets are drying on the hardware cloth by then. A 16 ounce cup holds quite a few bullets depending on caliber.
I edited the photo links in post #119 for anyone that cares to see some of my recovered bullets.
I tried the black spray paint from auto zone that Azshooter wrote about. It didn't work for me. Sized down to lead. I think I'll stay with the KK. Some folks are thinking the spray stuff is cheaper but with the amount of paint and the amount of coatings applied I don't see it as cheaper. The extra coating and the extra cooking and time involved aren't worth it to me even if I could get it to work.

Nighthunter

[prickett]

As I ate lunch reading about what type of cup to use I glanced down at my sandwich and might have found the perfect one time tumbling container...

80392

[Shotgundrums]

I just love this site!! I started playing with epoxy (resin/hardener) as a coating a little less than a year ago and adding my own pigment and MOS2 as lube. It works great! Of course Using epoxy (paint) didn't dawn on me until wiederlader released his video...which took care of the pigment issues lol. But, I've been pushing 240gr in 44 mag and 158gr in 357 Mag a little over 1300 fps exhibiting no barre leading. I, too, use the klass kote paint and 1 part lacquer thinner. I use PTFE as lube. I haven't had the problem with paint chunks from the container though. Hmmm

[Skip62]

I had flakes when i first started doing this, I started to wipe out the KK with acetone, just enough to get the loose stuff as soon as I was done coating. Now I've got a layer in the bucket that just doesn't come off, and problems since. I'm using the Home Depot 2 1/2 quart paint mixing buckets.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[jmort]

Now you need to try the VHT. Cheapest and simplest method to date.

[Maximumbob54]

Now you need to try the VHT. Cheapest and simplest method to date.

What's the VHT???

[evil5826]

I assume this http://www.vhtpaint.com/ he still needs to provide more info though. From what I have been reading in other posts it chips very easily when placing bullet in case.

[evil5826]

Just found this in regards to VHT. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?210666-10-epoxy-coat-can-it-be-done-lets-find-out/page2
Gonna try tomorrow or sometime this week.

[prickett]

I'm giving KK a try and have Orange paint on the way (figured it'd be easiest to see if paint left in barrel). I've seen people using 2:1 and 1:1 for paint to hardener. I've also seen people thinning and not thinning. What are the recipes that work for you?

Also, what bake times and temp are you using?

[evil5826]

Same bake times and temp per Weiderlander's video. My first batch was 2:1 and it coated perfectly. Second batch I did 1:1 and it just didn't look the same but still worked... but haven't shot them yet so i am not sure about the leading on the 1:1.

[Skip62]

I'm giving KK a try and have Orange paint on the way (figured it'd be easiest to see if paint left in barrel). I've seen people using 2:1 and 1:1 for paint to hardener. I've also seen people thinning and not thinning. What are the recipes that work for you?

Also, what bake times and temp are you using?

I don't bake mine, KK's msds sheet says if you want to speed the cure time you can heat to 120°. I'm usually far enough ahead I don't need to bother. If I am in a hurry, I've used a heat gun to warm them.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[prickett]

Same bake times and temp per Weiderlander's video. My first batch was 2:1 and it coated perfectly. Second batch I did 1:1 and it just didn't look the same but still worked.

Just to clarify... Does 2:1 mean 1 pt Paint, 1 pt Hardener, 1 pt thinner? (1 pt paint + 1 pt hardener = 2 pts : 1 pt thinner)

[Maximumbob54]

KK doesn't work for me at all if I don't bake it. They didn't even survive sizing without baking. That was with a 2:1 and a 1:1 testing. I just find 1:1 to be less messy and works just as well.

[Skip62]

KK doesn't work for me at all if I don't bake it. They didn't even survive sizing without baking. That was with a 2:1 and a 1:1 testing. I just find 1:1 to be less messy and works just as well.

Curious, how long did you wait before sizing?
I usually put 3 coats on and I wait between 4 - 24 hours between coats. I don't size for a couple of days after the last coat. I stay quite far ahead in my casting so it doesn't matter to me to wait.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[evil5826]

Just to clarify... Does 2:1 mean 1 pt Paint, 1 pt Hardener, 1 pt thinner? (1 pt paint + 1 pt hardener = 2 pts : 1 pt thinner)

2 paint 1 hardener .5cc hbn.
No thinner!

[Maximumbob54]

Curious, how long did you wait before sizing?
I usually put 3 coats on and I wait between 4 - 24 hours between coats. I don't size for a couple of days after the last coat. I stay quite far ahead in my casting so it doesn't matter to me to wait.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

Usually at least a day or two if not more. I'm usually too pressed for time to do everything back to back.

[Skip62]

Usually at least a day or two if not more. I'm usually too pressed for time to do everything back to back.

Interesting that it doesn't work without baking.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[prickett]

2 paint 1 hardener .5cc hbn.
No thinner!

The Klass Kote web site says 1:1 ratio of paint to hardener. The 2:1 ratio (and hbn) came from the Youtube video that used a different type of epoxy paint. I'm surprised there is enough hardener in a 2:1 ratio for Klass Kote. I guess I'll have to try both to see which works best.

[jmort]

I want to try 1:1:1 hardener/paint/thinner and three thin coats and the VHT.

[evil5826]

The Klass Kote web site says 1:1 ratio of paint to hardener. The 2:1 ratio (and hbn) came from the Youtube video that used a different type of epoxy paint. I'm surprised there is enough hardener in a 2:1 ratio for Klass Kote. I guess I'll have to try both to see which works best.

Yep but i decided to go with the video mixture instead of what the site said. Im liking 2:1 better then 1:1 so far. I still need to shoot 1:1. VHT is the next batch ill make.

[prickett]

Yep but i decided to go with the video mixture instead of what the site said. Im liking 2:1 better then 1:1 so far. I still need to shoot 1:1. VHT is the next batch ill make.

Dr.Evil, just to be clear, you like the 2:1 better due to ease of application and/or smoothness of finish? It sounds like you haven't yet tried the 1:1 to see if either one is more durable than the other?

Sorry for all the questions, but just trying to get my ducks in a row before my paint shows up, so I can hit the ground running!

[evil5826]

Dr.Evil, just to be clear, you like the 2:1 better due to ease of application and/or smoothness of finish? It sounds like you haven't yet tried the 1:1 to see if either one is more durable than the other?

Sorry for all the questions, but just trying to get my ducks in a row before my paint shows up, so I can hit the ground running!

2:1 with hbn sized fine and looked good. Also it shot well. I find both 2:1 and 1:1 to both be messy since its wet paint. I have not shot 1:1 yet but it looks thinner. However with the 1:1 i used wax paper instead of it just being on hardware cloth. With the 2:1 i used just hardware cloth that a made into a basket. I tried wax paper on 1:1 cause i heard they don't stick to it when initial drying. Since they rolled around on the wax paper, some of the paint may of come off and which is why it looks like it got a thinner coating. Im thinking a basket made of hardware cloth screwed on top of a vibrating media tumbler will keep them from sticking together and wax paper wont' be needed. I need to test this out when i get my vibrating tumbler back.

Any no worries about asking all the questions. Thats what this place is for. I have learned allot from every here by asking questions.

[Maximumbob54]

Shot some more KK 1:1 boolits this morning:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130831_144225390_zps7646a507.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130831_144225390_zps7646a507.jpg.html)

These were 158gr pushed by 11.5gr of Accurate #9 for a nice mild magnum. Some nice full bore 2400 loads will be next. I suspect the results will be the same.

[prickett]

Shot some more KK 1:1 boolits this morning:

These were 158gr pushed by 11.5gr of Accurate #9 for a nice mild magnum. Some nice full bore 2400 loads will be next. I suspect the results will be the same.

Did the debris in the barrel come free with a simple pass of a patch? Was that just burnt carbon?

Have you tried 2:1 KK?

[Maximumbob54]

Did the debris in the barrel come free with a simple pass of a patch?

Yes.


Was that just burnt carbon?

I guess. Whatever it was, Hoppes cleaned it.


Have you tried 2:1 KK?

I didn't notice any improvement. All thinner did was make messy even more messy so I quite using that too.

[Skip62]

I didn't notice any improvement. All thinner did was make messy even more messy so I quite using that too.

Just an FYI, the thinner is intended for spraying KK. The amount, up to 1:1:1, is dependent on ambient temp, and humidity. The hotter it is, the more thinner, cuz it's evaporates off quickly when it's warm out. For our purposes, it may not be necessary, I think it would depend on technique.

[prickett]

Yes.



I guess. Whatever it was, Hoppes cleaned it.



I didn't notice any improvement. All thinner did was make messy even more messy so I quite using that too.

When I said 2:1 I meant 2 parts paint to 1 part hardener. Evil mentioned he prefers 2:1. Was wondering what your experience was.

[Maximumbob54]

Just an FYI, the thinner is intended for spraying KK. The amount, up to 1:1:1, is dependent on ambient temp, and humidity. The hotter it is, the more thinner, cuz it's evaporates off quickly when it's warm out. For our purposes, it may not be necessary, I think it would depend on technique.

Ah, I didn't realize that was for spraying. I assumed it was to be able to achieve the thinnest working coat possible so you don't goop it on too thick each time. Either way, I stopped thinning.


When I said 2:1 I meant 2 parts paint to 1 part hardener. Evil mentioned he prefers 2:1. Was wondering what your experience was.

I did mean two parts paint to one part catalyst. I think I've tried all the combos I can think of and 1:1 paint to catalyst works for me just fine. I have some 1:1 coated Lee 175gr sized at .323" loaded up with 32.5gr of IMR 3031 for testing if I can get a rain free day at the range.

Obligatory pic:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130901_182425160_zps4e54738d.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130901_182425160_zps4e54738d.jpg.html)

[Maximumbob54]

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130902_090251479_zpsd284d71f.jpg

I'm not having much luck with anything rifle. Handgun yes, rifle no.

[Maximumbob54]

I think unless someone else proves you can get coated rifle boolits to be accurate without gas checks then I'm going to call a halt to burning up components for now... I was going to load up some of the same with gas checks on them but that's the largest reason I wanted to do this. I can make at worst a fist sized group with that rifle and lubed and checked lead but NONE of my coated has worked so far.

[evil5826]

I think unless someone else proves you can get coated rifle boolits to be accurate without gas checks then I'm going to call a halt to burning up components for now... I was going to load up some of the same with gas checks on them but that's the largest reason I wanted to do this. I can make at worst a fist sized group with that rifle and lubed and checked lead but NONE of my coated has worked so far.
I would prefer to have checks on my coated lead cast rifle. I think its just smarter and safer. Have you tried any with them on?

[Maximumbob54]

I would prefer to have checks on my coated lead cast rifle. I think its just smarter and safer. Have you tried any with them on?

How is it "safer" with them on? I'm getting zero leading in the bore but I'm getting a foot wide pattern at twenty five yards. No I haven't tried any gas chekced as I wanted to avoid checks.

[prickett]

Tried Klass Kote for two batches. Both appear to be failures - and I haven't even shot them yet. Batch 1 used 1 : 1 : 1 paint/hardener/lacquer thinner. Applied 3 coats, cooking each 200F for 20 minutes. Batch 2 used 1 : 1 paint/hardener with no thinner. Applied 2 coats, cooking each 200F for 20 minutes. Sized both batches and quite a few sized down to the lead.

So far, I'm not feeling the love for KK. The paint is very thick and messy compared to PC or HT (as well as the first of the three treatments to size down to the lead).

BTW, I applied immediately after mixing. The instructions say "For the best possible results, be sure to allow the two mixed components to induct for 30-40 minutes after mixing but before thinning and application.". Do you guys wait 30-40 minutes after mixing to apply? I'd bet my paint was dry 30 minutes after mixing. Am I misreading/misunderstanding the instructions?

[popper]

MaxBob54 I get 1" @ 50 in 308, PC & GC. I tried plinker loads in 30-30, using the 308 Cb, 165 GC design with and W/O checks, using H-T green. Accuracy was the same, ~2" @ 50. Very close to RD PB accuracy with the same load and normal lube. Going to do some PC testing , same Cb, same load, double the antimony. If that is good, I'll cast some RD311 GC and try them, W & W/O GC. Best I can tell with any coating, the alloy must be up to the task.

[Balta]

@pricket

You MUST wait 30 to 40 min to components react/Induct...even better if you wait min 40 min...ad thinner AFTER induction time..Just follow the instructions!

[prickett]

Thanks for the info Balta. I'm trying a 3rd batch now.

Do you guys wait before cooking? i.e. Do you allow the paint to dry/cure first, or use the cooking to promote that?

[Lights]

Thanks for the info Balta. I'm trying a 3rd batch now.

Do you guys wait before cooking? i.e. Do you allow the paint to dry/cure first, or use the cooking to promote that?

Wait for them to dry before cooking. Heck you do not even need to cook them if you wait a week to load them. Give them a coat wait like 6hrs, give them a second coat and let them cure for a week.

[Balta]

Thanks for the info Balta. I'm trying a 3rd batch now.

Do you guys wait before cooking? i.e. Do you allow the paint to dry/cure first, or use the cooking to promote that?

I wait 20 to 40 minutes to dry ,and them puthem in the oven...Lethem dry just enough so i can take them with fingers and there ar not sticky..

[Maximumbob54]

My KK didn't work left out for a week air drying but as soon as I baked them they started to work. Now I allow them to air dry to touch and then bake them. I usually wait no more than an hour. After baking I let them set a few days and load them up. They have worked all the way up to .357 magnum so far.

[prickett]

My KK didn't work left out for a week air drying but as soon as I baked them they started to work. Now I allow them to air dry to touch and then bake them. I usually wait no more than an hour. After baking I let them set a few days and load them up. They have worked all the way up to .357 magnum so far.

What time and temp do you bake KK at?

[Maximumbob54]

What time and temp do you bake KK at?

200 for about 10-12 minutes. Any hotter or any longer and I see the epoxy start to scorch.

[prickett]

I have to say that KK is my least favorite of the three methods (KK, Piglet, HI-TEK). The paint is thick and messy when pouring from its container. I tend to lose almost as much as I use when pouring (due to the design of their container).

Tonight, I tried sizing a .45 coated w/KK and had to hammer it out of the sizer. That stuff is HARD. I ended up tumbling them in JPW, at which point they slid through the size w/o problem. But, part of this experiment was to get away from having sticky, waxy bullets.

I have yet to shoot any KK boolits, so I can't comment on that.

[Maximumbob54]

I have to say that KK is my least favorite of the three methods (KK, Piglet, HI-TEK). The paint is thick and messy when pouring from its container. I tend to lose almost as much as I use when pouring (due to the design of their container).

Tonight, I tried sizing a .45 coated w/KK and had to hammer it out of the sizer. That stuff is HARD. I ended up tumbling them in JPW, at which point they slid through the size w/o problem. But, part of this experiment was to get away from having sticky, waxy bullets.

I have yet to shoot any KK boolits, so I can't comment on that.

I use some cheap plastic spoons from the dollar store. They just fit inside and a spoon of each is usually enough for what the paint mixing bucket will hold.

But to be honest, now that I've bought the HF matte black and found it coats far more even than the gloss red I have used almost nothing but HF matte black in my latest batches. I was doing two thin black coats with one final thin gloss red but I'm just going to use the black for now.

I may go back to the KK though as I enjoy the nifty color selection.

[nighthunter]

I left the metal cap in place and punched 2 small holes, 1 in opposite sides, so I could pour a small stream of both A and B. Works pretty well with just a small amount of dribble accumulation. Just put the screw on top back on when done measuring.

Nighthunter

[prickett]

I did that with the part B, but unfortunately, when trying to do it with part A, the entire metal piece broke free and sank into the paint.

[Balta]

cheap plastic spoons works also for me..
82396

[prickett]

Cheap plastic spoons might just be the answer! I shot my KK coated boolets today and like everything but the mess when coating them. Disposable spoons might just fix that.

[Skip62]

I have to say that KK is my least favorite of the three methods (KK, Piglet, HI-TEK). The paint is thick and messy when pouring from its container. I tend to lose almost as much as I use when pouring (due to the design of their container).

Tonight, I tried sizing a .45 coated w/KK and had to hammer it out of the sizer. That stuff is HARD. I ended up tumbling them in JPW, at which point they slid through the size w/o problem. But, part of this experiment was to get away from having sticky, waxy bullets.

I have yet to shoot any KK boolits, so I can't comment on that.

I just give them a quick shot of Hornady OneShot and tumble them around. They slide right through the sizer, and it takes very little spray.

[Maximumbob54]

I'm really starting to settle for the HF matte black as my favorite coating. It's cheap, it's easy, it gives a good even coating as long as you don't add too much, and they don't tend to stick so bad once again as long as you don't add too much. And the cost of the HF powder and lacquer thinner is about as cheap as this coating business is going to get. The only slightly dificult part is judging just how much is enough.

This batch got just a bit too much for the first coat:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130922_212635971_zps40a43dc2.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130922_212635971_zps40a43dc2.jpg.html)

And this batch was just a bit too thin:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130908_152434579_zps91525f25.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130908_152434579_zps91525f25.jpg.html)

But too thin is still better than too much. In fact I would rather have to add a third thin coat than put up with uneven coated from too thick a coat. But still, it's like each time I do a small batch I feel like for the most part it gets easier to judge and there are fewer mess ups than before. The matte black doesn't leave a clean bucket from tumbling but it doesn't seem to add a messy layer the way the Klass Kote does. I have been tumbling in the same bucket with the matte black for a while now and there's no reason yet to use a new bucket. I may still use the KK just because I paid for it and it does work but man is that stuff a lot more of a mess than the matte black HF powder.

[prickett]

With regards to too little or too much, simply come up with a recipe for a fixed number of boolits (e.g. IIRC I use 1/2 tsp of HFPC + 3 tsp of thinner per 100 124 gn boolits - or 75 230 gn boolits). This amount is sufficient for two coats. Sometimes the first coat will be too thin. Sometimes it'll be too thick. But, the second coat (the remainder of the paint) will make up for the first coat (i.e. first coat is thin, second will be thicker, or vice versa).

[Maximumbob54]

The very last batch I did was about a hundredish as that seems to be the max I can easy get into the rack and not have them setting on each other. I used about a half a teaspoon and that was just right. But I only use just enough thinner to melt the powder and try not to use any more than that. Excess thinner seems to do nothing but flash off and make the melted powder goopy enough to clump. And if I just keep shaking them to try and spread it out all I end up with are boolits that are beat to death with edges being rounded off.

[Skip62]

When I was doing PC and LT, I didn't bother measuring the LT, just the PC, cuz the LT evaporates off, and it's not actually part of the coating. I believe I used 1/2 teaspoon of powder for 1050grams of bullets, didn't matter whether I did 9mm or .40. BTW, that's the same amount I use for KK. It will at least give you a good starting point.

[wrinkles]

Didn't read through all 9 pages so forgive me if this has been posted. I was doing some powder coat bullets using the piglet method and accidently ran into this. Here's the setup. 1 part HF powder coat to 4 parts mineral spirits. Tumble bullet to coat then stick in oven at 400 for 15 min. I then covered the bottom of the tumble can with the PC mixture and dropped the hot bullets straight from the oven into the can and tumbled. The mineral spirits smoked and instantly evaporated. The bullets got covered with the PC in a nice heavy coat that dried instantly into a paint like coat. I then baked again. Bullets are almost 100 percent covered in a thick coat. I'll post pics when I get home. Only issue is that the coat sticks to the mesh in the oven and comes off the bullets when removing them. I'll have to look into a way of getting them to not stick to the mesh.

[Maximumbob54]

You can't coat them thick and not have them stick to the mesh. You could try the non stick foil or parchment paper. I feel like the key to is is to do a thin coat. Yes this means you have to coat them twice but it's easy enough and they turn out much more even.

[Maximumbob54]

I went back to the Klass Kote for a small batch. I'm sending them away to someone else for testing to get a side by side. He's going to shoot some that are ES PC'ed, some that are tumble coated in HF red dry, and some that are KK'ed. The first thing I noticed when I was packing them is that while they all feel slick, the order of slick to the touch with fingers is tumbled HF red is slick being gloss, ES is perfect smooth, but KK almost makes them feel oil slicked. There is no residue but it's like trying to pick up a melting ice cube. Don't pinch them between your fingers too much or the squirt right out. I still worry a bit about the crimp being enough as I don't want any bullet setback but it's not happened yet. I set as firm of a taper crimp as I can on the auto ammo and roll crimp pretty firm on the revolver loads. I've asked for pics as payment for the bullets so I will post them when he sends them.

[BUFFALOW RED]

Does anybody seen how the bullet expands with this powder coat jacket ? like you shoot a deer with it how does it expand I'm assuming we're talking rifle bullet that's coated with the powder coat.

[BUFFALOW RED]

Does anybody seen how the bullet expands with this powder coat jacket ? like you shoot a deer with it how does it expand I'm assuming we're talking rifle bullet that's coated with the powder coat.

[BUFFALOW RED]

Wow guess I double tapped it