1911 grip screw bushing stripped [Archive]

MattOrgan

07-21-2013, 11:22 AM

This is a nasty problem particularly with the aluminum frames. The best option is to get the oversize tap and a set oversize bushings. The best source for these is a guy on eBay, his name is similar to "reddogalaska" if you need the info let me know and I'll dig up the actual name. This tap is kind of difficult to use, having 60 tpi if I remember correctly. It needs to be aligned exactly. Once you get it aligned, go through to the other side of the frame and get two holes at once. You only get one shot at this. Use a tapping fluid especially made for aluminum to avoid "pulling" the threads. Use a permanent type of loctite, staking does not seem to be effective with aluminum frames. I have a Colt LW Commander with bushings that pulled out. I discovered that two of the four bushings were already oversize. I cured this by cleaning the frame and bushings with acetone and then used JB Weld to "glue" the bushing in. It has held up for a couple years so far; but I'm sure I'll need a replacement frame at some point, luckily this gun is carried a lot , but fired infrequently. The ends of the bushing inside the frame will need to be carefully filed to provide clearance for magazines. Never over tighten the grip screws and I always use a dab of anti seize on grip screws for 1911 style frames.

Hope this helps.

MGySgt

07-21-2013, 03:24 PM

I tried the JB Weld yesterday and put it back together this morning - It may have worked on the upper hole but not the lower hole. I don't think there was enough JB Weld between the frame and the bushing.

This gun (Kimber) is a used gun I picked up a few months ago. These look like replacement bushings already (they don't match the left side - no Stake marks).

It is also for carry and not much shooting. I just bought a Ruger SR1911CMD for the heavy shooting part. I am sending it off tomorrow to have an Ambi Safety (I am left handed), Trigger to 3.5 - 3.75 pounds, set the over travel screw, Extractor tuned it throws cases all over the place.

The Kimber shoots good, and feels good, But I am weary of shooting it too much - you can already see where the first owner must have shot HP ammo and the feed ramp is a little battered and marked.

My practice ammo will be either the Lee 230 TC or the Clone of the RCBS 45-230-CM.

The Ruger shoots the RCBS clone real well, but the Kimber goes to slide lock - that fat nose is catching on the slide lock. I might try the Ruger Slide Lock pin just to see if that resolves the issue.

Replacing the Frame - if it can't be fixed? I believe I will try putting some cross cuts in the bushing holes and putting some flat spots on the bushings and this time instead of using JB Weld I am going to use AccuGlass from Brownells. I have had an unopened box of it on the shelf for a number of years. As long as it has not gone bad (evaporated) it should hold it.
Any thoughts on that resolution???

Skipper

07-21-2013, 10:33 PM

Red Loctite

MGySgt

07-21-2013, 10:49 PM

Red Loctite

Not if there isn't any threads left to hold it.

MtGun44

07-23-2013, 01:11 AM

It'd try red loctite, even if the threads are stripped. If not red, get some green
Loctite "Stud and Bearing Mount" and try it.

Bill

MGySgt

07-23-2013, 06:07 PM

Sorry folks been a little busy this last few days.

I received a PM about the size of the over size bushing and they won't work - because the bushings are already the over size type!

So - it is replace the frame (NOT) or 'glue' the bushings into the frame - guess what - I am going to glue them in. I am not real sure if I will use JB Weld or Accu Glass.

Going to be busy the rest of the week and I am going away this weekend for a reunion this weekend so it won't get done this weekend either!

I will let you know how it turns out.

Drew

Goatwhiskers

07-23-2013, 07:55 PM

I presume you're talking about AcraGlas Gel. If the white stuff appears to be dried out you can microwave the jar a little at a time till it softens back up--per Brownells tech staff. I've done it. GW

MGySgt

07-24-2013, 09:26 AM

Goatwiskers - that's the stuff! I just found it to verify. I have this unopened box for maybe 10 years. I just checked the release agent (shock the container and you can hear the liquid sloshing around inside) it should be good to go.

No release agent will be used as I don't want the bushings coming back out!!!!

I need to get some play dough to pack into the bushing so none of it creeps up into the threads.

Drew

MGySgt

07-26-2013, 09:18 AM

Well - the bottom hole is fixed.

Used a small round file to chamfer the bottom of the hole and then file some groves in the top and bottom of the hole at a 45 degree. Put a piece of Scotch tape across the bottom of the hole and packed a little play dough in the bottom of the busing and put a screw in it.

Pull out my Brownells glass bedding compound and went to mix up a small batch - no good - the resin is hard as a rock - never been opened before.

Pulled out the JB Weld and mixed up a small batch of it. Put a good amount in the hole with a tooth pic and around the threaded portion of the bushing.

Made sure the bushing was bottomed out properly and let it sit over night.

This morning I pulled the tape off and trimmed the bottom of the hole with a razor blade. Cleaned up some around the top (outside) of the bushing and tried the grip panel.

it is a little tight due to JB weld on the bushing but the panel goes on and bottoms out.

I don't believe that bushing is coming out anytime soon!!!!!

But the proof is in the shooting. That will have to wait until Tuesday or Wednesday - off to PA in a few hours and won't be back until late Monday.

Drew

MGySgt

07-30-2013, 07:43 PM

seagiant

07-30-2013, 10:21 PM

Well - Finally had time to shoot it. 2nd mag the top bushing was loose again. I did not file any grooves in that one. Finished doing that before dinner - I will mix up some more JB Weld and try again.

If this does not work I just might glue the grips on!!!!

Hi,
We all have different talents with different things. If it was mine I would silver solder the bushing on. It has to be CLEAN and bright but should be doable. Red loctite is also strong if the gap is minimal ie tight!

andrew375

07-31-2013, 06:32 AM

I had this same problem many years ago. Loctite Bearing fit worked perfectly.

gunoil

07-31-2013, 07:38 AM

brownell's app sucks compaired to midway's.

MGySgt

07-31-2013, 08:53 AM

brownell's app sucks compaired to midway's.

Please explain.

MGySgt

07-31-2013, 02:03 PM

Hi,
We all have different talents with different things. If it was mine I would silver solder the bushing on. It has to be CLEAN and bright but should be doable. Red loctite is also strong if the gap is minimal ie tight!

It has been awhile since I did any metal work (welding, etc..) but how do you silver solder aluminum alloy?

KCSO

07-31-2013, 03:11 PM

Option 3...

Turn over size oversize bushings. Had to do this a couple times. Any good machine shop sould be able to do it, all you will need is the Brownell's tap for the bushing screws.

MGySgt

07-31-2013, 03:40 PM

Sorry KCSO - It already has oversize bushing on that side.

Just cleaned up the JB Weld (had a bump on the inside where the tape let some squish out and had to file it off) and put it back together - panels seem to be tight. Haven't put any blue Loctite on the grip screws yet. I am going top wait until after I shoot it a few times to see if the bushing hold.

KCSO

08-06-2013, 05:26 PM

Sorry I was talking about custom turned bushings. I have had to make them in big bigger and biggest for some guns.

MGySgt

08-06-2013, 07:57 PM

Well - JB Weld doesn't hack it - 1 mag and both bushing popped out. Never know there was that much pressure/force on those bushing's during recoil.

Guess it is time to take it to a gunsmith and have them silver Soldered/brazed/tig welded.

It is either that or I glue the suckers on!!!!! (NOT)

I have one or two in mind. Have to make a call tomorrow.

MGySgt

08-15-2013, 10:06 PM

I haven't been around much to take this thing to a shop and get it Tig Welded. No time this week either, I leave for PA tomorrow for a memorial for my oldest brother on Saturday - would have been his birthday!

MBTcustom

08-17-2013, 10:02 AM

Why not silver solder the new bushings in place?

mroliver77

08-17-2013, 07:13 PM

MGySgt

08-18-2013, 04:52 PM

You must not be using the JB Weld properly. I have epoxied many different things and it should work and be very solid. You can also do as KCSO suggested and it would be better than new having more thread area. You could also bush it solid, drill and tap with stock threads.
J

The issue with the JB Weld is that there just isn't enough of it between the threads and the sides of the bushings and it comes apart in as little as 3 mags of 45 Auto.

I could do a lot of different things to it IF I had the equipment and the know how - I don't have the equipment or know how to rout it out, plug it and then put new bushings in. A lot of things I can do with my hand tools - but those are beyond my capability.

MGySgt

08-18-2013, 04:52 PM

Why not silver solder the new bushings in place?

If I had the equipment - yes I would.

MBTcustom

08-19-2013, 01:11 AM

Well, If you have a MAP gas torch, all your have to do is go to Lowes, or something and buy some brazing rod with the white flux around it. I believe that would do it.

KCSO

08-19-2013, 10:06 AM

HOw big ore the holes exactly? I can't believe that a turned oversize bushing wouldn't do the job. I've run them out pretty big and they worked fine.

MGySgt

08-19-2013, 12:18 PM

Well, If you have a MAP gas torch, all your have to do is go to Lowes, or something and buy some brazing rod with the white flux around it. I believe that would do it.

Braze Stainless steel to aluminum???? Didn't know you could - don't have MAP gas either. Would have to buy the whole kit.

you never seen me solder copper pipes either - can get ugly!

MGySgt

08-19-2013, 12:26 PM

HOw big ore the holes exactly? I can't believe that a turned oversize bushing wouldn't do the job. I've run them out pretty big and they worked fine.

Probably a set of custom bushings would work - but which would be more cost effective in a GS for the consumer?

Tig/braze/weld?
Custom bushing?

The purpose of the bushings is to hold the grip panels on. The only time the bushings would need to be removed/replaced would be to re-blue the frame - that ain't gonna happen it is aluminum. Go to a thinner set - Nope don't like them.

If it were not for the possibility that the grips just might have to be taken off in the future to get at the internal parts I would just glue them on and be done with it. But with my luck - something else would go wrong with it and I would need to take the grips off to strip the frame for some reason - Murphy's law!

BCgunworks

08-19-2013, 12:32 PM

It will prob be easiest to just tig up the holes and re drill and tap for a standard bushing.

MGySgt

08-19-2013, 12:49 PM

Why not just TIG the current bushings or blued steel ones into the frame Or are we dealing with different prosperities of the metal's?

BCgunworks

08-19-2013, 01:04 PM

Can't weld aluminum and steel together...well you can but its a highly special process that only places like shipyards and aircraft makers have avail.

I still think twin weld made and sold thru brownells will do it.

cwheel

08-19-2013, 02:11 PM

No, even with a tig welder, you aren't going to weld steel or stainless to a alum frame. No one has mentioned the required grip screw bushing staking tool yet. When making a 1911 frame, the inside of the frame gets a countersink taper to stake the inside of the bushing once installed with a special tool, not a big deal, Brownells has them, not expensive. Staking the inside of the bushing with the special tool prevents the problem to begin with. This has to be done with standard or oversized grip bushings. In the end you come back and clean off the excess metal inside for mag clearance. If you remove a properly installed grip screw bushing without removing the forged in taper, you will always destroy the threads, alum or steel frame. Might be to late for this one, might need the grip screw holes in the frame tig welded closed, re drill and tap back to the standard size. Just make sure to do the countersink inside the frame 30% of the frame thickness and use the proper staking tool this time. That frame can be saved, going to need a machinist or gunsmith to do it, make sure they have the proper taps and staking tool to start with.
Chris

BCgunworks

08-19-2013, 02:23 PM

Yup have the staking tool as well

MGySgt

08-19-2013, 02:24 PM

Chris - I knew about the staking of the Grip bushing. This is a used gun and I did not think to check the bushings for proper installation.

The grip panels became loose shooting it. I tightened the screws and the next think I know the bushings are spinning in the frame.

There were no threads left in the frame for the right side bushings - also you can tell they were not staked, I am sure you know that you can easily tell if the bushing was staked by the markings on the inside of it. The left set are staked in you can see the cuts left from the staking tool in the end of the bushings.

I thought no problem - use some JB Weld and 'glue' the bushings in. Doesn't work. When the JB Weld setup I tried to pull the bushings out - they didn't budge - but within 3 Mags they were both loose (the 'repair' had set up for over 48 hours, plenty of time for curing).

Who would have thunk there would be so much force on the Grip panel/bushing during recoil.

MGySgt

08-19-2013, 02:26 PM

I still think twin weld made and sold thru brownells will do it.

Twin Weld is not on their Web Site - just looked. Other adhesives.

BCgunworks

08-19-2013, 02:40 PM

Must be some old stuff I have then. Ill look when I get back to the shop. They have another 2 part epoxy like the old twin weld that should do it. If not this isn't rocket science to fix.

MGySgt

08-19-2013, 03:02 PM

No this is not rocket science - but you (and others) have skills and access to equipment that I do not. I have not 'welded' anything since high school and that was a LONG time ago.

BCgunworks

08-19-2013, 03:06 PM

Trust me I understand! I can't work on cars so I take them to a shop that does that

cwheel

08-19-2013, 07:09 PM

You are not going to do any sort of quality repair that lasts without welding closed the grip bushing holes in the frame (tig welding only) and drill, countersink the back ( a dremel tool is used to cut the countersink in the inside of the frame with a 1/4" rotary file for alum frame ) Depth of countersink is 30% of the frame thickness. Install the new grip screw bushing and follow the directions that come with the staking tool. Also handy to have the grip screw tap ( 1 for the grip screw, one for the bushing, total of 2 taps ) Using the same Dremel tool with a grinding wheel, grind off the extra part of the inside of the grip screw bushing until it is flush with the frame for mag clearance. Glue, epoxy will work up until the firearm gets a few mags through with any of these, and you will end up in the same place. Nice firearm you are talking about here, deserves to be fixed properly, you won't regret it. You are going to need a qualified gunsmith with a mill and the proper tools for this, should have a tig welder as well. Not a job for Buba. I make my own 1911 frames for the 1911's that I have build for myself, some experience in this area over the last 30 years machining frames. I'm sure you can find a proper shop near to you that can do this work. Don't expect this fix to be cheap, but with the proper repair it won't cost one quarter the cost of a new frame.
Chris

country gent

08-19-2013, 08:03 PM

One of the reasons glues arnt holding is your stripped hole dosnt allow for enough glue between the parts. I have studied this for work and glue film is mandatory for adhesives to work. Some are ,010 filmn, some more. We had an epoxy that hhad a .010 grit in it to maintain the bond thickness over large areas.The stripped hole is size for size or possibly a couple thousandths bigger is all. Personally I would have it welded by a good welder and re drill and tap it.

MGySgt

08-19-2013, 10:38 PM

Have already contacted a shop and talked to them (just under a 2 hour drive). I will be taking it to them on Sat. Actually it is another member here and we have been PM'ing one another almost since this thread started.

The bushing's on that side will need to be replaced as well - no big deal - I learned from the failed project.

MGySgt

08-25-2013, 08:21 PM

Dropped off the Kimber on Saturday - Today I was bored so I broke out my Ruger GSR. I think I may have another Leopold scope going south!

MGySgt

09-13-2013, 09:30 PM

Picked up the Kimber this evening from Bayside Custom Gunworks. I think Chris did an excellent job of welding up the holes and 'painting' the frame with cerakote, cost was reasonable.

Welded up frame and completed gun.

Safeshot

10-05-2018, 06:59 PM

Hello MGySgt,
I do not recommend using any loctite on the grip screws. I like to use: oil, grease, or antisieze compound on the grip screw threads. A very small rubber "0" ring under the head of each grip screw (snug fit on the threads) will keep them "snug" and keep the grip panels secure without causing any problems. Just one approach.

Wayne Smith

10-05-2018, 08:50 PM

I googled Bayside Custom Gunworks and got a place in Wyoming! I doubt that's two hours from you in Virginia! Can you give us a little more contact information?

MGySgt

10-06-2018, 12:06 AM

Safeshot - Chris made his own bushings out of bronse (SP) with a deep thread so they won't stip out. One mag and the bushing started to back out - had to use Blue LocTite to keep the bushing in. Shot many rounds through it since then and no problems. I did use rubber O rings on the grip screws to keep the panels in place.

MGySgt

10-06-2018, 12:09 AM

I googled Bayside Custom Gunworks and got a place in Wyoming! I doubt that's two hours from you in Virginia! Can you give us a little more contact information?

Since I had the work done (5 years ago) Chris has moved his busines out to Wyoming. I was suprised when I sent him an e-mail in January about some work I wanted him to do and found out he had left Matherly Va and moved out there. Why he moved, I don't know.

Drew

cas

10-09-2018, 10:49 AM

Do you really need them? :D

Years ago I did an amazing action job an a S&W 629, but when I put the grips on it went to hell. I realized the grip screw was just in the right/wrong place and when the main spring bowed, it hit the screw changing the action. So I left the screw out. Used clear silicone (the thinking man's duct tape) to hold the grips on. Been shooting it that way for about 20+ years now. If I need to take them off, I do and just glue them back on. lol

MGySgt

10-09-2018, 05:35 PM