Lyman GPR

[snoopy]

Ok, I've been bitten. A friend gave me a brass framed .44 when I bought his wife's beautiful 742 30/06 for 200.00! It, the .44, had been loaded for years and fired fine, a lot of FUN! Sooo now I'm looking for a rifle. Originally, I was actually looking for T/C Hawkin because I really like adjustable sights, and was actually leaning towards a .45 because of ball interchangeability [not sure if that is right though}. Anyway, I found a Lyman gpr at a local pawn shop in .54 for 199.00 and Iknow I can get it for less, decent looking gun as far as outside appearance. My question, what are some things that I should look for that would be a deal breaker? I know I should check the bore but not real sure how or just exactly what to look for. I dont want to make more than 1 trip back to check it out so I can keep my bargaining advantage. Am I correct in that I would need to shoot 2f in this gun? I really wanted to at least be able to shoot the same powder, so if I was carrying both, I wouldn't need 2 of everything.

[Junior1942]

Either buy it or post the location of the pawn shop :-)

[bubba.50]

after ya make sure it ain't loaded(it happens), check the bore for rust/pitting, sight down the sides of the barrel for any sign of bulgin', check the stock for cracks, & check to make sure the lock & triggers work. anything else ya can pretty much work around.

[Rick Hodges]

About the powder. My GPR in .54 loves 90 gr. of Goex FFF (yep 3f) pushing a patched round ball. That is my go to hunting load. I use 3f for all my traditional muzzle loaders, a 45, and two 54's. A long while ago Lyman published and article advocating the 3f as being cleaner burning, with better velocity and resulting in better accuracy in their tests. I tried it and liked it, been using it ever since.

[Pat I.]

I use 3F in my .50 GPR so you'll be fine with it. The rest is as Bubba said above.

[mooman76]

They make small enough flashlight to drop down the bore these days. Also I have heard of dropping a nickel plated casing down the bore so it reflects the light from a flashlight. If it's in good shape you have a deal there.

[rodwha]

+1 on the nickel plated case!

3F works fine.

You can get an adjustable sight from Lyman's.

[Fly]

That is a great rifle & a dam good deal.I would buy it in a hart beat for that price.

Fly

[snoopy]

The stock is in good shape, no splits or cracks,and the precursory look at the barrel exterior didn't have any red flags. Great on the powder, that was bothering me. Didn't check the trigger assembly, but didn't notice any obvious damage anywhere. Thanks for the tip about the casing,I'll go back in a week or so , and as my wife says, "squeeze a few quarters out of my a&& " and probably bring it home. I guess that means I have to get another mold too! Thanks for the input.

[bob208]

well to ease you mind a .44 cap and ball pistol uses a .451-457 ball. a .45 rifle uses a .440-.445 round ball. so you would still have to carry seperate balls for the rifle and pistol.

[45 Bravo]

Maglite sella a solitaire aaa mini mag lite that will drop down the bore perfectly.

Wally World and other places sell them, they go on a key chain

http://www.maglite.com/maglite_solitaire_led.asp

I carry one on my keychain just for such finds.

Good luck!

[Reaper]

I have two of them in .54 caliber. One flint. One percussion. A.535 ball with a .016 patch and 70 grains of Goex 2f gets it done. $199.00 is a great price. A new one is $495.00 from Midsouth. Extra barrels are about $235.00.

[ironhead7544]

Probably a good idea to run a patch down the bore. If it comes out rusty it may be a problem. The vast majority of muzzle loaders I have seen in shops have rusty bores from poor cleaning. Might still shoot OK but hard to tell. Seems the Maxi-Ball types still can work in a pitted bore but patched ball may not.

On the other hand, I have found 2 TC Renagade .54 rifles in pawnshops that were never fired, so good luck. If the barrel is good then that is a great price.

[Junior1942]

......I'll go back in a week or so , and as my wife says, "squeeze a few quarters out of my a&& " and probably bring it home. I suggest you go back tomorrow, Monday, and put some cash down and put it on layaway, if you can. That rifle won't be there in a week or so.

[Fly]

I suggest you go back tomorrow, Monday, and put some cash down and put it on layaway, if you can. That rifle won't be there in a week or so.

I agree 100% or you will be kicking your self in the a$$ for not doing so.

Fly

[snoopy]

Well ,patched round ball is definitely what I had in mind so I'll be sure an run a patch along with a visual. Thanks bob208 for the diameter info, I certainly wouldn't want to carry 2 different rb's that close in dia. When carrying two guns like this, how do you guys deal with the different powder charges? ie adjustable measure, pre made charges for the rifle, etc.

[snoopy]

Fly,Junior, I will be there.

[rodwha]

Initially I had intended on carrying reloading material for my .50 cal side lock, and .45 cal cap n ball by filling my small flask with 3F Triple 7 and carrying an adjustable measure along with my projectiles, which are .490" RBs for my rifle and either .457" RBs or bullets for my pistol.

But I have bought plastic speed loaders for my rifle, and have recently tried making paper cartridges for my pistol, which worked out quite well, though I plan on doing some more tweaking and testing. I've also considered plastic speed loaders for it as well.

I like the idea of speed loaders as it greatly reduces the amount of stuff needed to carry around. You can leave the flask and adjustable measure at camp if you feel it necessary to have.

[bob208]

well if you know some one that is diabetic. have them save the plastic tubes their test strips come in. you can premeasure you powder. then make a bullet block. it is a block of wood with a hole in it that a patched round ball for your rifle will fit in. i coulter bore the back a little so it will center over the muzzle. you pour in the powder from the tube then put the block over the bore punch the ball and patch into bore with short started. works good and fast just don't put ball in first. for the pistol you could make some paper cartrages.

[bigted]

buy buy buy !!! this is a great rifle and if the barrel has rifling that is in fair to good shape you can polish it with paperpatched boolits and you will be blown by how spiffy it comes out.

GPR's are a class act and everything about em is good. try the set trigger but it can be repaired as well.

[OverMax]

The bore light that a couple members commented on earlier is made by CVA. Many times I see them being auctioned/sold on EBay for a couple bucks. They come with 2-different colored light bulbs red & yellow. The best color used for bore checking is the yellow bulb one's. They sure are a handy thing to have on hand.

Buying a used B/P rifle doesn't require a whole lot of inspection as I see it. Overall appearance cracks in its stock & bore condition are the three main issues for me. The rest is a dice **** shoot. No doubt when you buy one you'll take it all apart and give it a good cleaning. Then you'll know for sure just what you have in hand concerning its (overall wear & tear)

O/M

[Lead Fred]

3f works great in anything under 50 cal.

For all you that waste black powder by putting too much in. Use the Davenport Formula ( I posted it here before)
It will show you how much you are wasting.

IE: My stand laod for my 45 cal is 55 gr. for longer shots I use 110 gr, which gained me 2033 fps over 1640 with 55gr.
After using the Davenport Formula, I found that any load over 74.5 grains was a waste, and at 75 grains I do 2033 fps.

As far as production guns go. (store boughts with brand names). They are all third world build and are inferior junk compared to
hand built with American parts.

Everything else is junk

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I bought a cva last year barrel looks ok , some small rust spots , i looked as well as i could with a flashlight form the muzzle , i didn't have one that would fit down a 45 . i rann the first patch with a full length cleaning rod and realized the previous owner shot it , and cleaned it but only had the ram rod it came with and never fully cleaned the last 1 1/2 inches of the barrel then it sat for a long time.

I scrubbed and scrubed that bore with a brass brush with chore boy wrapped around it , and the breech in a jar of eds red bore cleaner , , then switched to patches and rand thru a lot of patches , but it cleaned up decent .

when it sits for a while I run a penetrating oil patch every once in a while it will come back with a bit of rust color on it but you would never know from shooting it

before i shoot i run a few patches of friendship speed juice so that the fouling doesn't stick to the penetrating oil and make a mess

it shoots just fine and doesn't tear patches , so i must have smooth rust

I think that if an oiled patch runs easy and smooth you would be fine with a patched round ball load , I thought about trying to run patches of flitz metal polish or something like that but it shot just fine so i don't bother

but as a bargaining tool run a white patch with a little oil on it , if it hangs up or comes back rusty , low ball him big time.

I know my cva is junk by most standards , but it doesn't make it any less fun to shoot . especially if you can get them use on the cheap

[nicholst55]

Also, check to see that it has the slow-twist PRB barrel, and not the 1:32" twist barrel for conicals. Lyman sells both. I have both barrels for my .54 caplock; the fast-twist barrel shoots most any conical into a fist-size group at 100 yards with 80 grains of 3F. The slow-twist barrel likes the same load with a PRB. Very nice rifles.

You may find that you need a slightly longer adjustment screw for the double-set triggers to allow for the best trigger pull. It is a metric thread, but easy enough to retap for a standard #6 or #8 screw. Also, Track of the Wolf sells a Davis target trigger intended for T/C rifles that is interchangeable with the Lyman rifle. It gives a much superior trigger pull to the issue trigger.

My fast-twist barrel was prone to misfire for the first 100 rounds, or so. I took to tilting the rifle to the right and smacking it with the heel of my hand a few times right across from the drum and nipple to insure that powder was making it into the flash channel. It quit after a while, but be aware of the possibility. I installed a musket cap size nipple on that barrel, which seemed to help somewhat.

Also be aware that factory round balls and accessories for the .54 are difficult to find at most stores. You'll probably end up ordering from Track or Dixie Gun Works (or somewhere).

Emjoy your GPR! They're really nice guns.

[Pat I.]

As far as production guns go. (store boughts with brand names). They are all third world build and are inferior junk compared to
hand built with American parts.

Everything else is junk

I don't know if Italy or Spain would be very happy being called "Third World Countries". As far as a $500 dollar off the shelf rifle being comparable to a $1500 or more custom rifle.....probably not but I don't think I'd consider all foreign born rifles junk. There's a lot of Lyman, Pedersoli, CVA, and Traditions rifles out there being used by happy customers. I'm pretty happy with my two GPRs and my Pedersoli anyway. Even the Traditions inline I own does what it's supposed to do which is to put lead on or in the target.

[snoopy]

Just what I was thinkin Pat I., I sincerely thank everyone for their comments. I haven't got a chance to make it back to the shop yet. I just want a decent shooter to have some fun with, and I'LL BE CASTING MY OWN RB'S NOT BUYING THEM, CAUSE ITS MORE FUN!

[Pat I.]

If the rifle's still there and you buy it replace the nipple with a stainless one from Track of the Wolf and order a Davis replacement trigger for it. You'll love the gun.

[snoopy]

Well , I brought it home. Didn't get down to where my tight ... wanted to be, but a little and saved the sales tax, which is ludicrous on used stuff {but don't get me started}. Here it is. The trigger pull doesn't seem to change, even using the set trigger. Any suggestions, other than spending mula, or cleaning? What should the pull be with or w/o the set trigger, on average?77227772287722977230 Sorry about the pic quality.

[Pat I.]

I replaced the triggers on mine with R.E. Davis Deerslayer triggers but I've heard that the adjustment screw that's on the factory trigger is too short and getting a longer one makes it work. Nice looking rifle by the way. I think you'll be happy with it. I use a .495 ball, .018 thick ticking from Walmart lubed with a 1/6 mixture of water and Ballistol then dried, and 60 grs of 3F. Shoots pretty good and stretches the powder a little bit. You got a good deal on that thing.

[snoopy]

Well,the issue isn't so much the pull, 4lbs, as the travel, it seems much longer than what I'm used to. I haven't shot these guns before and don't know what to expect. I am pleased with the rifle and will shoot it tomorrow/ w/ bought ballnpatch. Had gunsmith measure the bore and it was pretty tight for a .54 according to him, no signs of rust or mistreatment, but I didn't question him on the trigger as he had others in the shop that were actual paying customers, haha. What kinds of groups are you getting at 100 yds? I was thinking about 60 grs of 3f as a starting point.

[snoopy]

And I do apologize, I had to reread some responses that had already answered some of my questions.

[samwithacolt]

I have the flintlock .50 GPR, absolutely love it! I shot a WT doe with it last year at 70 yds, with a patched RB. I will be buying a .495 mold for this season. Patched balls are fun, with a lot of stuff to learn about them. It took me about 3 yrs to get a good system and repeatable accuracy. I could go shoot a deer with my scoped .308, but anyone can do that!

[Fly]

Tell you what, you have one fine rifle there.I have been shooting these things since the 70,s.
As far as a over the counter rifle, I will put mine up to any other, baring customs.You did very well.

Fly

[samwithacolt]

I have the 57 GPR reciever sight, it's in a whole different class to the feeble buckhorn that came with it.

[bob208]

try .530 rb. with a .018 -.020 patch. if too tight try .015. the 60 gr. sounds like a good place to start. try a drop or 2 of oil on the triggers. mine work good. but then i don't like a real light trigger for offhand shooting. that load will put both pig and deer on the table.

you can get a lee mold and cast your own.

[Fly]

Snoopy where in NE Okla you live?I live on Lake Tenkiller.

Fly

[snoopy]

Well, went to my friend's place yesterday and shot. Only got to shoot a few times myself, everbody else wanted to try it, so didn't get a real good accuracy check, ran out of daylight. My offhand skills need some work though, gonna try some more today here at home. Thanks again to everyone for your responses. Fly, its a little town called westville, Howdy neighbor! Oh, and I did a little work with a file and am happy with the trigger now. I couldn't recover any patches, because they seemed to be smoldering by the time I found them. Was I doing something wrong? Anyway, the wife found almost a gallon ziplock bag of mixed rifle brass!, got to go through that today and see what's there.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

smoldering patches hmmm were the soaked thru when you took them out of your mouth to load them

or did you lube them with something that burns

i run 60 gr most of the time and have run more

since patches don't taste the best , i use 1/3 hydrogen peroxide , 1/3 rubbing alcohol , 1/3 Murphy oil soap and don't get any smoldering patches , i put it in a little spray bottle and give each patch a spray or to then squeeze the excess off and load
well that and i don't get cotton mouth

[waksupi]

You definitely need to change patch lube. You would be kicked off of any range here for smouldering patches. They do start fires, and can smoulder a long time before the fire takes off. We had a fire at Fawn Creek about three hours after the range closed a few years back. Fires do not endear you to neighbors or forest service.

[snoopy]

I was using bore butter and apparently a little too much, definitely don't want to start a fire, anywhere.

[waksupi]

Bore Butter is one that will definitely support smouldering. Not sure why, as it is just beeswax and olive oil. I guess olive oil is used in oil lamps, though.

[dondiego]

Beeswax is candle fuel.

[OverMax]

I use Ox Yoke Wonder lube at my club range. Store bought lube that I've never encountered smoldering patches with it's use. T/Cs Bore Butter I once used about a 1/2 tube of it when I first started out shooting B/P. Too messy especially so in warm weather and its wintergreen scent left behind on my fingers. Was just to much for my liking. {At that time their were no other scents of Bore Butter available.} Recently I've tried Ballistol as a patch lube. But it too no doubt has a unwelcome'd smell.

For hunting purposes. Because of the cold here I encounter during M/L deer season. I then use Track's >Trapper's Mink Oil /Tallow patch grease. Hardly any scent or smell does it have. Very pleasant or neutral smelling to my nose it seems like.

To this day I often wonder why the commercial lube manufactures load up their patch lubes with so much scent?

O/M

[Fly]

Mink oil I like the most for PRB.

Fly

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

To this day I often wonder why the commercial lube manufactures load up their patch lubes with so much scent?

O/M

my guess is to cover the smell of the oil going rancid after sitting a long time

[OverMax]

my guess is to cover the smell of the oil going rancid after sitting a long time If that indeed is the reason Pete. I'd sooner chance the rancidness over here in the Gopher State.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I made up a batch of 3 parts venison tallow , 1 part bees wax about 5 years ago i put it in a few small containers , i had one small tub of the mix go rancid sitting in a 90 degree office for a summer the ones kept in the basement are fine , it doesn't hurt the lube value or seem to but it doesn't smell so good.

it is easy enough to make and 3/4 the ingredients are free it is less expensive to make as the free part has a high melting temp so less wax is needed to get the right

my measurements weren't the most scientific , i took a small sauce pan , and put a cup of water in and made a make then another and marked and another and marked then the 4th and marked , i added and melted the tallow till i was at the 3rd mark then added wax till i was at the 4th I had guessed at that amount looking at bear and sheep tallow recipes figured i could always remelt and ad more of one or the other but it came out just right

[Junior1942]

I made up a batch of 3 parts venison tallow , 1 part bees wax about 5 years ago i put it in a few small containers , i had one small tub of the mix go rancid sitting in a 90 degree office for a summer the ones kept in the basement are fine , it doesn't hurt the lube value or seem to but it doesn't smell so good.Bacteria make the rancid and the smell. Loosen the cap and microwave about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes. Result = dead bacteria and like-new lube.

[snoopy]

I hate to keep stretching this thread out, but has anyone tried neutral shoe polish? Where do you get your beeswax? I agree that bore butter is very messy, but its what I had at the time. I'm hoping to do some more shooting this weekend, and try some different things. I will have a rest this time, so I can get some meaningful results.

[Rojelio]

Here's where I get mine.

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=77&products_id=235

[Fly]

Heath food stores sell it.I think Hobby Lobby also has it.You might call first.You can buy mink oil
at Wal Green, & Tandy leather.

Fly

[OverMax]

Nice hint there Junior1942. I'll have to keep that one in mind.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Bees wax , cause Cast boolits has all the answers http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?86774-Beeswax-for-sale/page9&highlight=randy+bees+wax


the other thing is any farmers market with a Honey guy or gal , you ask if they have bees wax also , most will say how much you want , i can have it at next market for you , they may say it has some honey bits in it , or they haven't cleaned it.

if they don't say sorry already have a buyer for all my wax then you wonder real quick who's honey they are reselling cause it isn't theirs. you don't get honey without wax

[snoopy]

Ok, thanks for all the help and tips. Wife picked up some beeswax at the denver fair. Got to shoot a little more last weekend, kept it in the rings at 100yds but thats about it. My eyesight is not what it used to be, might try 50 this weekend. Eased up on the bore butter and didn't notice any smoldering. I really like this rifle, got my calipers out and the .015 patches actually measure .010, so I've been measuring all the scrap rags and old clothes in the closet, wife thinks I've lost it.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

wife thinks I've lost it.


that's fairly normal they get past it

when we run out of dish soap mine will come borrow my Dawn for gun cleaning then buy me a new bottle next time she goes to the store , i haven't made it thru a bottle yet before she comes for it.

just watch your patch material , i ended up with pillow ticking curtains , and short on patch material

[Dean D.]

just watch your patch material , i ended up with pillow ticking curtains , and short on patch material

[smilie=l: I'm sure happy I don't have that problem. My wife shoots ML's too and knows better! ;)