Elk hunting

[Sergeant Earthworm]

A buddy drew an elk tag for the muzzleloader season here in Colorado but he doesn't own a muzzleloader and wants a recommendation on what he should buy. He wants a very utilitarian and reasonably priced rifle. Being a big fan of sidelocks I am kinda biased so I'm interested in what others would recommend. Please keep in mind that Colorado does not allow sabots or optics while hunting.

So, the questions are:

Which rifle?
Which caliber?
Which projectile?

Thanks.

[Gray Fox]

I would suggest either a Lyman Great Plains Rifle or the shorter Hunter model, either one in .54. The first is a slow twist 1 in 60 barrel made for round ball, and the other is a 1 in 48 twist that will shoot either round ball or a conical like the Lyman Great Plains Bullet or the TC Maxi Ball. Either rifle or projectile will work well for elk at distances of 100 yards or so. Depending upon how old your friend's eyes are he would probably benefit by having an aperture sight installed on whatever he eventually buys. GF

[fouronesix]

Gray Fox provided some good advise.
The hunt is not that far off if your friend is just now thinking about what to do. I'd suggest he get going sooner rather than later. There is a learning curve to MLs so range time is a premium. The other thing is about practical limitations- the hunt close, shot straight, shoot once idea.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Gray Fox provided some good advise.
The hunt is not that far off if your friend is just now thinking about what to do. I'd suggest he get going sooner rather than later. There is a learning curve to MLs so range time is a premium. The other thing is about practical limitations- the hunt close, shot straight, shoot once idea.

You are quite right on all counts. I have avoided saying much to him about the fact that the season starts in just over a month. He is active duty Air Force, we met at church when he was reassigned here about six months ago after back to back tours in Afghanistan. He wants to hunt so bad he can taste the tenderloin already. We're going to do some range time together and I'll be going out with him for a couple of days so he isn't out there alone.

[nagantguy]

Remember in Co no scopes sabots of pellet powder in muzzle loading season.

[bigted]

Lyman great plains rifle. Thompson hawkin/renegade. either is awfully good equipment. both/either should be in the previously mentioned 54 cal. whatever shooting iron should also be sighted with a above mentioned peep hunting sight. also im a big fan of a boolit that has mass to it when larger animules are concerned ... but im bettin that a 54 round ball will get er done if close enough as well.

he should shoot as many times between now and the hunt as is possible. this is doing the elk a big favor. are you going to be his backup? if so what combo are you packing?

[john hayslip]

The Plains rifle has that, to me, damnable hooked buttplate. I much prefer the Lyman Deerstalker which is basically the same rifle with a stock with less drop and a rubber buttpad. I have one in flint and a caplock and like them both. Mine are in 50 cal and wouldn't think of either being inadequate with either ball or bullet.

[Gray Fox]

Although I am fond of the .54s I have, I, too have a Lyman Deerstalker I picked up last year, a .50 flinter. Because of the learning curve I'd advise your friend to go with the cap lock. Mine shot a cloverleaf at 25 yards with my hand cast 370 grain Maxi Balls over 80 grains of KIK fffg with fewer than 10 shots out of a new rifle with the issue sights. I recently had a TC aperture sight installed on it and when I get time to sight it in I'm fairly certain that it will do under 2" at 50 yards with that load. I'm hoping to use this combo on hogs after the weather cools off this fall. This load should be potent medicine if your friend is presented with a double lung shot out to 100 yards or so. GF

[gkainz]

I've taken elk here in CO with TC Hawkins .50 ... but with that said, my shoulder appreciates my son's Cabela's Hawkin .50 with the butt pad way over that purdy brass hooked instrument of torture on my TC.

[waksupi]

I've taken elk here in CO with TC Hawkins .50 ... but with that said, my shoulder appreciates my son's Cabela's Hawkin .50 with the butt pad way over that purdy brass hooked instrument of torture on my TC.


That may be self inflicted pain. The crescent butt plates are meant to be placed just above the bicep on the arm, rather than mounted to the shoulder. When mounted properly, there is little noticeable recoil.

[gkainz]

Thanks for that tip ... that's most likely exactly the problem! :)

[Hellgate]

My go to elk rifle is an Enfield Musketoon. Short (good around vehicles), good shight, wide butt plate, and has a whallop. A two band or a Remington Zouave would be OK too but they are heavier, longer guns. The 58 cal allows the use of either PRB or minie. The elk I got with mine using 90grs powder and a 577611 minie dropped in her tracks and the minie went all the way through hitting both shoulder blades and spine. I would recommend whatever non 58 cal (i.e. .54) shoot a maxi ball well. You need penetration in case you hit bone. My 58s for deer/elk are sighted to hit 5" high @50 yds which puts them right on at 100. The military rifles have a shotgun style butt plate and are easier on the shoulder. When working up a load, put a sand bag between the shoulder & the gun so he doesn't develop a flinch. When he shoots at game he won't notice a thing.

[rodwha]

For the money it seems Lyman's are great rifles. I have their .50 cal Deerstalker, which has a more modern stock design with a recoil pad, and can work with patched round balls or conicals. I chose this rifle as I wanted something light enough to carry all weekend and that was somewhat compact (24" barrel/41.5" OAL). It also comes with fiber optic sights, though you can get traditional replacements.

.50 cal made sense to me in that stuff for that caliber is much more available. A .50 cal RB is good for just about anything in America, and if it's not quite enough a conical can fix that.

I've heard of people taking home elk with a .50 cal RB, but they kept the distance to 50 yds.

I'm still breaking mine in and haven't worked on accuracy loads yet. I often get groups as small as 1.5" at 50 yds using 70 grns of Pyrodex P/RS, a .490" RB, 0.015" patch, and grape seed oil. And I've learned that I'm in need of glasses. I'm sure with work and glasses it's likely I can shrink that group down.

As for conicals I haven't tried any yet, but Lyman's makes a .50 cal 370 grn Maxi just for this rifle/twist. Maybe a REAL would work. And then there are the Minies. I've also heard that the Hornady Great Plains conicals do well for some.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

while i like side locks , if he is more interested in hunting than having a traditional muzzle loader , he may want to look at a inline there are several good designs and some low budget guns that actually shoot quite well , the biggest complaint about modern inlines is they put junk sites on them figuring you will use a scope , look at whats available then what you can get replacement sights for , i like a peep rear with a blade front.

since he is likely buying components , 50 , because it has the best selection of components in the store

I would sure try a 385 gr hornady great planes conical hollow point hollow base , i have shot a few deer with them , i preferred the 410 gr flat nose hollow base but they stopped making it . wish i could get a mold for that one , I shot a deer with one end for end and it went about 3 feet of penitration thru spin and organs , i shot that one just above the base of the tail it traveled down the spine about 8 inches making bone fragments of it then down and thru the chest cavity and i found it with broken ribs all the way up on the deers front left side.
right on at 50 was 3 inches low at 100 with 90gr 777 from my 24 inch 1 in 28 twist barrel , My NEF huntsman shot them very well , i haven't tried them out of a slower twist but a 1:48 should work and are easy enough to find

black is getting hard to find and with time short i would just use 777 powder

i would suggest the traditions deer hunter on gun broker but i just bought it last week, but there area bunch of lyman deer stalkers out there right now

for sights http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/883/1 has a nice adjustable peep for the deer stalker , great plains and most of the Thompson's

[Boz330]

I guided ML hunts for elk in NM for 9 years and the rifle of choice by the outfitter was Gonic when they were available and Knight after that. If you are going with a 50 cal get a fast twist and use a conical. Even in a 54 I would stay with a conical. I had a 54 TC Renegade and with a Maxi Ball that thing could take anything in NA with a muzzle energy of 2000 foot pounds. A 50cal RB will most definitely take an elk at close range and ideal shot but that can't be depended on. Minimum RB I would go with is 58 and still keep the range close. A RB has the ballistic coefficient of a sheep turd and bleeds energy very rapidly.

Bob

[Boz330]

I hate to go on here trying to flog something but if your friend is interested I will sell this Euroarms Enfield 2 Band with a Tang vernier and drift-able front sight along with a 440gr REAL mold that shoots the best in it. Just PM if there is any interest.

Bob

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Well, utility won out so he bought a CVA Optima in .50 caliber. I gave him some of my 370 grain Maxi-Ball casts and he bought some 395 grain Great Plains Bullets to compare. We'll head out to the range and see how it goes. He's an experienced centerfire hunter, so provided he learns the rifle quickly he should be okay.