Bolt Bending Question

[Pirate69]

Looking at Brownell's specifications on their bolt bending block, it states that wide arc curved bolts should be cut and rewelded; not bent. Only straight bolts should be used with the bending blocks. Has anyone had any experiences with bending wide arc bolts with the bending blocks? Is cutting and rewelding the only option that i have?

[nekshot]

I tried every way I could think of how to bend, slim them by forging and some other ways and finally the only look I liked was to cut them off and either make a handle or buy one and weld it on. I simply could not get the look I wanted from a bent handle.
nekshot

[KCSO]

If you try and do a bent handle you need to straighten it first and then forge it in the blocks. IMHO you are much better off cutting off the handle and welding on something nice. The welding shouldn't cost much and you can get a much better looking bolt. I can't remember the last time I forged a bolt. In addition if yu are doing a M/N bolt you wil need to add some length to get a bolt that opens with reasonable force.

[Pirate69]

I was afraid there was little or no options other than cutting and re-welding. Does any of our members offer this service?

[1Shirt]

KCSO has done two of my Mosins! Great job, pretty, reasonable, and makes shooting a Mosin a lot more pleasant.
1Shirt

[aspangler]

For the MN's try the bolt on conversion handle but have it mig welded on instead of the screw and it does a really good job and looks good too.

[deltaenterprizes]

Straighten and then forge, that is how we did my 95 Mauser bolt

[Junior1942]

Check out my job on my MN Rainrifle's bolt: http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/rr2.htm

[Tazman1602]

The only problem I have ever had with forging bolts is:
1. HEAT -- you need heat stop paste, you have to heat fast and forge fast
2. Length -- a forged handle is going to be just a little shorter than you like

I've had great luck in forging bolts. You have to beat the **** out of them when in the blocks using heat stop paste, then you have to contour the bolt back a little and put a little forward on the knob.

I don't know how to explain it in writing though. It's a matter of experience. I had an old gunsmith teach me 20 years ago. Took him a total of *maybe* 10 minute from heat until forged and then came the finishing.

Art

[KCSO]

Junior, to someone who just hand forged a spoon handle and spent 3 hours filing and polishing it you conversion is beyond words. I am amazed !

[Junior1942]

Junior, to someone who just hand forged a spoon handle and spent 3 hours filing and polishing it you conversion is beyond words. I am amazed !Beautiful, huh? ;-) Eye of the beholder and all that?? The beauty is in the function--perfect.

[roberto mervicini]

Personally I find easier to cut off the bolt handle and replaced with a handle of my choice, I feel it make cleaner/like factory finish. Here some replacement I did with commercial bolt handles on my Brazilian mauser, Arisaka and Siamese Mauser.
I set them up in the jig and a shop near by perform the welding, then I clean shape and polish.
76538765397654076541

[nekshot]

junior, the first time saw that picture and now again it simply cracks me up! Nothing like simplicity. Is that part of the new look we can expect to see from mossberg? Practical or tactical!

Roberto, you simply cannot get that look from a military bolt. I used to weld my bolts with torch and one day I decided to get my neighbor who has a welding shop to mig one and I never used a torch again. Very nice looking action\bolts.

[roberto mervicini]

The following are cut off and re-welded on at proper angle using the same cut off bolt stub , finally shaped and polish.
6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, 6.5x54 Eaton Carcano, 8x64 Mauser and .300 Win.Mag.

[roberto mervicini]

Thanks Nekshot, .... definitely mig is the way to go, I put the heat shank in, set up the parts on the jig, put the heat paste on and the shop next to my house take few minute to weld one on.

[1Shirt]

Am always amazed at Junior's redneck gunsmithing! His rain rifle mosin is true redneck, and bet Jeff Foxworthy would be proud to own one just like it!
1Shirt!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here is what I do:

The first pics are of my M96. I used the larger knob because the rifle is cock on closing and to operate it fast you need the extra surface area of the big knob. I can also change it to a 1" round knob if necessary by just unscrewing it.

I start by putting a 5/16-18 thread on a piece of 1/2" steel rod. Then I undercut the area behind the threads to the diameter I want the bolt handle to taper to.

Then I spin it up against a grinder to shape it.

Once it is close you grind an angle onto the shank that approximates the angle you want the bolt handle and then you tack weld it onto the old bolt handle stub. I TIG weld it, since this produces the best quality weld you can do. I have also gas welded them along time ago but you have to be careful to not overheat the bolt itself and ruin the heat treating. TIG welding is very localized. You've got to be quick about this and know exactly what you want to do and then execute it promptly.

Once you have it welded you go about filing and buffing it into submission. I have had to go back and add a little weld here and there a few times. The point is it should look nearly factory when you're done,,,, NO matter how many attempts it takes!

I usually grind a big curved flat on the top of the handle for esthetics, and buff an polish it with a scotch bright wheel until it looks good to me.

This is a fun project I am going to do my Springfield 03A3 with a solid bolt handle soon.

Randy

[roberto mervicini]

Thanks for sharing your technique W.R. Buchanan, I like the look of your finish handle a lot, I will try it on my next rifle.
Where do you source the big knob??

[nanuk]

nice work there Mr. Buchanan

that big knob would be just the thing for cold weather hunting.

[Junior1942]

nice work there Mr. Buchanan

that big knob would be just the thing for cold weather hunting.Yep. It's also a beautiful job.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The knob came from McMaster-Carr. about $3. They have a bunch of different styles. This one is actually the same as comes on a Lagun Mill's quill lever. It fills your palm well.

That rifle is being made into a target gun for National Match, the big knob is so I can run the bolt faster. The Swedes have a striker fall of about 1" and they cock on closing so you have to have some leverage to run the bolt fast enough for the rapid fire strings.

it would also work with gloved hands.

Pretty easy to do, but it is imperative that you get a good weld all the way around the base of the handle so that it doesn't break off. This is why you use TIG. Penetration is never an issue.

Randy

[MBTcustom]

I just finished welding a Mauser bolt with a right angle handle. It's easy to do.
Hack it of at the correct angle, grind a lot of relief in there, watch the welding video I posted: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?193331-Oxygen-acetylene-welding-video, read the instructions in Roy F. Dunlap's gunsmithing book, wrap the lugs with a wet towel, and get after it. Takes about thirty minutes to cut it, weld it, and file it down (use a file you don't mind replacing! Those bolts have lots of carbon sometimes and they absolutely rape a file).
About another hour to file the notch in the action and polish the bolt to a mirror finish.
No problemo.

One thing you really really should buy is the heat sink from brownells. $20 well spent, and it will only take one warped bolt body to convince you not to skimp on that little piece of equipment LOL!

[John Taylor]

A ball turning trick. http://johntaylormachine.com/typo3temp/pics/4e3db32350.jpg
I have forged more than a few but I prefer welding a new handle on. I use a tig torch and 4130 rod.

[MBTcustom]

That's cheating John! LOL!
Man I wish I could afford one of those indexing heads! Turns out there's just so much you can do with a rotary table.

[nanuk]

Yep. It's also a beautiful job.

You got that right!!!

[nanuk]

A ball turning trick. http://johntaylormachine.com/typo3temp/pics/4e3db32350.jpg
I have forged more than a few but I prefer welding a new handle on. I use a tig torch and 4130 rod.

John, do both units turn during operation? or one at a time?

[MBTcustom]

John, do both units turn during operation? or one at a time?

If I may: What John is doing is using a boring head with the tool turned around backwards in order to cut an OD instead of an ID (I use the same trick to turn the knob into a threaded shank) and the rotary head is set at an angle and turned as the tool is cutting.
Unless I miss my guess, he probably raises the head tool, sets it to cut another .020 or so, and then lowers it onto the bolt as it is being spun in the rotary table.
Probably has a stop set so that it never bites the shank of the bolt.
Pretty cleaver.

That's a Criterion isn't it John? I think I have the same one. Excellent tool!

[John Taylor]

John, do both units turn during operation? or one at a time?

Yes, the mill is running in reverse and just crank the handle. Set up is the hardest part. Angle does not seem to matter to much but you want the ball centered.

[John Taylor]

If I may: What John is doing is using a boring head with the tool turned around backwards in order to cut an OD instead of an ID (I use the same trick to turn the knob into a threaded shank) and the rotary head is set at an angle and turned as the tool is cutting.
Unless I miss my guess, he probably raises the head tool, sets it to cut another .020 or so, and then lowers it onto the bolt as it is being spun in the rotary table.
Probably has a stop set so that it never bites the shank of the bolt.
Pretty cleaver.

That's a Criterion isn't it John? I think I have the same one. Excellent tool!

Both the indexer and boring bar are from Enco many years ago, don't know the brand. You got the operation down but I don't worry about a stop, you can see where it's cutting.

[lmcollins]

And remember: You can make the bolt shank a bit EXTRA long to give yourself more leverage, and scope clearance when you make your own bolt handles.

Oh, to have all of the tools I wish I had just to play with when I get an idea!

[quasi]

Junior, your bolt handle job is the funniest thing I have seen for a long time! Thank you for making my day. You better patent it before Holland and Holland does.

[MBTcustom]

Here's the one I just finished, fresh out of the bluing tanks. This was cut and welded.
Ordinarily I would polish and jewel the bolt, but this one had rust pitting that was too deep to get a good finish on without making it a total rattletrap, so into the tanks it went:
77640

[Junior1942]

Junior, your bolt handle job is the funniest thing I have seen for a long time! Thank you for making my day. You better patent it before Holland and Holland does.Thanks :-)

[Uncle Grinch]

Many years ago there was a local gunsmith who did several of my earlier Mauser bolts. He cut the curved ones off and turned them over and rewelded them. They were short, but functional.