Lyman Confusion

[Jammersix]

I was studying my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook today, and started looking at boolits for my .38 Super. Of course, Lyman lists 9mm boolits for .38 Super loads. And one of them is Lyman 356242. Which comes in 90 gr or 120 gr.

The "bullet number" that Lyman assigns is not, therefore, unique to a bullet. (Those two bullets bear little resemblance to each other beyond caliber.) Genius.

I don't see the point of a "bullet number" if it doesn't identify a unique bullet. All they've (Lyman) done is create confusion.

[44Vaquero]

Page 117 "358242" it is noted in the mould reference table by an * Bullet offered in more then one weight. Lyman has made a lot of different moulds in several different weights over the years.

If you think this is confusing, I strongly suggest you never get interested in collecting Lyman 310 tools!

[Jammersix]

I have the 4th edition, and the page numbers must be different. I think if I take this plunge, I'll go with one of the mould makers here.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Yeah, Lyman is kind of quirky, no doubt about that. Machine screw thread sizes on their equipment seems eradic to me. But since they've been making boolit making equipment for over a hundred years, I suspect there have been lots of engineers and experts that have had differing opinions on how things are designed and manufactured as well as the documentation.

[44Vaquero]

Yup, mine is the 3rd edition. Generally they add to the book, so you should be able to locate the "mould reference table".

[J..]

Lyman has offered multiple-weight bullets in the past and, usually, bullets that varied simply by addition/omission of additional grease grooves were not given their own numbers. For example, many of the multiple-weight bullets available in the Perfection line of moulds had only one number assigned to them but could be had in regular mould blocks in any of those weights. Other examples would be some of the Kephart and Herrick bullets which were also available in more than one weight but were never assigned their own number. A more common example would be the #358430 bullet which pops up in 150 grain from time to time rather than its normal 200~ gr. version.

Usually on a bullet that was available in multiple weights there was a 'standard weight' version of that bullet and most of the moulds found without special markings will be of that weight. If the mould was offered in a weight that wasnt standard it was usually (but not always) marked as such.

76483

In this example, its a 115 gr. version of a bullet that was normally available in two different weights...115 and 105 gr.

76484

This example is two of the same bullet (#323060) but both bullets being a different weight. In this particular case the mould does not list the two different weights, however you can see that, design-wise, the bullets are identical...the only real difference being length.


On the other hand, some bullets received their own number even though their only difference was a hollowpoint. While Ideal/Lyman would offer almost any bullet as a hollowpoint for only an additional couple bucks, they were seldom given their own numbers...yet #358439, for example, was simply a hollowpoint version of #358429...but it rated it's own number. I suspect that it was an issue of popularity...rather than have people special ordering the Keith bullet in an HP, they simply made a hollowpoint version as a standard mould to keep things simple.

It does appear confusing that one design of bullet, offered in several weights or styles, shouldn't have a different number for each variation but thats the way they did it. Modern Bond was a little more reasonable about it with their numbering system based on bullet length and a letter designation.

As an aside, Ideal used to be very flexible about providing a customer what they wanted...if you do come up with a mould that is a 'non-standard' weight of a particular bullet, the usually tend to be more collectible and worth more than a standard version of that bullet.

[MT Chambers]

You'll have to cut the old Lyman outfit some slack, the numbering system they use, is the same numbers we use all the time to ref. bullets made by all mold makers, so we all kinda know them eg. 429421, 311284, 311041, etc. how else would we know what bullet people are talking about??

[44Vaquero]

J, Thanks for the historical background. It's always interesting to hear the back story.

[Jammersix]

You'll have to cut the old Lyman outfit some slack, the numbering system they use, is the same numbers we use all the time to ref. bullets made by all mold makers, so we all kinda know them eg. 429421, 311284, 311041, etc. how else would we know what bullet people are talking about??
That's exactly my point.

If you call a multi-weight bullet by it's Lyman number, you don't know which bullet you're talking about.

[Miata Mike]

This might or might not explain my 230 grain small bottom band version of a Lyman 452424 mold I got this Spring. Very much a let down when I finally gave it a good look over. Midway lists the mold as 255 grain with no mention of other bullet profiles.

[MT Gianni]

When referring to the 358430 it is always common practice to call it the 150 gr or the 195 gr.

[runfiverun]

the 454424 you have was probably milled down.
I have done this to a few of my molds.

[Miata Mike]

You would have thought that, but they mold looked like new and the guy I bought it from said it was not milled down. Mine was a 452424, He has a second one lust like it that sounds like it has identical dimensions.


the 454424 you have was probably milled down.
I have done this to a few of my molds.