Cure for common bullet formtaion flaws!

[BT Sniper]

Should have posted this a while ago. Now that many of you are getting into more advanced rifle caliber bullets there are some common flaws that may lead to blemishes on your formed bullets. Of course we all want our bullets to look better then factory and if our bullets look good we assume they will shoot good. If we have the mind set that they will be accurate that may be all that matters when it comes to the group on paper. Any sort of blemish on the formed bullet certainly can not help the accuracy.

Here is another thought....... any one or combination of these flaws might lead to bullets failing to make it to the target...... ie. 22 cal bullets made from 22lr brass...... :idea:

So here is three common flaws that I know of

1. Lube dimples formed in the tip of the bullet.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/005_zpsfaf84554.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/005_zpsfaf84554.jpg.html)

Easy enough to explain. You are simply using too much lube or there is an excess amount of lube built up in your die or both. Solution.... use less lube, clean the jacket of all excess lube after core seating then try just reapplying to only the lower half of the bullet before point forming. These dimples are more common the thinner your jacket is (22lr), They also show up easily at the point where the lead core stops inside the jacket if you are forming open/hollow point tips.

With dimples like this you may also have your die adjusted too far down in the press in that you may actually be compressing the jacket slightly. More likely just too much lube.




2. Folded tips
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/007_zps908a427e.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/007_zps908a427e.jpg.html)

Another easy one to explain.... This happens mostly from a jacket that is too hard ie. not annealed enough. It can also happen from trying to form your bullet to quickly. Solution...... anneal your jackets at a higher temp or longer time and/or find the tempo and "feel" for the speed to work the press that works best in point formation.

Another common occurrence of folded tips, atleast when making 22 cal from 22lr brass, has do with the brand of brass you are using. If your dies are set up for brand X and a federal case slips in with the bunch quite often that odd ball case will fold on you.



3. Excessive or over annealed
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/008_zps7614b065.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/008_zps7614b065.jpg.html)

Not as much of a problem but still will affect bullet formation and cosmetic appearance. When the jacket is too soft it will not allow you to form the tip of the bullet as well or completely as easily as a properly annealed or commercial jacket. Solution.... don't cook your brass so long. As it so happens these over cooked 30 cal bullets happened to shoot very well for me in my 300WM but it is still something to watch for.

As you can imagine there are many factors that go into making perfect and consistent bullets that not only shoot good but look good too. When using scrap brass and other various jackets other then expensive commercial brands we have to expect some challenges but with a bit of practice and proper technique you all should be making perfect bullets in no time.

I hope this will help you guys to identify potential flaws and quickly correct them. If any others have some more info to offer please feel free.

Good shooting and swage on!

Brian

[BT Sniper]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/028_zps8310d4ef.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/028_zps8310d4ef.jpg.html)

Figured I should put a pic of some sexy bullets in this thread :) to show what is possible when it all comes together as it should.

[BT Sniper]

Forgot to mention.... years ago I received a box of Hornady 140 grain SST .264 bullets with majority of them with a folded tip under the ballistic tip! You would think they would have caught that! Guess it happens to the best of them.

[Bonz]

So Brian, what is the best process for annealing brass. 700 f. for 30 minutes, mapp gas torch until it glows red, etc. ? Is there a sticky somewhere that has the expert process spelled out for the NTS (new to swaging) people like myself ?

[BT Sniper]

Annealing sticky :)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103824-Annealing-Jackets

Typically to anneal brass we need to reach at least 800 degrees as I understand it. There are several ways of doing this and much depends on what brass you are using.

A kiln would probably be the best but I have used everything from BBQ grill, camp fire, torch, self cleaning oven, and empty lead pot.

I like the self clean oven for 22lr brass but I have to do it while family is not home and on a windy day. Haven't been able to do it yet without setting off the smoke alarms. :)

BT

[Nickle]

Good info. This ought to be a sticky. Lots of troubleshooting info here, that gets right to the cause, and explains a cure.

[williamwaco]

Thanks for that!

[Cane_man]

here's one you may not get, the 'sparkly' part of the ogive is to due the die not being polished enough :)

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac331/johnelway/224-v4004_zps520cfd0a.jpg

[BT Sniper]

Thanks guys. I figured this should help a little.

The "sparkly look" looks a lot like brass that may have been cooked to long or to hot in the anneal step. Think it has something to do with cooking out a portion of the zink? At least that is what it looks like IMO. Been doing nice work there Cane Man, keep at it. A lot of stressful time I spent on the steep learning curve figuring out how to make a good die/point form die specifically. I tried it all with moderate success with my own reamers, in the end, for production, I had to have expensive professional carbide reamers made.


One thing to add with the lube dimples..... Every new die off my assembly line I start with excess lube. It is always better to start with too much then not enough. Start with excess amount then work your way down till lube dimples no longer appear, then you have the perfect amount of lube IMO. You will know when you haven't applied enough too, sticky extraction or the unfortunate stuck bullet.

and still one more thing about lube dimples or faint vertical lines formed during bullet formation..... a quick tumble in the ceramic media solution I mentioned before will do wonders to clean up those lines.

BT

[kd185]

from the eyes of an expert!
great thread Brian
thanks

[customcutter]

AHA! So someone does make reamers. [smilie=b:

CC

[Cane_man]

^^^ LOL, i am sure someone got a pm about those reamers!

a few things that have helped me so far when point forming .224:

1) preheating the point forming die - i put small piece of screen on top of the toaster and put the die on top and let it set there for a few cycles, the die seems to do better when it is warmed up

2) pre lube the die - get a qtip and swab the inside of the die with lube before you put the first case in to it

3) go really slow - you can't bang these .224 cases out like you can with the .40SW, i mean go really slow like pushing the case up into the point forming die mm by mm once it hits the ogive, and then let it chill there for a few moments after the press has cammed over

4) right amount of lube on the tip - you gotta experiment with this one, not enough lube and you get folds, too much and you get dimples...

5) learned this the hard way but i now realize it is standard practice, but the ejection punch has to be out of the way from the tip while it is being formed, if the punch is inside the case it will cause the meplat to flair... i know that is the way it is supposed to be done but my swaging dies didn't come with any instructions :lol:

[supe47]

Try reducing your lube on the ogive portion of your bullet when point forming to reduce "sparklies". Worked for me.

[jimbull34]

One thing that I have found out the hard way, is the tool steel makes a GREAT deal of difference in the polishing of the tip of the bullets. If you are making your own dies, use A-10 graph air tool steel. It has graphite in it and after heat treating the graphite comes to the surface and the dies release the bullet much much easier then in other steels such as O-1 or A2. I got this from the man who mentored Corbin in the 1930's. He wrote a paper on how to make dies and after trying several different steels, I tried his suggestion on the graph air. All I can say is "what a difference". Word of caution here, its not the easiest of steels to turn and mill. another suggestion is to use pure lanolin instead of all the lubes people come up with. Never had a crease mark one using it...its cheap too!

[jimbull34]

Brian, What size ejector punch do you use on your 223?

[BT Sniper]

.06 is my standard ejection punch size in the 22 point form die

BT

[monmouth]

bad bullet answer tag.
Brian, your finished product is just awesome!

[NLS1]

BT it is just amazing the quality of your work! I never knew it could be so easy to make jacketed bullets, but your product looks like it does just that.

Dan