casting gone down hill--pitted bullets

[gray wolf]

:confused: I have had this happen a few time before. But before I could get to it or it became a problem it just went away.
I cast up some 45 acp yesterday--I used Range lead that had been cleaned and cast into nice S W C. They were a little hard so I recast them with a little pure from clean sheet lead. I stated to make them into 230 grain R N. All was going great I cast about 600. At about the 450 mark I started to get bad pitting in the noses of the bullets. Many little pock marks and little holes, like the mold had sand in it ER sum in. The spots looked like porosity, that is to say they were negative not standing out. Like the bullet was put in sand before it got hard---like dirt in the lead.
It was time to quit anyway so I stopped and drained the pot, a 10# lee bottom pour. Yes it was a little dirty. I brushed the pot out and cleaned the spigot the best I could with a piece of wire. Then I melted some lead and ran it through the pot. I left it empty and clean.
Today I heated up the old well cast S W C again and added a little clean pure again. Well this time the problem was worse then yesterday. Every 3 or for bullets were pitted. I used Old bullet lube for flux.
Let me add that the way I was working is the same as I have been doing forever. I have used this metal before and mixed the same lead before.

WHY AM I GETTING PITTED BULLETS??? VERY FRUSTRATING :confused:
Like I said I started out fine then it whet down hill.
The mold is a new mold and cast 400 good bullets before this started.
Sprue plate and top of mold was lubed with a little bullet lube. Same as I always do. Mold was cleaned with tooth brush and dish soap like I always do.
The mold is not pitted if it were the little pits would stand out. these are in.
Like I said like the bullet was dropped in fine sand before it cooled.
There are some little flecks of dirt here and there.

I need the Calvary on this one

GW.

[Hi-Standard]

gray wolf sounds like impurities in the melt. Try fluxing with wax toilet gasket that's what I use. And flux often as well. Also wash your mold out in case there is grease or dirt in it as well.

[38-55]

Gray wolf,
I've had that happen with range lead alot.... Try to fluxing a couple of times with marvelux flux or something like that.. It's just needs to fluxed til all the crap is out of it...
Stay sane
Calvin
PS casting is sorta where science meets art.... Some days I just have to set the mould down and walk away FWIW

[Dale53]

It is always a bit of a crap shoot to diagnose long distance. However, I believe your explanation tells all - you have dirty metal. You might try a different fluxing technique. It would be a good time to try the "sawdust" trick. See if that doesn't solve it for you. You have very little to lose, sawdust is readily available most places (make your own or get it from a local lumber yard).

Or, use another method (I mostly use commercial flux but have successfully used paraffin, candlewax, etc). Stirring it deeply with a stick will help a bunch (several of the more experienced casters here use a stick for flux, deeply stirring it in the pot until it partially burns away (adding carbon to the mix which reportedly fluxes quite well). Again, certainly worth trying.

Good luck!
Dale53

[gray wolf]

Dirt ----- Well that was my thought also. in the pot? in the lead? I would think it should float
to the top after fluxing. I guess I need to work on my fluxing and stirring.
Thing is I have not changed my habits, so this had me stumped.
Thanks for the help.

[montana_charlie]

Sprue plate and top of mold was lubed with a little bullet lube.
How do you normally keep that crud out of the cavity?
CM

[arkypete]

I keep a box of Q-tips in the loading shed. I cut off the fuzzy part and use the card board stick to polish the cavity and clean out the vent lines. Wooden kitchen matchs serve this purpose real well.
Lube your sprue plate and top of the mold with graphite.
Jim

[gray wolf]

I am not sure but it sounds like you guy's are thinking that it is some lube that got into the cavity's. I try to be very careful when I use it. Seems to be only in the bullet nose.
If it is dirt in the pot from the metal would it not be embedded in the bullet?
If it is lube how come it is not in every bullet and it seems to be on one side of the nose,
it does not go all the way around.
I guess I have to give the mold a good cleaning.

[crabo]

If you make your first cast, knock the sprue off and then lube your sprueplate, you won't get lube in the cavities. I also wipe any excess lube of with a clean Q tip. (tip from Bullshop) Use his lube also, you won't regret it.

[Dale53]

Bullshop's Sprue Plate lube is worlds ahead of anything else that I have tried.

Dale53

[Bullshop]

Gray Wolf
This is a tough one but could be simple too. Sometimes when you lube the sprue plate there may be a bit of excess lube that runs into the pouring bevel on the top of the plate. The next pour after lubing the plate may carry some of the lube with it as it passes through the bevel and falls to the bottom or nose part of the cavity. There after for some time depending on what the lube was each pour will produce gas bubbles as the hot alloy contacts the contaminated area. Often times the gas will be trapped quickly as the alloy hardens and cause a condition as you describe as negative recesses in the casting. If this is the case for you the solution would be to give the mold a thorough cleaning. This may not be your problem but I have seen this very thing many times caused in this way.
Blessings on ya!
BIC/BS

[Ricochet]

That's exactly what I was thinking, that the mould cavity has gotten contaminated with some sort of oil that's volatilizing at casting heat. Been there, done that.

[gray wolf]

Well I think Bullshop nailed it and we have a lot of other suggestions that were on it also.
I got up today and cleaned the mold with dish soap and then alcohol.
After that I got a Q-tip and wrapped 0000 steel wool on it and cleaned and rubbed with acetone.
Then dish soap and the tooth brush again. Had some coffee and looked at the mold with a half love half hate look. You know the look --- it's the one when your eyes close a little and your lips form the word bitch. The pot took about 1/2 hour and there was that little curl of smoke coming from it as I dropped the first piece of bees wax in. Picked up the chop stix and gave a gentle swirl to the pot. The pre cast #68 S W C that gave them selves to the pot were half range lead and half pure. These were going to be 230 grain L R N and I didn't want them to hard. I know a 9mm can get bigger but a 45 ain't gettin know smaller.
Still I wanted a bullet that would expand as it came to rest in it's target.
When I was happy that the pot was fluxed and stirred enough, I reached over and picked
up the mold from it's perch on the hot plate. My hand shook a little as I centered hole #1
under the spout of the Lee bottom pour. I gently lifted the handle and the molten silver
stream filled the cavity and left a little button. On to the second hole lift pour and another little sprue.
As the wooden mallet swung and made contact with the sprue plate the advise to not drop the bullets and lube the plate now echoed in my head.
With my 2" long Q-tip and a little lube I gently lubed the sprue pate and opened the mold.
With my head bent down I could see 2 silver 230 grain L R N 45's looking up at me.
As I rolled the bullets around on there little towel mattress I could clearly see that there
were no
FREAKING PITTS It worked.
About 400 bullets down the road I was still a happy guy. The mold was clean and casting like a champ. I cleaned up-- put my stuff away, looked at the sky and smiled.

Thanks guy's for all the help.

P/S You all were so much help I thought you deserved a little drama and a good story.

GW.

[45nut]

Awesome tale , I enjoyed it. Glad it all worked out for ya!

[Bullshop]

Praise God!!!
BIC/BS

[454PB]

This is the main reason I quit lubing my Lee moulds.

[Dale53]

INHO Lee moulds NEED Lube. However, until Bullshop's Sprue Plate lube was made available, I never was satisfied with any of the lubes I tried. I absolutely would not be without Bullshop's lube for this critical work. It makes things SO much easier.

Just go easy with it, it doesn't take much (follow his directions).

Dale53

[montana_charlie]

I like to believe the moral of this story is...
Beeswax (and other things) might be great lubes...for bullets.
But bullet lube becomes 'crud' when it gets hot enough to smoke.

There is no surface on a bullet mould that will benefit from a layer of 'crud'.
CM

[charger 1]

[QUOTE=gray wolf;230788

Sprue plate and top of mold was lubed with a little bullet lube.
GW.[/QUOTE]

STOP RIGHT THERE
Thats what I do to, and 99 times out of a 100 the world is right then the 100th time unknowingly I put a hair more in a place where it can fume up into the boolit. If you have pitting its very unlikely in your mix. More likely on your mold