What have I learned? 22lr -> 224

[plus1hdcp]

I have an IOU to Brian to report some of my lessons learned both for my continued learning through our discussions and to share with those who will be receiving their die sets in the future. I ask those reading to add some of their lessons learned and tips for all of us newbies.

1 - this is flat out fun and addicting
2 - an adjustable fishing lure box is a great way to store punches and sample bullets
3 - have plenty of prepped brass
4 - Along with #3, have plenty of cores
5 - I had swaged a number of cores prior to receiving my dies in preparation, but all at the same weight. Given the chance to do it over, I would still have prepped a number of cores but would have done so in a manner to vary the core weight by .2 grains in an effort for me to increase my testing as to which weight produces the best fill out and final bullet weight for myself.
6 - Expect to field many questions from your shooting friends.
7 - I now keep a baggie with a sample from each stage of the process to better explain the process.
8 - Notice I said a sample, meaning one for visual purposes only, not to hand out.
9 - I continue to be surprised by my results and look forward to increasing my number of rounds downrange and decreasing my group size.
10 - I look forward to continue my education on this forum and offer my thanks to all who have added to the discussion on this forum which has helped us all.

[BT Sniper]

Good shooting and swage on!

I agree on all accounts.

Some of the most fun is seeing the looks on the face of those that you show these hand made bullets too as well as the satisfaction knowing that "you" made them and can make as many as you like. Of course a good group on paper or fun in the PD fields is hard to beat too.

Thank you for your patience in allowing me to get these dies to you.

I am continuing my persuit to make more accurate bullets from these 22lr brass jackets. I have a couple thoughts regarding the alloy percentages of the lead cores and possible pinning/hammer forging/polishing/hardening of the jacket on the formed bullet with use of small ball barrings in a vibrating tumbler. You are right, when you have the tools it is a lot of fun experimenting with all the possibilities.

Keep use posted and I'm sure others will chime in very soon.

4 more point form dies went out today :)

BT

[R.Ph. 380]

I'm wondering if small rings cut from copper tubing would work to peen the newly minted bullets after point forming and the final polishing in the SS media. I'm trying to get an alternative to the BB's idea due to the necessity to keep replenishing those. I've also thought about getting the meplat trimmer and point former from here: http://www.bullettipping.com/products_hoovermeplattrimmer.html
Bill

[Nickle]

I've got a Whidden meplat trimmer and point forming die. Had to send them the 224 and 243 stuff back, as they are set up for bullets that are much longer than mine. 308 was OK.

They were good about it, and cheerfully said, send them back, we'll fix them.

[Lizard333]

I have the Hoover meplate trimmer and it has increased my accuracy quite a bit. Frankly using 22lR jackets, I was satisfied with the end result but the tip of the HP was never perfect. For plinking I don't bother trimming it, but when I'm going for accuracy, it seems to help a lot. The Hoover meplate trimmer is very well made. Good stuff. Not like some of the plastic models out there. You get what you pay for.

[DukeInFlorida]

1) I store all of my BT Sniper sets in his original black BT Sniper swaging boxes. I have two tall stacks of them!
2) Casting cores consumes a lot of my time. It really sucks to get ready to swage pistol bullets, only to find that your supply of cast cores has been depleted. Stay way ahead on the core casting.
3) Ditto on keeping ahead on jackets, annealed, etc..... Also time consuming, but once you have annealed jackets and cores ready to roll, the swaging part is easy!
4) Don't be in a hurry when swaging the 224 bullets. Of all of the calibers that I swage this one demands the most concentration and care. The quality of the end result will suffer greatly if you attempt to swage these while you are in a hurry.
5) I also show others the swaged bullets. All of my reloading students get VERY excited about seeing the swaged bullets. I always have a large sample zip lock in my range bag, and some small ziplocks. I send people home with samples, including pieces from the various steps. I get lots of "WOW!", "Thanks!", and amazed smiles. It takes some of them a while to understand that what I am showing them is the PROJECTILE, and not the assembled cartridge. I've also had a few people specifically ask me to show them the actual process in action. They are always stunned to see how simple it is to make jacketed bullets using the swaging technique and tools.

[Lizard333]

Weigh your jackets. Half hazardly plopping cores in any old 22 case you have lying around, will lead to mediocre accuracy at best. Worst, you can get jacket core separation leading to a blockage and a possible destruction of said firearm.

Take the time and sort them by weight BEFORE you add cores will lead to a better bullet and more consistent results. Federal cases are notorious for being up to a full grain different.

Take your time. When swaging and seating your cores, let the lead "stabilize". When you hit the top of your stroke, let the handle rest for a good beat before you eject. Keep the same rhythm and be consistent.

Lube goes a LONG way. A very thin film is all you need. Think pistons in an engine. All it takes is a very thin film to prevent the jackets or cores from sticking to your dies. If you can see the excess, you have to much.

[Cane_man]

^^^ which 22LR cases make the best .224 bullets? i have been told Federal is the best???

[Lizard333]

I personally find the Eley brass to be the most consistent and best quality. I've gotten 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards.

As far as federal brass goes you have two kinds of people. Those that love the stuff, that would be me, and those that hate it. I'm using RCE dies so that might be part of the reason I happen to like it.

[Prospector Howard]

I'm going to way in again on derim punches. Dave18 had a question on another thread on the different lengths he's getting when he's "drawing" the cases while derimming, and whether anyone trims the jacket for more unifomity. This is what I was talking about from first getting on this forum. If you're drawing (stretching) the cases, you're asking for trouble and aggravation. On Corbin's site he says that the derim punch should be .199 - .200. That's what I started at years ago and it was nothing but a PITA. Stretched cases, heads popping off, and putting excessive strain on my press. Dave18 said he was getting jackets anywhere from .705 to .720 long. I get pretty consistent jacket lengths of .685 plus or minus .002 even with different brands, mainly because I'm not "stretching" them. They are also ending up more consistent looking because the derim punch I use on the thicker cases (Federal and CCI) is .003 smaller diameter than the one I use on the thinner cases (Remington and Winchester). I'm curious if others are doing it the same way I am or If I'm the only one, and everyone else is using a one size fits all aproach using a (too large in my opinion) .199 - .200 derim punch.

[Cane_man]

per your inspiration Howard i am using a 0.195 derim punch, it leaves more meat on the case...

[Nickle]

I've got two derim dies I bought on eBay. One has a .197 punch, the other is .193.

IMNSHO, the one with the .197 punch seems better at it. Probably different bore diameters in the dies, but I'll check that later.

[plus1hdcp]

Great information guys, thank you. This is exactly some of the stuff I anticipated with this thread. I plan to start separating my future 22lr cases by manufacturer. I will also experiment with the different punch sizes also. I already planned to cast/bleed cores to various wer ight also. All this adds to the benefits of swaging our own.

[303british.com]

I always sort cases by manufacturer before doing anything. That goes a long way for ensuring consistency. I wash them, lube and then derim. Some get trimmed, others do not. I don't bother with annealing.

I have several punches of different diameters that I use with specific manufacturers. Of the brass I use on a regular basis, Federal seems to have the hardest/thickest cases. Eley, SK, Win and Lapua are the ones that I like and have the fewest problems with.

[DukeInFlorida]

I derim without sorting by manufacturer. They all go into a bucket. With my derimming machine, the bucket fills fast!

However, I do sort the jackets by weight. I don't worry about manufacturer. I worry about only the weight. Tenth of a grain increments.

I find that no matter how careful I am with cores, I still find some variance with those as well. Therefore, I sort cores by weight, also tenth of a grain variations.

I then match up cores and jackets to equal the 55 grain weight I am seeking. It's easy to do when I have small containers of all of the various weights to do so. The math is simple.

[BT Sniper]

What I have learned recently is that if you can make decent bullets from 22lr brass you will be able to make awesome bullets form quality commercial jackets. I know it might seem to go against my entire "brass for jackets" methods but it is nice to know you can make some great bullets with good commercial jackets as well.

I also learned that the same cores we use in the 22lr brass for 55 grain bullets, when paired with .800" commercial jackets, makes perfect 62 grain bullets! Do need a smaller diameter core seat die of course.

62 grain bullet in my 9s 22 cal die using same lead core as 55 grain brass jacket bullets!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/017_zps7089beb6.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/017_zps7089beb6.jpg.html)

Swage on!

BT

[customcutter]

Duke, you shooting for accuracy or quantity?:-D

CC

[DukeInFlorida]

My son and I created a "shoot out the star" game, similar to the BB gun game you used to see at the carnivals.
We play that game at 50 yards. We each get 3 mags, and the first one to shoot out their star wins. The game goes very quickly. Have been known to run through a full ammo can of swaged ammo in less than an hour.

Very fun game, and like the BB gun carnival game, accuracy isn't always the goal.

I have another AR that has a 3X multiplier on the EoTech sight, and I use that gun at 100 yards, and as long as the groups are 1" or less, I am happy.

Then, there's the fun of shooting at 720 rounds per minute! The best you can hope for is to spray all 30 rounds in the body area of a full sized man target (bottle target) at 40-50 yards.

NONE of my shooting is for precision. It's all for fun! None of it is for competition, either. The only one I compete against is my son... with the shoot out the star game.

[customcutter]

Sounds like lots of fun, and you are getting accuracy as well. Like I've said about making my own dies, I'm looking for MOIntruder, not MOA. Just wondered how the not sorting Mfg was working, but sounds like the 55gr total weight has it worked out.8-)

CC

[303british.com]

What I have learned recently is that if you can make decent bullets from 22lr brass you will be able to make awesome bullets form quality commercial jackets. I know it might seem to go against my entire "brass for jackets" methods but it is nice to know you can make some great bullets with good commercial jackets as well.

I also learned that the same cores we use in the 22lr brass for 55 grain bullets, when paired with .800" commercial jackets, makes perfect 62 grain bullets! Do need a smaller diameter core seat die of course.

62 grain bullet in my 9s 22 cal die using same lead core as 55 grain brass jacket bullets!

Swage on!

BT

There are a few of us that use either Sierra or J4 jackets for target/precision shooting. There's a real satisfaction about not only reloading your own cartridges, but creating the bullets that produce small groups. With bullet prices going up and up, being able to make the bullets is a real plus.

Now, if I could only figure out why I spent so much money to save a few cents a shot...:razz:

[Nickle]

I use J4 jaclets for precision work myself. Been using bullets made by others when I was actively shooting before. Taking it up again, and this time I make bullets anyways.

It's not about saving money with me. It's getting precision bullets, better than factory. Plus, it's also about being able to get bullets during shortage times.

[plus1hdcp]

Guys, lets talk a bit about core weight. I like Duke's idea of striving for 55gr and I can see where this should lead towards a consistent fill. For the bulk of my rounds, a minute of pie plate punching a paper target it all I need but taking my time I would like to make the best possible component.

Duke - are you separating cores based on .1 gr variance and then using an average weight of the 22 lr case? This seems to be the most efficient means to achieve what should end up being 55 gr +- .1 or .2 grains.

I would be interested in learning what other methods you all are using.

[customcutter]

Guys, lets talk a bit about core weight. I like Duke's idea of striving for 55gr and I can see where this should lead towards a consistent fill. For the bulk of my rounds, a minute of pie plate punching a paper target it all I need but taking my time I would like to make the best possible component.

Duke - are you separating cores based on .1 gr variance and then using an average weight of the 22 lr case? This seems to be the most efficient means to achieve what should end up being 55 gr +- .1 or .2 grains.

I would be interested in learning what other methods you all are using.

I like your minute of pie plate, hope you don't mind if I borrow it from now on.:bigsmyl2:

CC

[Nickle]

You can add "minute of barn door" as well.

22 LR jackets should be near as good or better than factory bullets. Hand swaged with J4 jackets should be much better.

[customcutter]

You can add "minute of barn door" as well.

22 LR jackets should be near as good or better than factory bullets. Hand swaged with J4 jackets should be much better.

Remember talking to a gunsmith years ago. He had a customer ask if he guaranteed "accuracy" of his custom rifles. He told him no, he's seen people who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, and that was from the inside with the doors closed.:bigsmyl2:

[Nickle]

Hee hee, only a foolish 'smith even considers "guaranteeing" accuracy. There's the issue of the nut behind the butt plate, and whether he can load ammo worth a hill of beans. Or shoot very well.

Accuracy is a relative term.

Many of you would consider a 1 MOA rifle to be accurate. I don't, as I've shot too many bench guns that were capable of groups below .25 MOA. Best I've done is about .102 MOA, a .204" group at 200 meters in a competition. And that wasn't the smallest group that particular match. One guy beat that one. 10 1/2 pound 22 PPC, with a 24X scope. Shot at Johnstown, NY, Pine Tree range back in the mid 80's.

[plus1hdcp]

Remember talking to a gunsmith years ago. He had a customer ask if he guaranteed "accuracy" of his custom rifles. He told him no, he's seen people who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, and that was from the inside with the doors closed.:bigsmyl2:

Feel free to use the pie plate as I will use ^^^ . I love the inside with the doors closed - never heard that one

[Nickle]

"Can't hit the broad side of a barn. From inside, with the doors closed."

I've known that one for a while.

[303british.com]

I weigh cores and keep them within 1 percent, but actually 2 percent is fine. I don't weigh cases.

After the bullet is made, I separate them by weight - 1 percent again. For example, a 43.0 grain bullet would be 42.8 to 43.2 grains. Almost all bullets come in at this weight, but any that are over or under, I group together as well. i.e. 43.3 to 43.7 gr.

It's alright to maintain consistency, but don't get anal. I have bullets that were out by as much as .8 of a grain compared to others in the box. They still grouped at 0.75 inch. They might have been tighter had I did some load development.

You really shouldn't expect better than 0.75 inch@100 yd. Two big reasons. You cannot get BR accuracy because of the bullets. Secondly, most people are not shooting accurized rifles.

Enjoy!

[fredj338]

Now that Brian has made me complete, I am getting ready to seat cores & get my first bullets made. In weighing cores & jackets, there is quite a variation in jackets, +/- 0.3gr in cores. I feel the more I swage, the better feel I will get for core swaging. So I am going to match core wts with jacket wts to give me 55gr bullets, +/- 0.1gr. Even within the same brand of brass, there can be quite a bit of variation as much as 0.6gr.

[Lizard333]

This is where the "feel" comes in. Seating your cores in the jackets is one of THE most crucial steps. You find a lite core and the pressure to seat will feel different. I keep my die loose so I can adjust up or down to get the proper pressure to properly seat the core. To loose and your bullets will get stuck on your ejection punch. No good. To much pressure and you will pop your brass off the core. It's a very fine line.

Now, for commercial jackets I lock down the die. Your dealing with a far more consistent product designed to be made into bullets.

[Cane_man]

^^^ i do the same, leave the die loose so i can adjust it a little up or down to get the right "feel" for each case...

what are you looking for if you think yo got the core seated correctly?

seems like if the lead just begins to flow up the inside of the case then it is good to go for point forming...

[BT Sniper]

Using various 22 cal jackets and lead cores that are swaged to equal weights I just haven't hand much problem yet. You can tell when a heavy case (federal) slips in. This is where the "feel" comes into play. Simply set the dies for the heavy federal case and I have been good to go since anything that follows will be slightly lighter and there for no risks.

BT

[303british.com]

Because Federal and a couple of others have thicker jackets, I believe it's important to sort by brand. I have several different diameter punches, but I don't like to swap between them, so I spend a little time sorting first. That's why I don't weigh empty cases. I do weigh every tenth core or so and every one of the final product. Any finished bullets that are out of spec go into one of two plastic tubs - the underweight tub (42.3 to 42.7 gr.) or the overweight tub (43.3 to 43.7 gr.). I do have a reject box - anything outside the 42.3 to 43.7 grain spread, but darned few end up in there. I believe that this is because of the pre-sort and the fact that I take my time.

I try to encourage people to make their own. It doesn't have to be expensive or complicated. What I have noticed - just my opinion - is that the BR bullet makers often describe the bullet making process as a mystical thing - akin to brain surgery, witchcraft and superior motor skills all rolled into one. Reading some of those sites may give a curious newbie the impression that few can truly master the art. 'Tis alchemy! Actually, 'tis marketing.

If you're making your own, just take your time and have fun. If the bug bites you, you'll end up getting all sorts of expensive extras, just like audiophiles or camera bugs do. :)




























If you are reading this, you truly are driven to make the perfect projectile! You need my magic bullet maker's dust! Passed down to me by ancient alchemists, it's available in two sizes 4oz. and 8 oz. For the commercial bullet maker. 4 oz. $199.99 (makes approx. 2500 bullets) or 8 oz for $279.99 (makes 5,000 bullets)

[Lizard333]

I look for the pressure ring that occurs when you seat the cores. This ring occurs where the level of the lead ends up in your jacket. It's not real pronounced but after doing it you'll start to notice. I learned how to swage from a guy that makes nothing but the best. Frankly, why wouldn't you want to? If I wanted bulk ammo, I could buy a LOT of bulk projectiles for what I have in my press and dies.

I realize these are just 22LR jacketed bullets but I find myself striving for the best.

Bottom line, taking your time, not rushing through the processes will produce better bullets.

[supe47]

A 5 shot, one ragged hole group is possible.......just not every group. Expect flyers. Enjoy telling people " I made those ", but skirt the fact that it cost you a small fortune. Hope and pray that some company starts making 22 LR ammo that has the same last name as yours so you can have your name on every bullet you make, like me ( Winchester Super-X says SUPER on the base ). Don't worry about your growing container of "flawed" bullets, your AR won't know the difference when blasting. Being anal can produce some mighty fine shooting bullets. You're recycling brass one more time before it goes to China. Be proud of those little buggers you're making. You are part of a very small, arcane group. Swaging IS akin to Alchemy. :smile:
Supe

[303british.com]

I never worry about my out of spec bullets. They all group under and inch with varying weights. It takes me six or eight months to gather up enough rejects for a box of 50 reloads, so it's a slow process. Several years ago, I had 30 or 40 of these 60ish gr. bullets that weighed from 61 to 63 grains. The out of spec bullets shot 0.78 of an inch from my 222 Rem. Tikka T3. I used to polish them up, but don't bother anymore. You can see why I call them Coyote Gold bullets.

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/S_Redgwell/Bullets/Varminttarget.jpg...http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/S_Redgwell/Bullets/Varmintbowl.jpg

I keep a few thousand .224 bullet of different weights on a shelf in my den. These are mostly 52s and 66s made from J4 jackets. They are all OTs. They are in the small boxes of 100. The larger ones are 250 packs of 43 gr. and 60 gr. bullets made from RF cases.

http://www.303british.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/BulletBox.jpg

These are my favourites - 52gr. and 66 gr, FB OTs made with J4 jackets.

http://www.303british.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/52.224.jpg...http://www.303british.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/66.224.jpg

This is my favourite hunting bullet. I use it with my Lee Enfields. It's a 200 gr. FB RT bullet of my own design.

http://www.303british.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/WIAEE2B.jpg.w300h443.jpg

[BT Sniper]

I wonder what sort of effects different mixes of core alloy would have on accuracy?

[Utah Shooter]

Guys, lets talk a bit about core weight. I like Duke's idea of striving for 55gr and I can see where this should lead towards a consistent fill. For the bulk of my rounds, a minute of pie plate punching a paper target it all I need but taking my time I would like to make the best possible component.

Duke - are you separating cores based on .1 gr variance and then using an average weight of the 22 lr case? This seems to be the most efficient means to achieve what should end up being 55 gr +- .1 or .2 grains.

I would be interested in learning what other methods you all are using.

I am starting to find that core weight is simply one of many ways to achieve a great bullet

Another is how well the lead fills the jacket that you are using. Some would even argue that weight to the tenth of a grain is not all that it is cracked up to be, where it fills into the jacket is more important.

[Utah Shooter]

You really shouldn't expect better than 0.75 inch@100 yd. Two big reasons. You cannot get BR accuracy because of the bullets. Secondly, most people are not shooting accurized rifles.Enjoy!

You should expect to get out of them what you put in.

22lr jackets at 100 yards and out of a non accurized AR-15.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1080375_zpsa2557381.jpg



seems like if the lead just begins to flow up the inside of the case then it is good to go for point forming...

Think about this.

If your seating punch is not scraping the sides of the jacket as you are seating the core what is more than likely going to happen?

1. Lead bleed by past the punch?

2. Getting a full expansion of the jacket that is harder to move than the lead core?

Just because you have bleed by does not mean that it is ready for point forming.

[303british.com]

I am starting to find that core weight is simply one of many ways to achieve a great bullet

Another is how well the lead fills the jacket that you are using. Some would even argue that weight to the tenth of a grain is not all that it is cracked up to be, where it fills into the jacket is more important.

Voids (air pockets) in the bullet will upset the balance. Nose heavy bullets will upset the balance. Variations in weight don't mean much, as long as it's held to 2 percent or less. For me, jacket construction is the most important thing. My RF jacketed bullets cannot shoot as well as the commercial jacketed stuff. Sure, you'll get the odd small group, but tiny, repeatable groups with j4/Sierra jackets are where the money is.

Weight becomes less of a concern the heavier a bullet gets. IOW, you can make larger errors with bigger bullets before accuracy takes a dive. For example, 1 percent of a 50 gr. bullet (0.5 gr) vs 1 percent of a 200 gr. (2.0 gr.)

.308 bullets varying in weight by several grains all shoot to the same point of aim. .224 bullets varying by several grains would be more profoundly affected. I'm more concerned with assembling uniformity rather than weight consistency.

[303british.com]

I wonder what sort of effects different mixes of core alloy would have on accuracy?

I wouldn't expect that there would be too much of a difference, unless you used something which changed the length of the bullet significantly I suppose.

[BT Sniper]

As far as core alloy goes, my question concerns what effect it may have on accuracy but also the bullets making it to the target when using 22lr jackets. Is a softer core more likely to blow up vs. a harder core and visa-versa? I've been able to push them to the max and have them all make it to target and I suspect a blown bullet is more likely the cause of a flaw in the jacket somewhere but just a thought with the soft or harder alloy core.

BT

[303british.com]

The bullet's core won't have much to do with it coming apart, if pushed too fast. The thin wall of the 22RF case cannot stand the RPM and may fly apart. They are 0.010 to 0.012 inches thick. As a retired armourer, it makes sense to me that either the newness (sharpness) of the rifling or a fast rate of twist will spin the bullet apart. After it laves the bore, there's nothing to hold it together and it will vapourize.

I haven't cut too many apart, but remember several conservations with ammunition co. reps that said, and I believe it, that 22RF cartridges have been made for so many years that all the bugs were worked out. Consistency of jacket construction, even with less expensive brands, is quite good. It suggests to me that wall thickness is pretty consistent.

One of the things bullet-makers do that can weaken the bullet is to use an oversized punch when derimming. The brass stretches near the rim which can leave a narrow spot. When you seat the core and the jacket is stretched, the narrow area can stretch a bit more. Combine this with a bullet pushed in excess of 3000 fps, a newer barrel with a fast twist rate and sharp rifling and it will come apart.

[Prospector Howard]

Absolutey agree with you on the oversized derim punch, 303. I first got on this site and my first post was to warn people about that issue. When you stretch the cases from the first step it causes problems all the way down the process, including the possibility of weakening the base of the jacket so much that it's possible to shoot the base through with the core and leave the jacket in the barrel. I still think that's what happened to Mustang in that thread he started. It also (in my testing) has no effect on accuracy to use a slightly smaller punch. I also noticed your like me and use 2 different punches depending on the brand of case, I like the way you think. I'm amazed that on the Corbin site it says to use a derim punch at .199 - .200. I can't even imagine what's going on there. When I first started doing this I took his word for it and quickly found out what a bad idea that was.
The bullet's core won't have much to do with it coming apart, if pushed too fast. The thin wall of the 22RF case cannot stand the RPM and may fly apart. They are 0.010 to 0.012 inches thick. As a retired armourer, it makes sense to me that either the newness (sharpness) of the rifling or a fast rate of twist will spin the bullet apart. After it laves the bore, there's nothing to hold it together and it will vapourize.

I haven't cut too many apart, but remember several conservations with ammunition co. reps that said, and I believe it, that 22RF cartridges have been made for so many years that all the bugs were worked out. Consistency of jacket construction, even with less expensive brands, is quite good. It suggests to me that wall thickness is pretty consistent.

One of the things bullet-makers do that can weaken the bullet is to use an oversized punch when derimming. The brass stretches near the rim which can leave a narrow spot. When you seat the core and the jacket is stretched, the narrow area can stretch a bit more. Combine this with a bullet pushed in excess of 3000 fps, a newer barrel with a fast twist rate and sharp rifling and it will come apart.

[303british.com]

Yes, I just took a second punch, put it in my drill press and reduced the diameter a few thou. It wasn't much. 0.196 or 0.197 inches. I used the Dave Corbin punches because they aren't as hard as Richard's punches. The pressure created when you seat the core expands the jacket out to the proper diameter, so a few thou won't matter.

You see this when making 6mm bullets from 22 RF cases. The punch is two diameters. The smaller one unfolds the rim and the second, larger diameter puts a flare in the case mouth.

[Prospector Howard]

Here's something that I haven't noticed anyone mention, the Lee factory crimp die. The die works really good with my home made .223 brass jacket bullets for my Mini-14. No cannelure necessary with the die and these bullets. It works really good to crimp the bullet in place for semi-auto feeding. Be careful not to overdue it though. I don't bother with my bolt action rifles. I'll bet others are using it to, I just haven't noticed anyone say anything about it.

[Cane_man]

the Lee FCD for rifle is awesome and is the best type of die they make imo, i add one to all my reloading calibers for rifle...

[customcutter]

^^^+2 on the Lee FCD