how do muzzleloader matches work?

[Whiterabbit]

I don't mean rendezvous, just black powder shoots. I asked for very bare details, all I know is it is shooting from a standing position at 25 and 50 yards.

How does it all usually go down for a match like that, and what are the typical group sizes the good local shooters capable of shooting? what should I be expected to be able to do to be competitive?

[mooman76]

You'll really have to go to find out. Each will have their own rules and some are large groups and some are small. They usually get creative with the targets. Some paper targets, some times maybe shooting through a block of wood or string holding something up or splitting a ball on a axe blade. Kind of like the creativity on Topshot. Others may just be strait shooting paper. The first one I went to I won two events and they scoffed because I didn't throw anything in the kitty. I was new and didn't really know what was going on yet. The idea was to throw(20 years ago) something on the blanket worth $5, cash was expectable. Then winners would pick items. Some clubs require proper dress even at informal matches and some don't.

[bob208]

i have shot matchs since 85. most are offhand at 25 and 50 yd. like you said. they use various paper targets. rabbit squrriel fox skunk. frying pan with two eggs in it the eggs are the scoring. it is not just the round standard bullseye. i have made up a few targets my self. some clubs even have 75 and 100 yd. targets.

you get 20 min. to fire 5 shots at your target. then the line is called and you pull and post another target. they are scored top score gets first pick then on down till haow ever many places they are paying out. prizes are mostly meat around here. around here it was turkeys hams beef rosts. last place could be a big can of beens.

one club i shoot at for first place you better have a 48-49 or better. i have afew pins for shooting at 50.

for a rifle you don't need to spend a lot. i have seen some good shooting with cva and t.c. rifles right out of the box i started with a lyman greatplains rifle in .50 i picked up at a yard sale for $100. then i put a .40 cal barrel on it not that the .40 shot better then the .50. it used less powder and lead. also less recoil. which means alot in a 50-60 shot match. then just to be different i picked up a h&a underhammer in .45. that rifle has brought home a lot of meat. it cost me $125.

any thing you want to know ask. i will try to help.

[Whiterabbit]

I already have a rifle, and it shoots amazing groups when bench rested. I already know exactly how much powder to use to hit the X of a standard 25 yard NRA pistol target at 50 yards.

But I've never shot at 25 yards and I've only shot at 12" diameter steels at 100 yards from a standing position. Wasn't sure how "competitive" I needed to be so as not to take home a big can of beans (I'm sure I'll take home a big smile no matter how I do). What does 48-49 or 50 mean? 5 shots in the 10 ring? is that like within the whites of the eggs on the frying pan? ;p

this was my rifle's maiden voyage from the bench, 50 yards. There wasn't much work needed to get it on the bull!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65582&d=1364425023

[451 Pete]

Steve muzzle loading match's can be pretty much anything that the match director can think up and the fellows want to shoot. Most clubs will have a " Woods Walk " and paper target match's on a monthly basis. Most of the shooting is done offhand in these ... something that does take practice. A Woods Walk is one that has novelty targets and can be a ton of fun. Sometimes the shooter is required to hit a target like a frying pan or a potato or piece of charcoal hanging from a string ... sometimes the target is cutting a playing card in half. Like I said it is up to the imagination of the shooters and match director for the club but in general the people you meet and fellas you are shooting against are mainly just out there to have a good time.

Pete

[Guido4198]

Where I shot muzzleloader matches, we fired 25, 50, and 100. All offhand. All conventional black bullseye targets. At 25 yds. the target had 5 bullseyes on it, 1.5 in. in diameter and to be competitive, you'd better center-cut all 5. From 50 yds, the bull was 3 in. the 10 ring about 1.5, and once again..you'd better at least have'em all somewhere in the black with most in that 10 ring. The 100 yd target had a 6 in. black bull and on that one...just keeping them all someplace in the black was doing pretty well.
I know this isn't real technical information, but it should give you some idea at least. The key to making a good 5 round relay is consistent fouling control. Whatever you do....do it the SAME WAY every time.

[mooman76]

One thing I forgot to mention, when scoring they go by where the center of the bullet hits rather than if your bullet cuts the higher number, even barely you get the high number. This is to keep things fair because a larger bullet or RB would have a slight advantage over small one. You could see anything from a 32 to 69 caliber shooting.

[oldracer]

The San Diego monthly matches I attend are a target match, 5 off hand shots onto a 6x6 white target with a 2 inch (or close) black bulls eye at 25 yards. Then we shoot 1/2 size steel targets at 50 yards off hand with two shots at each of 3 different animals. 3 relays are run and you get 2 points for a first hit, 1 for a second shot hit and 0 if you miss both.

We recently did a 10 yard sideways card cutter fun shoot and about 50% of the shooters actually cut a card from the side!

[Shooter]

Don't forget Chunk gun matches. They may be the father of all matches, next to turkey shoots.
A "X" on a burnt board at 10 rods.

[Boerrancher]

All of the matches that I have shot in have been off hand, at various yardages from 10 yards to 100 yards. The targets can be just about anything from lolly pops, gongs made of various items and sizes, pop up animal targets, and just about anything else that someone can think to turn into a fun and challenging target. Most guys that shoot the matches are top notch folks. Some clubs have both smooth bore and rifle matches, while others will allow smothies in the rifle matches. There are even some matches where you have shoot, throw knives and hawks, and build a fire with primitive methods. All in all they are a hoot to attend and participate in. Most do prefer you to be in period dress. If I were you I would take one in and see what it is all about.

Best wishes,

Joe

[45 Bravo]

Like they have all said, the muzzle loading community has a good imagination.
The targets can be anything.

We have even shot a dollar bill at 100 yards off hand, (Everyone coughs up a dollar, and each gets 1 shot) the person who hits it gets half the money collected for that special stage (if more than one hit, the closest to Georges head wins)

It seems like you have already gotten a good start on the shooting, but, I would suggest learning where your rifle hits with that load at any given distance out to 100 yards.

I wouldn't go jacking with the load, just learn to shoot around its flight path.
(as a example, with the same ball, and patch and powder charge,) it may shoot say 1 inch low at 10 yards, dead on at 25, 2 inches high at 35 yards, dead on again at 50, 3 inches low at 75, and 6 inches low at 100.

And at some matches the targets may be at unknown distances, and it is up to you to determine the distance.

The way I practice for things like this (if your shooting range permits it) is walk toward the 100 yard mark, and lay targets of opportunity out at random distances (coke cans, and other smaller sized targets, some standing, some laying down, some end on so you only have the round bottom or top to aim at)
We shoot in the bottom of a deep sand pit, so ricochets are not a problem.
But it can be done with target stands at any distance, just learn to judge the distance.
(don't forget to throw your targets in the trash afterwards)

the next advice, use small targets, the smaller the aiming point you have, the less margin for error.

Reactive targets are more fun than punching holes in paper.

there is an old saying..

Aim small, miss small...

Good luck, keep us posted!

45 Bravo

[Whiterabbit]

Will do. Shot an email to the club secretary, hope something comes of that.

I do have a separate 50 and 100 yard load. 80 grains is dead on at 50, 100 grains is dead on at 100. But I will follow your advice for 25 yards and probably shoot 80 grains for anything 75 yards and down.

[drhall762]

Here is the outline of one group of matches.

The Victorian Rifleman Provincial Match
THE BASIC PROVINCIAL MATCH
13 rounds at 100 yards fired on the 50 meter UIT Slow fire Pistol Target B-17 in 30 minutes. Best ten hits count. Any position, sling may be used. No rests. Use any rifle of a type as originally used by Queen Victoria's Armies during her reign. Muzzle loader, Snider's and Martini's may use black powder, black powder substitutes, or factory loaded cordite ammunition. .303/7 x57 may only be shot with Smokeless powder or factory loaded cordite ammunition. Classic rifles may use black powder, black powder substitutes, smokeless powder, or factory loaded cordite ammunition. Cadet Rifles will be shot in the Classic Rifle category and include the .310 Cadet rifles. Trail Boss is considered a smokeless powder.

Provincial Match Variations- Rifle Matches
Muzzle loading rifle
Muzzle loading Smoothbore (fired at 50 yards)
Snider
Martini Henry
.303/7x57
Classic Rifles

Each rifle can be fired as an individual match. Martini .303s and Lee .303s compete equally together.


Specialty Matches
100 Yard off Hand

13 rounds at 100 yards fired in 30 minutes on the 50 meter UIT Slow fire Pistol Target B-17. Best ten hits count. Standing Off hand, sling may be used

3 Position match

5 rounds off-hand 25 yards
5 Rounds kneeling 50 yards
5 rounds prone 100 yards
Sling maybe used
All rounds score
10 Minutes to fire per position

Muzzle loading Smoothbore

Fired as the basic match, except range is 50 yards.

Mad Minute

As many rounds as can be fired in one minute. All rifles start unloaded and may only be single loaded. No charging magazines, no use of stripper clips. All rounds score, any position, slings may be used.


Aggregate Matches
One rifle match plus any two or more specialty matches, one of which must be the Mad Minute. Same rifle must be shot in each match.

THE BASIC PROVINCIAL HANDGUN MATCH

13 rounds at 25 yards fired in 30 minutes on the 50 meter UIT Slow fire Pistol Target B-17. Best ten hits count. Standing upright one handed like a proper gentleman. No rests. Use any Handgun of a type as originally used by Queen Victoria’s Armies during her reign.

Provincial Match Variations- Handgun
Muzzle loading Handgun-Black powder only
Black powder Cartridge Handgun using Black powder only
Cartridge Handgun using smokeless powder only.

Each handgun type fired as an individual match. Cartridge Revolvers and semi-automatics compete equally.

Interpretations
All matches will be shot in the Spirit of the Victorian Era. Rules shall have meanings as would have been interpreted by the late Sir Harry Paget Flashman, Brigadier-General V.C. K.C.B., K.C.I.E.

[waksupi]

I still see a few people who juggle loads for different ranges. Not a real good idea. I will bet that your gun has ONE load it shoots most accurately. That is the one a person should stick with, and learn where to hold.

For those who haven't shot at a ML shoot, inlines are generally not allowed, and patched round ball, and open sights are required.

[Fly]

My you brought a lot of them out on this question.There is not much I can add, other than there fun as heck.
We shot most at 25 & 50 yards off hand.But every now & then threw a 100 yarder in, along with the other things
mentioned above.

Fly

[Guido4198]

I'm enjoying the extended conversation this question has generated. Thanks to all for their contributions. A couple of points that might not have been mentioned yet have come to mind. Sights...There can be a lot of STRONG opinion on the question of whether or not adjustable sights are permitted. Check that out in the rules for whatever match you plan to attend. Even after the sight question has been addressed, and agreed to...I've seen a some STRONG opinions expressed when a shooter with the mandated "fixed" sights...used a shade over his front blade.

[rhbrink]

Sights and shaders? Just have to go with the local rules on that one.

Whiterabbit if you would like there is a muzzleloading postal going on over on the CBA forum. Just for fun you don't have join anything you might have to register on the forum? They are charging $4.00 to cover targets and postage any extra goes back to the forum for letting us use it.

RB

[KCSO]

If you go to the NMLRA web sight you can get all the actual rules for competition. NMLRA targets are used for sanctioned competition and there are 25, 50, 100 yard targets for off hand, cross stick, and bench rest shooting. Way too much info to post.

[Whiterabbit]

I have the details from the club now. 5 targets at 5 shots each, offhand at 25 and 50 yards. 2-3 at 25 and 3-2 at 50.

And guido, my sights ARE adjustable. I took a file to the range with me to adjust them right where I wanted them. :)

[TCLouis]

Unless they have changed NMLRA was allowing some inlines in matches.

The match we used to shoot here was offhand, cap or flinchlock 25 and 50 yard 6 bull (one target for a sighter, 5 for score) at one shot each, 5 shots at 100 yard single bull.

Then there were animal targets in a separate match, fox, squirrel, groundhog and something else as remember.

Chunk guns and Muskets were separate matches also.

Some matches in some locations allow bench rest type shooting.

Best thing I ever heard from a muzzleloading match was, "Don't let the shooting get in the way of the fun."

[Whiterabbit]

well I'm all set to go have my fun. But I have to ask, my flints will probably shoot 50 times without me touching them, then I start having to fiddle with them every 10 shots or so. Well, I got ONE fail to ignite at the range last week which means I've reached the stage in this flint life I'm gonna have to start taking tiny chunks off to get the next 40 shots out of it or so.

In short, my confidence is very high that this weekend, on the line, I'm gonna have a couple shots fail to light. Besides the other guys laughing at me, what do they normally do at matches? let me clear the pan, quick knapp the flint then and there, recharge, and go? is that SOP?

And I hope I can fire a shot or two at 25y before starting, that would be fantastic. No idea where my ball is gonna hit at 25. Maybe I should ask you guys, based on YOUR EXPERIENCE. If I have a 58 cal that shoots a round ball at 1500 fps with 80 grains of 3F, hits dead on at 50, a few inches low at 100 (4-6" ish? 5-7ish?), where would you expect to be at 25 yards? I'll probably aim dead center and let the chips fall where they may anyways, but what have you guys experienced?

[drhall762]

Somewhere on this forum is a link to a round ball ballistic calculator. You should have enough data for using it to predict the 25 yard POI.

[Whiterabbit]

cool, downloaded that months ago. ill try it.

[Whiterabbit]

ok, got it. .2 inches high..... OK I think I will just aim dead on at 25 :)

[mooman76]

Over at muzzleloadingforum.com they usually do a postal match every month. it's free except for postage. They just tell you what to use for a target and the rules. One thing I like almost as much as shooting at the club I used to belong was the stories. Unlike regular shooting where you just shoot, shoot, shoot you are loading and people talking and exchanging stories while shooting and of coarse someone gets distracted and forgets the powder first.

[DIRT Farmer]

If you shoot a flinter and never have a clatch, well it ain't going to happen. My favorite match, trade gun with shot on clays, the target is scored wether the gun fires or not. Flint management is a key part of the sport, but klatches happen.

[Guido4198]

Where I have shot muzzleloader matches, you have the option as to when you fire on your "Record" target. In other words, you can take off-record shots at a separate target before shooting for record. I haven't shot enough moatches at different clubs to know if that is universally the case.

50 shots from a flint is pretty good performance from my experience. Keep in mind, there are a lot of reasons why your rifle might not fire, besides issues with the rock's condition. Somewhere around the net is a tutorial on how to make a small knapping tool out of a big nail. I keep one handy, along with a (very) small hammer and lightly re-knap a flint without removing it from the lock if it appears to be damaged during a relay. In match shooting, develop a routine between shots that involves picking the vent and wiping both your frizzen face and flint between EVERY shot. I'm down in the hot humid South. Some folks may not have the moisture issues we have to contend with down here and will tell you none of that is necessary. I'm just telling you what it takes 'round here. Your location and experience may differ.
It's easier to maintain your concentration during a relay if you keep to a routine and do everything possible to insure 100% reliability of your equipment. When you bring your rifle up to take a shot for record...the LAST thing that should be going through your mind is wondering if she's gonna go off.

[Boerrancher]

When you bring your rifle up to take a shot for record...the LAST thing that should be going through your mind is wondering if she's gonna go off.

If you want to get good with your rock lock use it to squirrel hunt with. Even if it is a 50 cal use a 38 Spl case as a powder measure to start with. You may have to cut it down some to find the perfect charge, but be it rifle or trade gun you will figure out how to avoid misfires as much as possible by hunting small game. I have found that even with a trade gun and shot squirrels running through the tree tops will help you prep for just about any match.

Best wishes

Joe