Low vel. offhand practice Garand load

[nitrohuck]

So I am toying with the idea of loading up some cast rounds to try in the Garand, mostly just to have cheap ammo to practice offhand shooting with out to 200yrd, and when it came down to searching for Red Dot loads I found many divided responses.

Some say Red Dot loads of ~12-13gr do not work well accuracy-wise in the garand, others say they've had great results, but there is really not a LOT of information on it here, so I hope to get a discussion going that will settle once and for all the ability of Red Dot in the Garand.

I plan on using Lee 160's gas checked and tumble lubed in Xlox, and a starting charge of 12.5gr. I do not mind cycling the action manually, I normally single load anyway and in any type of match I will single load in the offhand stage so no problems there.

So for load breakdown clarification:

- Lee C309-160-R Sized to .309" gas checked and Xlox tumble lubed
- 12.5gr Red Dot
- Magnum LP primer
- HXP Case (and LC case)

Has anyone used a load similar to this with any decent accuracy? I have the BobSload written down for future use, but am really only interested in hearing about Red Dot or similar powders. Plus this gives me an opportunity to work on good followthrough with the long barrel time.

Thanks,
~Nitro

[ShooterAZ]

I have tried 13.0 gr Red Dot in the Garand with the Lee 155 gr. it was OK at 100, but trying to shoot this load at 200 yds. accurately will be stretching things a bit IMHO.

[TCLouis]

Unless you just have surplus of magnum primers to use up, I would stick to standard primer.

Accuracy may be better too.

It would be interesting to see what the bolt slamming forward on a semi auto does for powder distribution in the case and how it might affect accuracy!

[nitrohuck]

Well shouldn't red dot not be position sensitive? Similar to 2400 or the like?

Luckily, in offhand, as I am getting into position the rifle is pointed somewhat upward before dropping down into sight alignment, so I will inadvertantly be tipping the barrel upwards before each shot.

[bruce drake]

Unless you have an adjustable gas plug in your Garand you'll find that the load of 12gr of Red Dot will not always cycle the rifle. I switched to a 24gr load of IMR4895 to shoot lead out of my Garand when it has the GI plug in it.

[WILCO]

Well shouldn't red dot not be position sensitive? Similar to 2400 or the like?


Cast Bullet Loads for Military Rifles - Article:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?17574-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-629830.html

[WineMan]

Adjustable gas plug = less gas. Use when shooting slow powders and/or heavy bullets at jacketed (2,500 fps+) velocities. The Red Dot load is neither fish or foul, fairly hot but maybe not enough gas to cycle the action. The Garand needs enough gas to move everything, but not too much to slam all the parts. For single action no cycling, 7 gr Bullseye, 10 Unique, 16 2400, 19 4227, should get you to 200 with 600-800 on the sight and maybe some left windage. Big Boy loads are 35 of 4895, 40 of 4350 ad 45 of 4831 with CAST bullets of 170-200. These should cycle the action but might be too warm for real accuracy. Larry Gibson has been there and done that. Look at his posts as a place to start.

[ShooterAZ]

The Red Dot loads will not cycle the action on my Garands. 16 grains of 2400 doesn't either. 32-35 gr of IMR4895 with the the Lyman 311299 does though, and with very good accuracy. No need for magnum primers with any loads.

[nitrohuck]

The Red Dot loads will not cycle the action on my Garands. 16 grains of 2400 doesn't either. 32-35 gr of IMR4895 with the the Lyman 311299 does though, and with very good accuracy. No need for magnum primers with any loads.

I don't mind having to cycle the bolt manually, as in any offhand stage of a match I will be doing single loading anyway, so that isn't a huge turn off for me. If I need it to cycle I will just use my full powered hand loads, as I do when simulating rapid fire stages, etc.

I've got plenty of H4895, but IMR is pretty elusive in my area,

[WineMan]

The number for IMR 4895 will be the same for H4895. When you get to full power jacketed loads, you might need a grain or two less of the H version. YMMV. I use Accurate's version 2495 and it is a tad faster so a grain less at full power jacketed. With these you will find a sweet spot where accuracy, velocity and function will be best. Somewhere between 32-35 grains of the IMR/H 4895's. Dacron filler (+/- 1/2 grain) will probably enhance accuracy.

Dave

Dave

[nitrohuck]

Was always hoping to skip the dacron step if possible, just seems like an extra PITA, hence my interest in pistol powders due to the ignition sensitivity (or lack thereof)

FWIW: In my jacketed loads I've found 48.5gr H4895 to make a great shooting round out of my HRA SG M1.

Has anyone any experience with the LEE 309-160r? Just cast a bunch of them up, will be GC-ing and lubing soon, then will try out some of the red dot loads. If I can find a good target and also cast load to simulate offhand 200yrd practice at 50yrds I will be happy with the load surely,