Paper Cartridges

[rodwha]

I've read several threads concerning making paper cartridges at home using cigarette rolling papers and decided to give it a whirl.

One of the things I recall having read (it's been a while since I've read about it) was to use a 7/16" dowel to help roll the paper properly. I topped the dowel with my conical and used just enough paper to reach the first lube groove or the second band (~1/8") as I used 3 different types of conical.

I cut the papers in half and loaded them up with 35 grns of 3F powder and twisted the end to hold it in. There was usually just enough to get a little twisty on the end.

Then I began looking around for old threads on paper cartridges and found that a taper will help, if it's not required. Oops! I hadn't thought of that.

What do you guys use to roll the paper to make it tapered? This guy used plastic tubing of some sort. It looked like a piece of Bic pen or something.

And then I also found a fellow who uses a wet sponge to moisten the glue as licking it is likely a good way to ingest some lead. Oops again!

I used American Spirits rolling papers which are very thin and made of flax (IIRC).

My first time out with my rifle and pistol I spent 6 hours and only shot 50 rounds through each. This will really speed things up if it works well!

I can't wait to get to the range and try them out!

[junkpile]

I don't make paper cartridges. I'm interested, just don't do it yet. But don't worry about only getting 100 rounds down range. Instead, count your satisfaction in minutes. So, your last range session produced 360 ecstatically enjoyable minutes. My last session only produced 240. So, I currently envy you.

Let us know how the paper cartridges work out. I've never even thought about doing it.

[rodwha]

I've been a bit interested in them as I've read about them a few times. A fellow on another forum tried a thicker paper and had problems so I sent him some of the American Spirit papers as I used to smoke them, but bought the roll 'em yourself type and filtered cigarette tubes as it costed about as much as Marlboro's that way. I never heard back from him (9-12 months ago) so I decided to try them myself.

I'll send you a couple of packs if you want to try them out.

[rodwha]

I couldn't help myself! I sanded down the dowel a little bit and made some more!

These are 30 grns with a 190 grn conical.

I've run out of handy things to store them in and am using some tupperware. I fill in my gaps with cotton balls.

Has anyone stored them bullet down, tail up without the bullet pulling out? Mine are mostly held on by the lube sticking to the paper. I'm laying them flat as I'm afraid the bullets may pull out if I store them nose down.

[Mike 56]

Wrap the end of your dowel with 1 inch masking tape until it just fits a cylinder chamber. That will give you your taper. You can glue a bullet or round ball in the paper with a small amount of Elmer's glue. Polk a hole in the cart after loading with a nipple prick. Check the cylinder for paper before reloading. Tea bags work real good for cart paper.

[Omnivore]

There are as many ways to make cartridges as there are makers. I use a tapered pen cap for 44 cal revolver carts. The taper allows me to roll a round ball into the large end after the paper is rolled and stuck, then twist the ball end tight, and so there's no issue with lead. I leave the end long enough that after it's charged I can cut and fold. I leave the back end of the glue strip dry, and then lick it to hold the last fold down. That way there's no twisty end, and the cap flash always ignites the powder without pricking. The tapered carts are pretty well crushed and torn apart as you seat the ball anyway. If the cart is loose after gluing the back shut, you can twist the ball end some more to tighten it up. If you go too far, you tear the paper.

I store mine ball up, in those plastic trays that come inside regular metal pistol ammo boxes.

Now, rolling conical loads into paper carts is another matter, and IIRC back in the day they were rolled onto the bullet much as you describe, sometimes being tied into a bullet groove with string, though there was definitely more than one method. For one thing, some of the "combustible envelope cartridges" were made using skins rather than paper. “Water glass” (sodium silicate?) and gum Arabic were used as adhesives, as they are in the cartridge company order records, though it is not clear to me exactly HOW they were used.

Though I have a book on consumable carts of the day (circa the Civil War) I still have no idea how they made the skin carts. Some even were made with metal foil it seems, though of course those weren't "consumable". There are people who collect period carts, and it seems that collectors are far more interested in the history surrounding the trade than they are in anything actionable such as making your own. I had to thumb through pages and pages of family, company and transaction history to get a scant bit of actual cartridge physical characteristics and makeup.

I haven’t made any paper carts for a long time, as it’s pretty time consuming and I have a lot of other interests. I still have a few made up though, so I can do more shooting while at the range, or show people how some of the loads “back in the day” would have been used, but mostly it was done just because it seemed fascinating. I even printed up some of my own box labels and cap tin labels, using original 1860s labels as a starting point in Photoshop. So we seem to be getting somewhat into the absurd, or the deliciously eclectic if you like, what with using a computer, file sharing over the internet, digital photo editing and an ink-jet printer to “reproduce” 1860s artwork on modern paper. It has occurred to me that we are quite insane, but it can be fun.

[jimb16]

I use vellum and soak it in saltpeter disolved in water first, then dry it. That way, the paper burns up as well as the powder. I use a tiny bit of Elmer's to glue the paper cone onto the ball and get rid of the paper in front of the ball. That reduces the chance of a flash-over. Like you, I use a twist on the open end to hold the powder in. The treated vellum increases the dependability of ingition.

[rodwha]

76344

Here's 2 of the cartridges I made. Used a 190 grn conical and 240 grn RNFP bullet, as well as 180 grn RNFP's. 30-35 grns of 3F.

[Mike 56]

I made one tonight with a round ball i used to make these all the time now i use yellow speed loaders i got from Dixie.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg95/51colt/null-1489.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/51colt/media/null-1489.jpg.html)

[rodwha]

I've considered those speed loaders from Dixie as well as the type with a cap on either end. Do you know if either are waterproof?

How do you like those little yellow loaders?

Are you gluing the paper to the ball?

I've been considering my options for weekend hunts or backpacking where pistols are OK.

I recently bought a 3 pack of the speed loaders with a cap on either end for my rifle. I've yet to try them out.

[Mike 56]

I use Elmers glue all with a q-tip. I like the speed loaders they are pretty water tight i would not want to drop them in water. I carry them in my shooting bag. 44cal and 50 cal use the same loaders. I have never used the speed loaders you have. I have seen them they look like a slick setup.

[rodwha]

They worked out quite well. It did leave some paper residue in some of the chambers. I pulled it out in-between loadings for a while, and then decided to see if it would cause problems. After 3 cylinders I had no issues.

I did have a little bit of difficulty with a few of them not loading easily. I believe it to be from not being very tight. A little bit of slack caused them to bind a bit. A little finagling fixed it though.

I did have one bullet pull out, but out of 42 cartridges I think it fairly good considering no glue.

A fellow on another forum has mentioned a concoction of smokeless /acetone brushed on to the final cartridge to make the paper burn also. Has anyone ever heard of this or done something like it?

[gnoahhh]

I roll mine with Japanese rice paper (found in any art supply house). I cut out a bunch using a triangular shaped pattern, after first soaking the sheets of paper in a super-saturated solution of salt peter in warm water and allowing to dry. Then roll them on a tapered dowel 7/8" long (attached to a bigger dowel for ease in handling) that is .475" at one end tapering to 3/8" at the other. Paper is neatly folded over the narrow end leaving a minimal amount of paper to confront the percussion cap flame, and the whole works closed up with a light dab of Glue Stick adhesive. Pour the powder charge in, and seat the ball with another wipe of Glue Stick to hold the ball in the cartridge. This is for a .44. Dimensions for a .36 dowel= 7/8" x .400 x .312.

I like the nitrated rice paper because it is much, much, tougher than cigarette paper, is porous in nature, and highly combustible. I simply ram the cartridge whole into the cylinder chamber without doing anything to it, seat a cap, and fire. 100% ignition, 100% combustion of the paper. Because the cartridge is tapered, it will burst open when crushed into the chamber, helping to guarantee instant ignition.

The key to success is having the paper thoroughly soaked with the nitrate, super-saturated.*

A template/pattern for the papers can be made like this: lay out a right triangle with the 'long' side being 2 3/8" long. Then mark a point 11/32" outside the middle of the 'long' side, freehand a fair curve (between the two points of the triangle) that intersects that mark. Cut it out along the curved line and the two short equal length sides of the original triangle. Voilà, a pattern for .44 cap&ball revolver cartridges. The same pattern works for .36's too, but you might want to jockey the dimensions to suit.

* to super-saturate the solution, make the water hot- really hot- stir in the salt peter until no more will dissolve. The resultant solution will be holding much more nitrate than if it were merely dissolved in cold water. It can be used over and over to soak the paper sheets. Paper thus treated has a much higher level of nitrates in it than what you get with regular old cigarette papers.

[rodwha]

I've had another tell me to use stump killer. Is this the same thing? And if so does the brand matter?

[dondiego]

If the stump killer is labeled as 100% potassium nitrate it is the correct brand. I think that Spectracide is one brand.

[rodwha]

Of the two I looked into it seems Spectracide is 100% potassium nitrate.

Were I to want to make 50 cartridges at a time how much of this stuff would I need to make?

Could I just use a small paintbrush and brush it across the majority of the paper so as not to get the gum wet? Or does it literally need to be soaked?

[gnoahhh]

I would soak it. You want as much nitrate in the paper as possible. When rolling the cartridges with the dry nitrated paper, just use a glue stick (such as used by grade school kids) to hold it together and to affix the ball/bullet to it. Easy peasy.

I tried cigarette papers to roll cartridges with, years ago. I gave up on them after they started to break apart in the cartridge box when walking/hiking. Altogether too fragile for my tastes. That's why I switched to rice paper- problem solved.

[dondiego]

A lot of people don't use the nitrate at all on the paper.

[drhall762]

These folks sell Nitrate Paper. http://www.buffaloarms.com/Nitrate_Paper_it-779003.aspx?TERM=nitrate paper

[gnoahhh]

Granted, heavily nitrated paper isn't absolutely required for ignition- as long as the cartridge ruptures in the chamber when seated. What it helps with is complete combustion of said cartridge. The risk, however small, of a burning ember left behind to ignite the next charge going in, is greater with non-nitrated paper. That is one variable I can do without.

Cigarette paper is nitrated a bit, but not saturated. If they were, a guy's cigarette would go "poof" when he flicked his Bic.