Advise on shooting gas checked boolits without a gas check in a 22 Hornet

[birch]

I got in on the 225107 group buy and was finally able to cast up a bunch yesterday evening. I plan on working up some loads tomorrow but have a question.

I ordered my mould with four cavities. Two are gas checked and two are not.

I am wondering if anyone has had experience shooting a gas checked boolit without using a gas check. I ordered the two gas checked cavities with the intention of loading up some hot ones for long range varmint work. However, I really love the ability to drive cast boolits to .22lr velocities in my Hornet. In fact, 99% of my shooting will involve plinking at 100 yards or less. I realize that the difference in boolit weight will effect POI a little bit, but if I am able to drive them without leading problems, I can seperate the two types of completed rounds.

I really do not like cleaning lead out of my firearms, so if anyone can give me some advise before I try to drive the bare butted GS boolits, I would appreciate it.

[dromia]

I have found gas checked boolits to shoot fine, in the main, without gas checks at low, 1,200 fps or below velocities. At the end of the day your target will tell you.

At these speeds I just tumble lube with 45/45/10 from White Label.

Try it and see.

For 25 yrd target plinking in the Hornet a .22 air rifle pellet propelled by a primer is cheap and fun to shoot.

[dromia]

BTW with good boolit fit for your rifle and an appropriate lube for the application a leading should not be a issue.

[303Guy]

I've tried un-checked boolits in my 1 in 10 twist mini-14. They worked fine at lower velocities but groups opened up progressively as velocity increased and that means as they approached transonic velocity. At supersonic they were hopeless but even with gas checks accuracy was not great. A trick that might work with unchecked boolits is the use of a fibrous filler, the idea being to form a wad which seals the bore and possibly acts like a gas check.

I've tried the air rifle pellet and got more power than a 22lr HV. But with a small charge of powder they were great. Supersonic too.

[w30wcf]

Birch,
I found happiness with 3.0 / 231 and a 45 gr cast gc bullet w/o the gas check. Velocity was around 1500 f.p.s. and accuracy was very good <1" @ 50. Also tried 2.5 grs and that shot just as well.

w30wcf

[detox]

Linotype alloy works best with those small boolits. I hope your mould makes a concentric boolit:?

Lube with alox. Preheat alox in microwave until warm and thin. Then put all your boolits in baggy and pour in some alox. Roll boolits around until all are covered. Remove from baggy and set all your boolits (set all boolits on base) on wax paper. Wait a few hours for alox to solidify.

[w30wcf]

detox,
Actually, I have found that plain old w.w. +2% tin has worked very well for me....even at 2,700 f.p.s.:mrgreen:
That's because of the low sectional density,

w30wcf

[detox]

detox,
Actually, I have found that plain old w.w. +2% tin has worked very well for me....even at 2,700 f.p.s.:mrgreen:
That's because of the low sectional density,

w30wcf

Good Linotype fills mould LOTS better with less shrinkage....less boolit wobble down range.

[Gohon]

In reality you're not shooting gas check bullets without the gas check. It is a plain base bullet and there is a big difference. I've shot the unchecked bullets in my Hornets up to 1400-1500 fps and though leading was never a problem, accuracy was never anything to write home about. As you know, proper bullet to bore/groove fit will take care of most leading problems. Everything I shoot is air cooled wheel weights with some tin added at about 13 bhn. If I had a plain base design bullet I'd probable water drop them to get up around 18-19 bhn. I would love to be able to cast my own plain base 22 bullets for the Hornet and make my own squirrel loads. I would think the bullets you will be able to produce with your mold will shoot great.

[longbow]

No experience with .22 Hornet here but as for GC boolits shot barefooted, I have gotten poor results in both .30 cal. and .44 cal.

Not really pushing them hard either but I got leading and poor accuracy in both cases and multiple attempts with .30 cal. though I did not drop down to very light loads.

My take is that the driving bands on GC boolits tend to be narrower than a base band on a PB boolit and that there is enough blow by/gas cutting to cause some grief at anything greater than very mild loads. My experience anyway.

Note that Ben is removing GC shanks to make PB moulds and is shooting very small groups with light loads. Not sure if he has tried the GC boolits without GC or not but I suspect so otherwise why bother to alter the mould?

You might try PM'ing Ben to see if he can provide some details as he seems to have done a lot of work with PB boolits and is shooting tiny groups.

Just a thought.

Longbow

[bones37]

I also was wondering the same thing. I bought my mold from NOE website and its a 3 cavity GC. I was actually thinking of sending it to someone like buckshot to have the gas check removed from one cavity.
I got in on the 225107 group buy and was finally able to cast up a bunch yesterday evening. I plan on working up some loads tomorrow but have a question.

I ordered my mould with four cavities. Two are gas checked and two are not.

I am wondering if anyone has had experience shooting a gas checked boolit without using a gas check. I ordered the two gas checked cavities with the intention of loading up some hot ones for long range varmint work. However, I really love the ability to drive cast boolits to .22lr velocities in my Hornet. In fact, 99% of my shooting will involve plinking at 100 yards or less. I realize that the difference in boolit weight will effect POI a little bit, but if I am able to drive them without leading problems, I can seperate the two types of completed rounds.

I really do not like cleaning lead out of my firearms, so if anyone can give me some advise before I try to drive the bare butted GS boolits, I would appreciate it.

[birch]

There seems to be quite a difference in opinion on whether I should or should not.

I guess I will just try it with a light charge and work up until I either get leading or poor accuracy. I will be sure to make a seperate post with my results. I have noticed that there is not alot of feedback for the 225107 group buy. I thought for sure there would be all sorts of posts on the best pet loads for those who just received their moulds from NOE. Thanks to all who replied. It is appreciated.

[longbow]

It certainly won't hurt to try it. If you work up and find accuracy drops off you will probably find a bit of leading. That will tell you how far you can go.

It may work well and it may not but worth some testing. Range time is good!

Yeah, I have been hoping for posted range results on several group buys but no go so far. Odd. I try to get out and test out new boolits ASAP and post results.

Longbow

[w30wcf]

Good Linotype fills mould LOTS better with less shrinkage....less boolit wobble down range.

detox,
I have made lots of bullets from linotype and I agree that it makes beautiful bullets. I use g.c. designs with lino because the hardness can lead to throat leading with out the gas check. For bullets to be fired without the g.c. one is better of with a softer bullet that is much less prone to lead at moderate velocities.

w30wcf

[mroliver77]

I have found that if the boolit fits well and is proper hardness it is actually hard to get leading.

I shoot the 45gr Lyman( garsh # wont come to mind) TL and dusted with mica over a few gr of Bulls Eye to work well. I cast these from range scrap with some tin. Like I said if they fit well accuracy goes long before leading is an issue.
J

[BubbaJon]

I realize that the difference in boolit weight will effect POI a little bit,

No it won't. Gravity affects the boolit the same regardless of weight. Velocity is all that matters besides wind.

[BubbaJon]

Linotype alloy works best with those small boolits. I hope your mould makes a concentric boolit:?

I was always told that boolit roundness was not a factor since it got crammed into the barrel oversized anyway and obturation takes over. IOW it's round when it leaves the barrel regardless of how it went in.

[sackot]

OK, inexperienced caster here: but I have actually just tried this. I too have the NOE 225107 and a Hornet, 16 twist. At first I just tried the PB cavities, using something that should be an approximation to Lyman #2. I started with 2gr Red Dot, a Lyman recipe in older versions of the Cast manual. I was hoping for 22lr equivalent performance. I got no leading, but middling accuracy and a wide range of velocities (from memory, 1000 to 1300). Then I tried the GC version with checks. I'd never seated a check in my life. I had to make a little jig to offer up my Hornady checks square to the base. The accuracy with these was dreadful, both with 7gr LilGun and 2gr Red Dot (I didn't have the chrono). More troubleshooting clearly required here. Finally, with no expectations, I tried the GC cavities but with no check, 2gr Red Dot. For the first few shots at 50yd, I thought I must be missing the paper after the first shot. Not truely one hole, but through the scope I really was not sure. Then, the accuracy dropped right off, and later on cleaning I discovered many bright flecks of lead on the first few patches. I repeated this result with a second session, so no fluke.

This has made me interested in the possibility of boring out the GC shank from one of my cavities and getting a bullet with the slightly higher weight of the GC cavity, but with a plain base. I have 2PB and 3GC, so experimenting with one cavity should not be a disaster. I bought my 225017 straight after the original buy, so you can see things move quite slowly where I live... Maybe one day. I've also just bought a Lyman 225438 which is waiting for me to try it, just can't find the time.

I don't know the reason for the results reported above, so don't shoot the messenger, it's just what I saw.

[nanuk]

No it won't. Gravity affects the boolit the same regardless of weight. Velocity is all that matters besides wind.

so, a 500gr boolit fired at 1500fps will hit the exact same POI as a 200gr boolit fired at 1500fps?

I really don't think so

gravity has little to do with it, as it is a constant (or pretty close to it regarding boolits)

recoil has far more to do with it

[birch]

" Originally Posted by BubbaJon
No it won't. Gravity affects the boolit the same regardless of weight. Velocity is all that matters besides wind."

....so the same charge with a heavier or lighter bullet will have a different POI.