Lee .45ACP taper crimp die

[Jim]

I posted recently that I bought a Rock Island mid size milspec 1911. I've been reloading for it and found I'm having the same problems as a lot of other guys with that dern taper crimp die. That carbide ring is sizing the case down too much and compressing the boolits below my desired diameter.


I got to lookin' at the die yesterday and studying on how it's constructed. It appears the ring is simple pressed in and the mouth of the die is roll crimped over the ring. I stripped the die down to just the body and put it in a carpenter's vice, mouth up. I got out a pipe welder's half round bastard cut file and tried the metal to see if it's soft enough to cut. Sure enough, it is!


I carefully took the metal down until I felt the file skidding on the carbide. I went all the way around until I had the ring completely exposed. I then flipped the die and put it back in the vise, mouth down. I got out a 5/16" diameter hardened steel punch, went inside the die from the top and got the edge of the punch face on the edge of the carbide ring. One good rap with a small ball peen hammer on one side and then another on the other side and the ring popped right out.

I cleaned up the mouth with a diamond stone and tried it. Perfect. Now, all I get is the taper crimp I want and not a full length size at a diameter I can't control.

[r1kk1]

I've seen things like this on youtube and other forums. Can you post pics of the modified die and ring?

Take care

r1kk1

[44Vaquero]

From one Jim to another, why not just use a std taper crimp die? They only cost about 12.00 or 13.00 bucks, and you could have saved the factory crimp other uses. I use Lee dies in .45 ACP on my Load Master. Station #4 is the Bullet Seat and station #5 is the std taper crimp die. Lee says if you are using a newer die set there is little or no difference to taper crimping in a separation operation, but my experience proves otherwise.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/244052/lee-taper-crimp-die-45-acp

[Jupiter7]

For cast, I found the standard taper crimp to be the fix. The FCD sits in the box for now.

[mdi]

The factory crimp die has no other uses! I did the same, removed the carbide ring, with the one and only FCD I owned. I wound up just using an RCBS taper crimp die I had. BTW, my FCD now resides in a landfill somewhere in Southern Oregon...

[44Vaquero]

MDI, actually it is 50% of the bulge buster system (push through sizing) so it doe have other uses. Whether or not anybody finds that useful is a subject open to debate.

http://leeprecision.com/bulge-buster-kit.html

[DLCTEX]

I use the FCD for 45 ACP and the only time the carbide ring touches the brass at the area of the boolit is when a long case bulges the brass If the bullet seating die is too close to the case and roll crimps heavily. I size boolits to .452 and use many brands of brass. I haven't neede a larger boolit in any of a number of 45's I load for. I did have some TL boolits that caused the FCD to touch when loaded as cast, but didn't care for TL and run them through a lubesizer and lube them with Ben's Red now.

[44Vaquero]

MDI, actually it is 50% of the bulge buster system (push through sizing) so it doe have other uses. Whether or not anybody finds that useful is a subject open to debate.

http://leeprecision.com/bulge-buster-kit.html

I will PM you may address and together we can reduce the accumulated reloading components inhabiting our nations land fills.:grin:

[mdi]

Well, I didn't intend to start a thread about Lee Factory Crimp Dies (for handguns). In my opinion and experience, a Lee FCD's only use is to hide sloppy handloading/mis-adjusted dies. A Band-Aid fix for problems better addressed with proper die adjustments. I tend to think of the bazillion rounds of 45 ACP (and most other handgun rounds) reloaded and shot successfully prior to the introduction of Lee's FCD. I purchased one out of curiosity (.44 Magnum) an found it to be totally worthless. After I tried this first one I researched FCDs for semi-auto ammo.

I personally have nothing against anyone using an FCD (for handgun ammo), but my biggest concern is suggesting the use to new reloaders ("Don't fix your chambering problem, just hide it with an FCD"). I believe it's truly a disservice to new reloaders to "short cut" proper reloading practices recommending an FCD....

Jes an old reloader's experience and opinion...

[44Vaquero]

Mdi, I hear you and I agree with you. "I tend to think of the bazillion rounds of 45 ACP (and most other handgun rounds) reloaded and shot successfully prior to the introduction of Lee's FCD."

Although I own several of them, I have never used them, they were in 4 die sets purchased at a great price.

[jmort]

"I personally have nothing against anyone using an FCD..."

Sure you do, but at least this time you made it clear that it was your "opinion." The majority "opinion" is the opposite of your opinion. Using a "stock" Lee Precision FCD with-out regard to the diameter of you cast boolit is a problem. Use what you want/works don't use what you don't want/works. For around $20.00 I have the handgun FCD opened to my spec and "blueprinted" and that is one nice/useful dedicated "factory" crimping die for around $35.00.

[KYCaster]

I posted recently that I bought a Rock Island mid size milspec 1911. I've been reloading for it and found I'm having the same problems as a lot of other guys with that dern taper crimp die. That carbide ring is sizing the case down too much and compressing the boolits below my desired diameter.


I got to lookin' at the die yesterday and studying on how it's constructed. It appears the ring is simple pressed in and the mouth of the die is roll crimped over the ring. I stripped the die down to just the body and put it in a carpenter's vice, mouth up. I got out a pipe welder's half round bastard cut file and tried the metal to see if it's soft enough to cut. Sure enough, it is!


I carefully took the metal down until I felt the file skidding on the carbide. I went all the way around until I had the ring completely exposed. I then flipped the die and put it back in the vise, mouth down. I got out a 5/16" diameter hardened steel punch, went inside the die from the top and got the edge of the punch face on the edge of the carbide ring. One good rap with a small ball peen hammer on one side and then another on the other side and the ring popped right out.

I cleaned up the mouth with a diamond stone and tried it. Perfect. Now, all I get is the taper crimp I want and not a full length size at a diameter I can't control.




Looks like yet another satisfied Lee FCD user. [smilie=1:

Jerry

BTW...I agree with mdi.

[DougGuy]

Having that carbide ring sized to your own specs would be very useful. Maybe the folks at Lee could drop in and take a look at why those work better after your modifications and offer a cast boolit version of their carbide FCD. They may make the products, but they're not the ones using them, we are.

Not all of these things are inherently bad. Many just require a little ingenuity and a little tweaking to bring them to their best. I just got another uncataloged collet crimp die for .44 Rem Mag that will be disassembled, modified to my liking, and put to use.

I really don't have a use for my carbide ringed FCD, I tried it in the priming station of the LM press as a guide but it was a tad bit oversize to hold the cases snug. If they were only after resizing the "moon" bulge in the case, they could create an upside down collet die that only squeezes the case at the bottom and nothing else.

Edit after re-reading the OP... Jim, the Lee steel taper crimp die doesn't have that carbide ring in the bottom. Only the FCD has that carbide ring. Taper crimp and FCD are two totally different dies. I don't know how much difference there is in the die bodies of the two or if removing the ring turns it into the exact die internally as the taper crimp or not but if it's working for you, then that's all that matters.

[mdi]

You can use any die of your choosing with my blessings! It's your gun, ammo, shooting. But if I find my ammo won't chamber, I'll find out why. And the majority opinion says the same; find out why and fix it. I think if you asked a lot (majority) of reloaders would rather fix the problem, rather than "just make it work" by post seating sizing...

[Muddydogs]

I also drove the carbide ring out of my Lee .40 FCD. I purchased the die thinking I needed it but soon realized that it was a fix to a nonexistent problem if my sizing die was set up properly and creates problems when loading cast rounds. Before punching out the ring I looked for a standard taper crimp die but at that time they we either sold out or overpriced so I just fixed the Lee die.

[BD]

Lee FCDs can be a blessing, or a curse. The curse comes when you're wanting a boolit on the larger side, and your Lee FCD comes in on the smaller side, (and they do vary).
Its a blessing for me as I'm shooting throated modern barrels for the most part and the bores run real consistently around .4505, so I size .451 which happens to work perfectly with my particular FCD. I've had that Lee FCD in the last station of my Pro-Jector for many years, (coming right up on 100,000 rounds of .45 cap loaded on that press), and I wouldn't want to do without it as it produces rounds which absolutely will chamber every time. I clean my "games" gun about once a month during the season which translates to about every 800 - 1,000 rounds. Cleaning the barrel is the least of it, taking only a minute and 4 or 5 patches. There's never any leading. It's the lube gunk that really makes the mess in the extractor bore, on the barrel seat and in the nooks and crannies around the breech face.
BD

[MtGun44]

Please don't slander a real taper crimp die by calling a FCD a taper crimp die.

At best it does nothing except taper crimp, at worst it ruins lead boolit ammo.

+1 on mdi!

Bill

[prs]

The OP's title for this thread misidentifies the die that bugs him. The Lee taper crimp die is as good as any other I have used. The CFCD is a boar's teet.

prs

[btroj]

Jim, I am glad that you found a way to make what you have work.

Luckily I was aware of the issue with that dang ring before I bought a taper crimp for my 1911 and avoided that thing.

Don't let the naysayers get ya down Jim, sometimes we just gotta work with what we have.