Need lighter bullet for .40 S&W

[Jim..47]

I'm currently using a 175 Gn. truncated by Lee. This bullet shoots good, but my hands are real messed up and I would like to lighten the recoil a tad.

[fcvan]

I've shot the Lee 401-145 SWC boolit in my Glock 22C and 23 and the lighter boolit does reduce recoil. I would actually like a 140-150 ish HP TC or RN style mold as I think it would be a great performer, especially after powder coating. They just look cool and shoot great!

[Jim..47]

So how did this 145 Gn SWC shoot? Any difference accuracy wise then the 175?

[Muddydogs]

Whats your load with the 175's? How about loading them down some?

[dverna]

Why not just load down the 175??? You need enough power to cycle the slide and it will not make much difference if the minimum rearward force is from a 175 or 145 gr bullet. You could buy a new recoil spring and cut a few coils on it to allow the slide to cycle with lower powered loads.

One other option is to buy a 9mm barrel and mags (I did that for my Glock). It allows me to shoot either 9mm or .40 from the same gun.

Don Verna

[Digger]

Big fan of a 135 gr in the forty ....
Few years back , found a Keltec in 40 , normally is a nine mil known as the P-11 and found out even with the lightest of off the self loads , it was a kicker .
Keltec quit producing them because the public was returning a great number , limp wristing and all.
Found a gentleman who reloaded the 40 with 135 grainers and that little gun loved them , limp wristing , upside down , whatever way , they fired every time, and accurate too.
Couldn't find the old boy again but now that I had an idea what that little puppy liked , I got into reloading , within a few months ... casting as well .
Picked up one of Mihec's molds that puts out a hp 150 gr , and it likes those as well with no function problems at all but it proved to me that the 135 was a tad lighter yet on the recoil.
I also use the same 150 gr. in my Ruger P-90 .. with that one , you shoot it or use it for a hammer.
Never could find a suitable 135 cast out there till now ..... Oreo has a group buy going on the group buy section with two different versions , one is heavier but the other I can get down to 135 gr. hp.
Waiting the usual time span for Mihec to start , no rush as they are jewels of a mold when they arrive.
At this point in time , I can blame my entire casting addiction for all my calibers on that one little enjoyable gun (at least to me ) .

[Adam10mm]

So how did this 145 Gn SWC shoot? Any difference accuracy wise then the 175?
The Lee 401-145-SWC is a great boolit for the .40 and 10mm. I used it in the 10mm as a small game boolit. No issues with accuracy at all. Wished I would have seen this early, I've got this mold up for sale on an auction. I still have maybe 20 or 30 boolits cast that I dumped in my junk pile to get remelted. There's nothing wrong with them otherwise. I could mail them to you so you can try a few shots before you commit to buying a mold. If that would help, PM me and I can mail them tomorrow.

[afish4570]

Why not just load down the 175??? You need enough power to cycle the slide and it will not make much difference if the minimum rearward force is from a 175 or 145 gr bullet. You could buy a new recoil spring and cut a few coils on it to allow the slide to cycle with lower powered loads.

One other option is to buy a 9mm barrel and mags (I did that for my Glock). It allows me to shoot either 9mm or .40 from the same gun.

Don Verna

I would try a slower burning powder and load it down to get functioning......then I would see it that is comfortable for you. Don't know what powder you are using now. I was always taught that the slower powder is more of a push........and the faster powder, like Bullseye, might give you a slightly sharper jab. I have shot alot of BE and switched to Accurate # 5 . I have not been recoil sensitive and just shoot with the powder I have. Unfortunately powder selection right now is what ever you can get just use it. A call to the customer service dept of the powder manufacturer (or email) for any suggestions on your powder choice might help too. Experiment with what you have before buying just to buy . afish4570

[ku4hx]

Traditionally, lighter recoil in a given gun has been achieved by a combination of things: lighter bullets, lighter loads, lighter recoil springs, compensation, barrel weighting, different powder and etc. If by "my hands are real messed up" you mean a congenital condition, there may be no good answer.

What's the primary purpose of the gun? If you just want lighter practice loads, you may be reducing your effectiveness in a self protection situation.

The fact is, you can do a little toward reducing the recoil impulse of a 40 S&W but not much without employing some of the more extreme measure listed initially. Forums are filled with complaints of the 40's recoil being too "snappy". The apparent general resolution to that is to shoot 9mm.

[Shiloh]

I have a LEE 145 grain that I like. I asked LEE some time back why they don't make that boolit in a 6 cav. version. The answer?? Demand.

Shiloh

[Lefty SRH]

NOE cuts a 160gr RN mold that is rather light in recoil in my Glocks with about 3.0gr of CLAYS.

[spfd1903]

I load the Lee TL401-175-TC for a Glock 23 and a Hi-point. Found ACC #5 and ACC # 7 to be accurate and very mangeable recoil.

[Ed_Shot]

I've had good luck with the 150 gr. Lyman 401654 in my G22 w/LW barrel. Mine drop at .404 and 152 gr. I size to .401 with White Label 2500+ lube and use a COAL of 1.100. I've settled on Promo 4.2 at @ 1000 fps. I did not get 100% reliable lock on last round with Promo 4.0 or 4.1. I also have good luck with LEE 401-175-TC (standard lube) 180 gr with Promo 4.0 @ 930 fps but I've come to prefer the lighter boolit.

[fcvan]

When I load the 175 TC or the 145 SWC, I use the same 5 grain load of Unique. This is not max loading by any means, but it cycles and fires quite well. As far as accuracy goes, the SWC in the 40 was like shooting the H&G #68 clone in the 45. Very pretty groups with nice crisp holes. It is a good performer in the Glocks.

My brother didn't care for the SWC profile so I don't cast that many of them. He prefers the TC boolt as it more closely approximates our duty rounds. The only other pistols I've tried the 145 SWC in is a friend's XD and a Taurus PT 740 compact. The 740 is a handful with full house loads, manageable, but you know your shooting big lead in a 20oz gun. Shooting the 145 in the 740 was a noticeable reduction in recoil over the heavier boolit.

[popper]

I dropped down to 165 TC with 4-4.5 W231 that my 8 yr old grandson can handle well. He likes it better than the 9mm. Of course he's proud to shoot the 40 instead of the wimpy 9. Download it with a slower powder and the 175 should be OK.

[Jim..47]

Whats your load with the 175's? How about loading them down some?

5 Gn of Bullseye. I had thought of cutting down on the charge too.

[Jim..47]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll get to reading them all tonight, gotta work now.

[prs]

I'm currently using a 175 Gn. truncated by Lee. This bullet shoots good, but my hands are real messed up and I would like to lighten the recoil a tad.

Jim, I have a sweet soft shooting load for that same 175gr boolit using TrailBoss. My start charge of that powder was the alternative recommended method of 70% of the under boolit powder capacity of the case. That was too mild to avoid snickers and snirks, but did cycle my 23 Glock. I worked the load up and now charge the cases right up to the point or just barely avoiding compression. This is a loading that my daughters like so much that I have trouble keeping them in supply. I like it too for plinking steel targets.

prs

[rsrocket1]

No need to get a different bullet, just a different load. prs' suggestion is good, I'm glad his load of TB worked because I've seen folks who tried it in 9mm and couldn't get the gun to cycle.

A more economical load would be to use a light charge of a faster powder. My favorite light load for the 401-175-TC in my M&P 40 is 3.0g Clays seated to 1.135". I get 760 fps and 100% reliability in cycling the action. Be sure to wear a cap and goggles because the cases fly about 1-2 feet up and sometimes land on your head. Normal loads (4.7g BE or 5-6g Unique) fling the cases about 4-5 feet past my right shoulder. The recoil of the light load almost exactly duplicates a 120g 9mm lead bullet @1100 fps which is what I shoot when I put the 9mm barrel in my M&P. Since Hodgdon won't be selling any more Clays until next year, you can use the same weight of Alliant Clay Dot or 3.0-3.5g Red Dot/Promo instead. RD/Promo will generate lower pressures so you might wind up with slightly sootier cases, but you can fix that by upping the charge a bit (you won't be anywhere near the danger zone until you are close to 5g)

I don't need to change springs because both the M&P 40 and M&P 9 use the same spring so if a 9mm load will cycle the action, an equivalent recoil 40 load will do the same. It was only when I went down to 2.5g RD with the 40 bullet did I start to encounter failures to lock back on the final round.

[Jim..47]

Thanks you kind sirs for sharing that load info for me. That sounds like just the ticket. I just want to preserve what I can of my hands so I can keep shooting.

Will a similar load work well in a 45acp for my 1911 Kimber?

[Bucking the Tiger]

Try the Lee 200 grain SWC( H&G 68 style). It is a very accurate bullet and Lee makes a 6 cavity mold in that size. I use 5 grains Bullseye behind it in a Colt Gold Cup and love it. I seat the bullet till the front driving band is just flush with the neck of the casing to insure smooth feeding. I also use the 145 SWC in the .40S&W and it works well for me.

[fcvan]

1911 Kimber, very sweet! Trying to compare a 1911 in 45 ACP to a Glock 40 is apples to oranges - sorta. I shoot a Springfield Armory 1911 which is a Yugo compared to a Kimber but they have one thing in common. They are both built from steel and heavier empty than a Glock loaded full.

185 Bullseye or softball loads in a 1911 are a cakewalk compared to a Glock. I don't have a 185 grain mold for my 1911 but have a couple of 200 grain molds, SWC, RN and RN HP, each of which work great. The mass of the 1911 really helps resist the opposing force of the boolit.

My standard 45 load is a 230 RN over 6 grains of Unique which is well below max. I replaced the stock recoil spring with an 18 pound Wolf spring which helps. When loading the 200 grain boolits I use the same 6 grain Unique load which performs well with the slightly heavier spring. Lighter loads would require a lighter spring. There is something about the recoil pulse of a 1911 that is so much different, and more pleasurable than other pistols. The 1911 is just smooth.

I would hazard a guess that shooting the Kimber with 200 grain loads would be an all day proposition compared to other pistols. If you were to replace the barrel bushing with a bushing/compensator it would be even smoother. The extra weight coupled with the ports would certainly tame the 45 even more. Heck, you could put weighted magazine floor plates on and increase inertia taming mass which would further turn the Kimber into a pussycat.

As mentioned before, I shoot Glocks. My loads aren't barn-burners but they perform. Another way to reduce the shock to the hands is to change calibers. I bought Wolf conversion barrels for my G22C and G23 which allows me to shoot 9mm from those pistols. The recoil springs aren't changed and the 9mm loads are using 125 grain boolits. I did buy 9mm mags which are kept with the barrels. The point is I'm using the same springs designed for a heavier 40 S&W load for a much lighter 9mm load. By comparison, my 125 grain boolit is launched over 5 grains of Unique. Alliant says 6 grains is max. The point is you can down load your 40, or your 45, to your comfort zone. So long as the weapon still cycles reliably you should be golden. If needs be, you can install lighter springs. Personally, I prefer maintaining standard or slightly stiffer springs so that I don't have to change things when shooting standard or factory personal defense rounds.

If you get to the point where you can't shoot more than a box of standard rounds before discomfort ruins your range day, consider getting a cartridge conversion barrel (such as 9mm) or even a slide replacement conversion to 22lr. That way you can still get in some trigger time with your favorite pistol without the punishment and/or regret at the end of the day. I have some 45 Colt loads that aren't fun after 20 rounds. I also shoot some 45 Colt loads using a 145 grain round ball gallery level charges that are so fun! You can find a good combination for your pistols that will provide the performance you seek without beating up your hands. You just have to play with it some.

[Jim..47]

Try the Lee 200 grain SWC( H&G 68 style). It is a very accurate bullet and Lee makes a 6 cavity mold in that size. I use 5 grains Bullseye behind it in a Colt Gold Cup and love it. I seat the bullet till the front driving band is just flush with the neck of the casing to insure smooth feeding. I also use the 145 SWC in the .40S&W and it works well for me.


Thanks for the reply Tiger. I already have a 200 Gn SWC mold from Lyman. I don't remember the number, and I have tried cutting back on the charge. When I first got the 1911 I was shooting near or at max charge of Blue Dot. That made it a real beast. Nearly as bad as my Contender 44 Mag shooting a Lyman bullet which I think is 240 or 244 Grns. I used to really love shooting big heavy hand guns with heavy bullets and charges. (Maybe I done wore out my hands and wrists? :oops: )

I also had a 45/70 barrel for the Contender pistol using 300 Grn cast or Jacketed for deer hunting. I shot a lot of bullets through that barrel, but I finally took my scope off it last year so I could use it an my .223 barrel. That 45/70 is a real hand gun and a mean hunting gun. Drops in their tracks if you hit them right. I was using 56 Grns of H322, very accurate indeed.

I don't shoot the 45acp much any more but am thinking of following up on some of the ideas of making it a little tamer. I may just change powders on that too, but I really love the 230 Gn. round now bullet, feeds great and also accurate. But I need to try the 200 Grn bullet more too, maybe its just as accurate. Really doesn't matter much as I wave like a young lady waving her Sailer man good bye.

Heck, this has me all worked up, I'm gonna go shoot a bit. :bigsmyl2:

fcvan, I'll reply to you after a bit

[Jim..47]

[QUOTE]1911 Kimber, very sweet! Trying to compare a 1911 in 45 ACP to a Glock 40 is apples to oranges - sorta. I shoot a Springfield Armory 1911 which is a Yugo compared to a Kimber but they have one thing in common. They are both built from steel and heavier empty than a Glock loaded full.

My Kimber has the plastic receiver and metal barrel. I felt kind of bad about that as I really wanted an all metal, but I bought this in Jan 2008 when Obama just took office and it was a hurry up deal before he enacted gun control. Now I am rather happy about as its lighter to hold up.




My standard 45 load is a 230 RN over 6 grains of Unique which is well below max. I replaced the stock recoil spring with an 18 pound Wolf spring which helps. When loading the 200 grain boolits I use the same 6 grain Unique load which performs well with the slightly heavier spring. Lighter loads would require a lighter spring. There is something about the recoil pulse of a 1911 that is so much different, and more pleasurable than other pistols. The 1911 is just smooth.

My load is 6 to 6.5 Gns Bullseye. seems to work real good in the action and accuracy.




I would hazard a guess that shooting the Kimber with 200 grain loads would be an all day proposition compared to other pistols. If you were to replace the barrel bushing with a bushing/compensator it would be even smoother. The extra weight coupled with the ports would certainly tame the 45 even more. Heck, you could put weighted magazine floor plates on and increase inertia taming mass which would further turn the Kimber into a pussycat.

I'll have to give that some thought. I really don't want to change calibers. I have thought about the 9mm, but decided to stay with what I have. I have thought about getting a .22 auto, probably a Browning Buckmark with the 7 1/4 " barrel, but I want to see what I can do with the .40 first.

[Jim..47]

I loaded up some reduced charges for my 40 S&W this afternoon. Using the 175 grain truncated cast bullet I tried loads from .29 Gn, to 3.5 Gn to 4.5 Gns of Bullseye. All worked well as far as functioning goes. Didn't have time to chronograph them or benchrest them for accuracy.

I am very happy :bigsmyl2:

Now I want to try some reduced loads for my 45ACP. This will greatly increase the amount of shooting I can do cause the wrist pain is gone! [smilie=s:

[Adam10mm]

Glad to hear, Jim!

[garym1a2]

try 3.8 gr wst or 4.0 Bullseye in 40 with the 175 TC. Both are very soft. 4.0 of bullseye also works in my 1911.