pin gages to measure cylinder throats

[bearbud]

I would like to buy some individual pin gages to measure cylinder throats on some revolvers.
For example, for the 44 cal I will buy the following set: 0.427, 0.428, 0.429, 0.430, 0.431 and 0.432.
Before I commit myself to the purchase I would like to ask the following questions:
1. Do you any specific brand that you recommend?
2. Should I buy Z gages or ZZ gages?
3. Should the gages I buy be plus or minus?

bearbud

[DougGuy]

I'm about to need some of those same gages as well.

Class ZZ Gages - These gages have an inch tolerance of .0002” and a metric tolerance of .005mm. They are practical where good precision and speed are important.

Class Z Gages - These gages have an inch tolerance of .0001” and a metric tolerance of .0025mm. They are one half the deviation of the ZZ for a better fit.

The set I used once were ZZ and they were plus so you have the diameter + .0002" and I thought it more practical to have minus gauges for doing cylinders. Maybe I am mistaken so don't quote me on that part.

[GLL]

I picked up a Meyer M-2 Z set (minus) for about $30 at a machine tool auction. One of the better buys I have ever made. :)
They run about $260 new.

http://www.fototime.com/6B38557F6AEEE8D/medium800.jpg

Jerry

[dkf]

McMaster sells individual gage pins I bought several from them already. (page 2275) The accuracy is up to you but either Z is more than fine IMO. I would get minus pins. Being .0001" undersize should allow just enough room to get a snug slip fit. So say a .375" pin would just barely start into a .375" hole. The X are available in .0001" size increments however you don't need those.

[alamogunr]

I picked up a Meyer M-2 Z set (minus) for about $30 at a machine tool auction. One of the better buys I have ever made. :)
They run about $260 new.

http://www.fototime.com/6B38557F6AEEE8D/medium800.jpg

Jerry
I picked up a Meyer M2 minus set on ebay a few years ago. I forget how much I paid but it was fairly cheap because 4 or 5 pins were missing. I was lucky that the missing pins were not needed or even close to any guns I own

[theperfessor]

Pin gauges are a relatively goof-proof tool, it either fits or it doesn't. And for most purposes they are fine. But like any gauge they won't tell you exactly what size a hole is, they just tell you whether the hole is bigger or smaller than the gauge. Using two gauges will help narrow down the size to some value that is smaller than the no go gauge and bigger than the go gauge.

I use a set of small hole gauges (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=383&PMCTLG=00) and an outside micrometer. With practice you can measure diameters down to the 0.0002" level of repeatability. And cover a broader range at less cost than a pin gauge set. (The imported set on the linked page is on sale for about $25 right now.)

Different strokes for different folks, it's all good.

[warf73]

I use a set of small hole gauges (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=383&PMCTLG=00) and an outside micrometer. With practice you can measure diameters down to the 0.0002" level of repeatability. And cover a broader range at less cost than a pin gauge set. (The imported set on the linked page is on sale for about $25 right now.)

Different strokes for different folks, it's all good.

I'll agree to disagree with this as its still by feel, pin gauges there is no guessing. For what we are using them for they are a good fit. Granted I agree 100% that for the price hole gauges and mic your in at a nice low cost.

[davegalesr]

I picked up individual + and - pins from Production Tool Supply. They run around 2.25 each and the shipping is reasonable. If they need to backorder any, they only charge the shipping for the initial order and the backordered ones ship as they come in for free.

[DougGuy]

Thanks 'fesser, I think I'll take that lead..

+2 on pin gages, I will likely order enough to do .44 mag and .45 Colt in half thou increments.

Below is a pic of a quickie tool that will show how oval a hole is, which is one thing the pin gage cannot do. Not that it matters but hey it's one more piece of knowledge for us, one less secret guarded by the universe..

Made an offer on one of these from fleabay, it measures .400" to .500" and I think I can modify it and shorten it enough to make an in-the-frame mic for measuring the inside of the bore diameter just ahead of the forcing cone to gauge how much constriction is in the threaded area:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/Starrett830E_zpsc26c82a2.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/Starrett830E_zpsc26c82a2.jpg.html)

[Ed K]

I too bought the surplus American-made set missing a couple of unneeded pins on the cheap. If I ever want to round out the set I can just buy those (but I don't see doing so).

I also use the small hole gages from Starret as well as play with their telescoping gages from time to time...

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/Precision-Measuring-Tools/Precision-Hand-Tools/Hole-Gages/Telescoping-Gages/579A

[alamogunr]

Thanks 'fesser, I think I'll take that lead..

+2 on pin gages, I will likely order enough to do .44 mag and .45 Colt in half thou increments.

Below is a pic of a quickie tool that will show how oval a hole is, which is one thing the pin gage cannot do. Not that it matters but hey it's one more piece of knowledge for us, one less secret guarded by the universe..

Made an offer on one of these from fleabay, it measures .400" to .500" and I think I can modify it and shorten it enough to make an in-the-frame mic for measuring the inside of the bore diameter just ahead of the forcing cone to gauge how much constriction is in the threaded area:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/Starrett830E_zpsc26c82a2.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/Starrett830E_zpsc26c82a2.jpg.html)

I have a set of 4 similar to the one shown except by Mitutoyo. I got it from a machinist at work when they upgraded instruments. It is shown here: http://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/Small-Hole-Gage-Set-Series-154-C1536.aspx

I was never confident that I was getting the absolute best measurement. That is why I decided to get the plug gages. Possibly more practice would have given me that confidence.

[theperfessor]

DougGuy, the set I mentioned covers the range from 0.125" to 0.500". The tool shown on the nice photograph you posted is the largest one of the set, although it is as the box states a "short type". I think the tools in the set cover 0.125" to 0.200", 0.200" to 0.300", 0.300" to 0.400", and 0.400" to 0.500" (as shown).

I agree completely that it takes a while to develop the proper feel to use this type of tool, and that pin gauges are plenty accurate enough for gun work and a lot easier and more fool proof to use by inexperienced people. Pin type go/nogo gauges are extensively used in industry for that very reason, they are quick to use and can be set at the minimum and maximum size for a hole. I can teach somebody to use a go/nogo gauge in just a few minutes, it takes a lot longer to learn how to properly use a small hole gauge and micrometer and a lot longer even if you know how to use one to measure a hole. On a fast moving production line you want an answer in seconds, not minutes.

I mentioned these as an alternative for folks that may not be aware that such a thing exists. We all have recommended that even basic reloaders obtain a decent 0 - 1" outside micrometer, and some folks on a limited budget may not be able to afford a complete set of pin gauges. Assuming that someone has the mike already, $25 for a set of small hole gauges may be within budget where a more expensive and extensive set of pin gauges may not.

One other reason why I like small hole gauges - you are using the same mike to measure the gauge as you use to measure the bullet you plan to shoot through the hole; even if your mike is off a little you can still get good comparative measurements by using the same tool to measure everything.

Like I said, it's all good. As a machinist I have all kinds of gauges and measuring tools available to use, but I still fall back on my small hole gauges (and telescoping gauges for 0.500" to 6.000" measurements) when I need them. I can go out to a job site with a boxed set of 0 - 6" outside mikes and a set of small hole and telescoping gauges and a 0 - 12" set of calipers and take care of 99% of my measurement problems.

In any case, the reloader/caster/gun nut that takes the time to measure is WAY ahead of the guy that doesn't and just assumes everything is OK.

[Larry Gibson]

I picked up a Meyer M-2 Z set (minus) for about $30 at a machine tool auction. One of the better buys I have ever made. :)
They run about $260 new.

http://www.fototime.com/6B38557F6AEEE8D/medium800.jpg

Jerry

I picked up a similar set used numerous years back. Was/is missing a few pins but it had all the correct ones I needed. Got it for $40. Well worth having. If you've a lot of guns or do gunwork the set pictured is well worth it even at the price mentioned, good buy GLL.

Larry Gibson

[GLL]

Larry:

I think the reason nobody bid on this set was the outside of the box was covered with DyKem layout dye. Three or four of the pins also had dye on them but it came off with acetone ! I sanded to box top and it even looks pretty ! :)
I paid my $30 and ran ! :)
I use these pins on a regular basis so it was indeed a great buy.

Jerry

[Larry Gibson]

Of course you ran to the local PD and turned yourself in for theft..........:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[Cosmiceyes]

Removing Dykem blue from something is not theft! :)'s


Of course you ran to the local PD and turned yourself in for theft..........:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[Mal Paso]

I just checked YOUR Production Tool Supply and they have a set of 250 (.251-.500") minus gauges for $56.

They probably won't be perfect. I have at least 1 wrong pin in my set from another supplier but you should always double check with a micrometer.

Once I had a set of pin gauges I started measuring Dies, Chambers, Bores....

[nickE10mm]

I picked up individual + and - pins from Production Tool Supply. They run around 2.25 each and the shipping is reasonable. If they need to backorder any, they only charge the shipping for the initial order and the backordered ones ship as they come in for free.

This post just saved me over 60 bucks. Thanks!

[Gun site]

You can buy pin gauges at grainger for a couple of bucks each.

[9.3X62AL]

I just checked YOUR Production Tool Supply and they have a set of 250 (.251-.500") minus gauges for $56.

They probably won't be perfect. I have at least 1 wrong pin in my set from another supplier but you should always double check with a micrometer.

Once I had a set of pin gauges I started measuring Dies, Chambers, Bores....

Buckshot got me interested in owning pin gauge sets a few years ago, and I use mine quite a bit. I micrometer-verify each prior to its first use, but to date the China-made sets I own haven't been off-spec among the 40+ sizes I've tried. None of my work requires accuracy to "tenths", so the pin gauges as "go/no-go" devices suffice for my needs, which largely consist of getting boolits to fit in throats and barrels and act correctly once in place.

ETA--Once equipped with such tooling, you will get some surprises from their use. More surprises result when you take your findings and verify same with SAAMI. Just sayin'......

[bhn22]

I'm a fossil, I admit it. I still use soft lead slugs and a micrometer. I've found enough instances of oblong revolver throats and other irregularities in the past to want more information than just the inside diameter of a revolver throat at its tightest point.

[swheeler]

My pin gages are a little older but American made, Vermont gage I have .061-.250 and .251-.500. They are handy to have around.http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/kmw3291/251-500_zpsfb7d96d2.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/kmw3291/media/251-500_zpsfb7d96d2.jpg.html)

[andremajic]

Meyer gauge sells individual pins for about 2.60 each, a little more for the larger sizes, but you have to make a minimum order of 20.00

No problem if you have multiple guns.

The only thing I didn't do was order one of my missing pins from my set back when I did my 20.00 order! Anyone got an extra .073 around? When you're missing a couple pins, it's like trying to find a missing baseball card for your set! (not like I'll ever use it, but it's bugging me!)

Andy.

[alamogunr]

When you're missing a couple pins, it's like trying to find a missing baseball card for your set! (not like I'll ever use it, but it's bugging me!)

Andy.

I have a Meyer set I got on Ebay. There are 6 pins missing(that's why it was so cheap)but none of them will ever be of any use to me so when I finish using the set I close the lid and put it back in the drawer. Out of sight, out of mind. Otherwise, I would be obsessing about the missing gages.