Load-Master options

[Jonathan]

I'm thinking of buying a Load-Master. I'd like information about the options that are offered for this press? Thanks.

[mac1911]

Lee ? I dont mind lee products for the most part. Then again im the "im going to make this SOB work" type. I also have up graded to "better presses" and the lee's have found a use one way or another.

http://loadmastervideos.com/ all you can ever know about the load master

[seagiant]

Hi,
An option you might want to look at for almost the same money is a used Dillon RL-450! This would be one in original configeration with manual primer and powder feed! A LOT better press IMO!

[44Vaquero]

Go to the Lee web site, everything you want to know is there.

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-presses/progressive-presses/load-master-reloading-press/

It is a fairly complete unit as purchased.

[dragonrider]

When they where first introduced I bought one, worst mistake I ever made. Almost gave it away six months later. I use and like a lot of Lee equipment but that is a ***.

[zuke]

When they where first introduced I bought one, worst mistake I ever made. Almost gave it away six months later. I use and like a lot of Lee equipment but that is a ***.

They had a lot of problem's with that first generation of press's.

[seagiant]

When they where first introduced I bought one, worst mistake I ever made. Almost gave it away six months later. I use and like a lot of Lee equipment but that is a ***.

Hey DR,
Don't candy coat it! Tell us what you really think!!!:violin:

Shoot,they haven't made a loader I won't play with,but the primer system on the loadmaster I HATE so much that I don't want to mess with it! YMMV!

[NTD]

I couldn't stand mine. I'll take the Lee Classic Turret over it any day. With all the headaches it caused me I think I load more per hour on average with the turret than the load master.

[RobS]

Loadmasterzone is the place to go for modifications and trouble shooting. http://loadmastervideos.com/ go to the forum top left. If you are a person who wants it right straight out of the box then the Loadmaster probably isn't going to get it done. I have two Loadmasters and they work just fine once set up properly but then again I've done a few mods to them and make sure to mount it on a solid platform and there has been little problems though thousands and thousands of rounds. I'm a tinkerer by nature so the Lee Loadmaster works into my framework.

[DougGuy]

+1 on RobS advice.

I have a loadmaster, it's easiest for me to prime off the press and not even fight with the loadmaster primer feed. I even tried it just priming brass and kicking the cases back out and it skipped a few, turned a few sideways, and I was careful to set it up right. I went back to using a hand primer and loading primed cases into the collator.

The other thing is the powder measure. None of the Lee powder measures work all that great without a lot of tweaking, but the one that comes with the loadmaster is just total JUNK. Put a Dillon powder measure in it's place and rock on.

Those are the two weakest points of the loadmaster. Other than that, I think it's a robust piece of equipment that for the money is a good value. It may not be a Dillon but at the end of the day it comes down to who's running it and how well they set it up that makes up for any shortcomings it may have by design.

This is my heavily reworked original style Lee Auto Disk powder measure, with a custom CNC machined adjustable charge bar, the best powder measure I have ever used bar none, but just to illustrate the level of tweaking and redesigning that is necessary to make things work in the real world like they do on some engineer's desk, here's a pic of it:

(My son did the CNC machining for this, we both put our heads together on it and this was my Father's Day present this year..)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/DSC01658_zps6c1bb757.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/DSC01658_zps6c1bb757.jpg.html)

[fredj338]

JMO, if the point of buying a progressive is to make a lot of ammo quickly, avoid anything from Lee. I use some Lee products, but their "regressives" are just a joke. Most guys are getting about 300rds/hr on either the LM or 1000. Manually priming or using a powder measure off the press defeats the entire point of a progressive, one pull of the handle for one round.
My manually indexing 550B will easily do 400rds/hr. My 650 will easily do 700rds/hr. Sure they cost more, but they do the job intended & do it easily & without problems. Few of us need ANY progressive but if you want one, buy the best, that is Dillon. The Hornady LNL is an option, is an ok press, but equipped the same, it's only about $50 cheaper than a 650 & it's lacking in several key functions. So if you want the best progressive for the $$, buy Dillon IMO. A 650 with all the bells & whistles for one caliber, call it $1100, over 20yrs of reloading, that is less than $4.60/month!!!!!! Your aspirin bill for the headaches a Lee will cause you is worth that much!

[kd185]

i recommend prepiming before running through the load-master

[RobS]

People who have the mechanical aptitude to work on the press just a little, set it up properly and are willing to do a few mods then one can have a full progressive with the priming unit that does work. I even purchased a re-manufactured one from Lee for less than $200 with a die set, powder measure etc. For priming, I put a die in the priming station to keep the shell plate down and keeps the brass centered. I usually put a lyman M die in the priming station or a sizing die without the de-priming pin.

[Firebricker]

Jonathan, I wound up getting rid of my LM but while I had it the best thing I bought for it was the case collater. It was inexpensive and you just dump in case shake it a little and your case feeder tubes are full. I would also recommend a tool head for each caliber it will save you lots of time. FB

[Jonathan]

Firebricker. Thanks. The pic in the catalog shows it with the collator. Good to know it doesn't come with one. Doesn't list one for rifle cartridges. I don't see anything called a `tool head'? Would that be a `turret' or shell plate?

[DougGuy]

Turret.

[Firebricker]

Firebricker. Thanks. The pic in the catalog shows it with the collator. Good to know it doesn't come with one. Doesn't list one for rifle cartridges. I don't see anything called a `tool head'? Would that be a `turret' or shell plate?


Jonathan, turret is what I meant I use a 550 now and they call it a toolhead. As far as the collator they only work for handgun cartridges and you might want to double check if it comes with one. I'm sure mine didn't come with one but it could have been a packaging mistake. The shell plate is what holds your case in place same a single stage shell holder but with five at a time. FB

[DLCTEX]

The newest edition of primer trough has cured priming problems on both LM presses for me. I leave each of them set up for large or small primers. The use of a size die in the hole above priming helps center the case and is also a big plus. I have fewer priming problems now than a friend who has a Hornady LNL.

[Jonathan]

Firebricker i'll put Turret on my list and look into the case collator.
DLCTEX. Thanks for the reply. I'd like info about the accessories for the cartrtridges I load for. Sounds like you know something about them?

[Moonie]

I have a Loadmaster and I love it. I load 11 different calibers on it. With the latest priming systems priming on the press works well.

I do agree however, if you do not have some mechanical ability you should avoid it, in fact, you should probably avoid progressives in general.

[r1kk1]

I do agree however, if you do not have some mechanical ability you should avoid it, in fact, you should probably avoid progressives in general.


Mechanical ability such as what? I'm curious. I set my press on the bench, adjusted dies, go to work. The same with any single stage I own.

Take care

r1kk1

[garym1a2]

I brought a loadmaster two years ago, BIG mistake. The primer feed system just does not work! To use my press for 9mm/40s&W I have to prime off the press.
You also have to keep a close eye on the powder measure, sometimes it does not drop powder with Bullseye and it also spills a lot of power when I use WST.
The auo-index does not work so well anymore.
But, on the bright side the case feed works very good for 40S&W.
You are much better buying a Lee Classic cast or a Dillon 550B.
Notice on my bench I have 4 lee presses, the classic cast and classic cast turrent presses get all the work as they are good solid machines.
76399
P.S., even my cat does not like the loadmaster!

[tankdriver]

I have a LM, it took some time to learn it. I reload, 40, 45, 223, and 308 on it. Next going to try 7mm Mauser, 9mm, and 30 M1.

I gave up on the powder measure on rifle and use my RCBS with their case activated die. Still use the Lee measure with pistol.

[Honorstick]

I just don't get why so many people bash the loadmaster, I load just about everything on it and it has never given me any issues at all and I don't even have the newer primer system for it yet. Take some time to set it up right from the start and it should work just fine. I even use the bullet feeder for the 9mm.

[timtonya]

The trashcan?? I had a LM and it frustrated me to no end. I even had the new primer system too. I got smart and sold it on flebay. I then ordered my 550b. It took 9 weeks and 5 shipments but I'm happy I did it.

[Vinne]

Had a few problems with my loadmaster at first but took my time and worked through it. The priming is fine if you take your time and don't rush it. Make sure the timing is correct before you load anything. That is the main thing that will cause priming problems. Next, make sure you use the right powder measure with the right cases ie Perfect Powder Measure for rifle and Auto-Disk Powder Measure for pistol. PP measure will not handle smaller pistol charges and the DP measure will spill less powder if the auto nuts are tight holding snug the charge disk. Even then using very fine powders will leak a little so bite the bullet or change powder. Last, order a few extra of the small parts like the primer slider and trough cover. I never was able to get the bullet feeder to work on the Load Master or the Pro 1000 so I just do it the old fashion way...by hand.

Whatever you pick you can't go wrong. Even if you start with a single stage, you will move up to a progressive to increase the output. After all less time reloading means more time on the range.

[fredj338]

After all less time reloading means more time on the range.
And this is why you buy better gear, to spend less time reloading. I need all of 25min to setup & produce 300rds of 45acp for a weekend match. Money I can make, time I can not. Life is too short for ugly women & marginal reloading gear.[smilie=p:

[44Vaquero]

Fredj338, I agree that Dillion and even Hornady's progressives are fine high quality tools capable of producing large amounts of ammunition in short amounts of time. I have to call you on your production rate claim of "25min to setup & produce 300rds of 45acp" Which works out to 720+ rounds an hour! Even the most ardent Dillion owner 's rarely claim production rates over 500 to 600 rph. I will also point out that you revised your original post which stated only "20 minutes" and that works out to 900+ rounds an hour!!

Now, I realize that we all brag from time to time and have been guilty of padding a tall tail myself included. But in this case it is disingenuous to suggest an overly inflated production claim attributed to an already admitted quality piece of tooling. When a new user purchases a progressive he may well wonder why he is incapable of hitting the fantastic numbers you claim!

[jmort]

People tend to exaggerate to prove a point. Sometimes it does not add up. The original point may be valid, i.e. that quality equipment can help, and that is axiomatic.

[seagiant]

Hi,
I don't "speed" reload and I understand everyones point on this,ie. quick but safe! I have in the past recommended the Dillon 450 in the original configeration with manual powder and primer feeds. I'm willing to bet that I could put out as many rounds with my 450 as someone that considers himself good with a LM!

This is because the 450 has no hangups what so ever! If you had your primer tubes loaded up I see no reason you couldn't throw out some excellent QUALITY ammo in a hurry! I can't stand a progressive loader I have to baby WHILE I'm trying to load! Cleaning and maintance is another thing!

[44Vaquero]

Seagiant , I agree with you. I just feel the 700 to 900 number is a little unrealistic.

PS. I am currently trying to buy a gent's 450 that I found locally, he is just a bit high on the price just yet.

[NoZombies]

I have and use a loadmaster and a Dillon 550.

This thread reminds me, I need to sell the loadmaster and buy more conversions for the 550...

For me the loadmaster has been terribly inconsistent. I refuse to prime off the press on a progressive. (Speed is why I own the darn thing after all!) and the Lee failure rate is simply too high for me to be happy with it, even with the new priming assembly.

[fredj338]

Yeah, I thought I would add time to put two primer tubes in & check the measure. Seriously, you can go faster for a 100rd run with the powder measure verified. Going moderately fast but still visually checking each powder drop, 7 min for 100, easy. IMO, it's not sustainable over 1hr though. So instead of claiming 850rds/hr, I have actually slapped the stop watch on for 1hr & easily get 700rds. That is only 1 handle pull every 5.1sec, pretty sedate. yes it's easily done. No the Lee or LNL can not come close for a 1hr run. It's not bragging, just fact.
So when everyone complains about reloading time, buy better gear. The more valuable your time, the more $$ you will need to spend to save that valuable time. A Lee won't do it, neither will a tuned LNL, a 650 will.

[fredj338]

Let me ask you, have you loaded on one? I would bet no. At 5.1sec per handle pull, that is quite slow; 1001, 1002, etc. The only thing you are doing w/ a case fed 650 is placing a bullet & pulling the handle. if you can't do that in 5sec, then I don't know what to tell you. 700rds/hr is easily done on a case fed 650 with 7 primer tubes loaded & ready to go. Although it only takes about 1min to load a tube, I do it watching tv. That 700rds/hr even includes the occasional stop to clear a sp 45 case or a case that occasionally flips in the feeder.
Before you doubt me, go try a 15min run on a 650 & then get back to me. I know guys that go faster, but I don't want to pull the handle much faster than once in 5sec. You guys loading on Lee regressives & the LNL just have no idea what a progressive is supposed to run like. FWIW, I can do 400/hr on my 550 w/ no feeder. That is one handle pull every 9sec! I could almost have lunch! I rarely ever reload for more than 30min though. Mostly because I don't have to. Seriously, if the object is to load a bunch of quality ammo quickly, you have to have the best gear. If you have lots of time, then a Lee may work for you, but I don't see the point. A Lee CT can do 200rds/hr, few Lee LM or 1000 owners can claim much faster than that. So while I can recommend the LCT I would NEVER recommend any Lee progressive. Most of us do not need any progressive, but for those that truly do, nothing really beats the 650 w/ case feeder, but maybe a 1050. Even the 550B is more capable than the Lee & can do anything you need a press to do.


Seagiant , I agree with you. I just feel the 700 to 900 number is a little unrealistic.

PS. I am currently trying to buy a gent's 450 that I found locally, he is just a bit high on the price just yet.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Not trying to pile on, but I can load 100 pistol rounds on my old 550s in about 8 minutes. I don't go particularly fast either. Now... I do slow down some if I'm doing .223. It takes longer for the powder to completely drop.

[garym1a2]

I can hit that 200/hr rate with the Lee Classic cast turrent, I once hit 240. But after about an hour I get tired as that's 800 pulls on the handle.
Having a Loadmaster I still think they are a waste and I have never been able to prime on mine. I do know that the 550B is so easy to use even a novice like my little brother can and does use one to make good ammo fast.


Let me ask you, have you loaded on one? I would bet no. At 5.1sec per handle pull, that is quite slow; 1001, 1002, etc. The only thing you are doing w/ a case fed 650 is placing a bullet & pulling the handle. if you can't do that in 5sec, then I don't know what to tell you. 700rds/hr is easily done on a case fed 650 with 7 primer tubes loaded & ready to go. Although it only takes about 1min to load a tube, I do it watching tv. That 700rds/hr even includes the occasional stop to clear a sp 45 case or a case that occasionally flips in the feeder.
Before you doubt me, go try a 15min run on a 650 & then get back to me. I know guys that go faster, but I don't want to pull the handle much faster than once in 5sec. You guys loading on Lee regressives & the LNL just have no idea what a progressive is supposed to run like. FWIW, I can do 400/hr on my 550 w/ no feeder. That is one handle pull every 9sec! I could almost have lunch! I rarely ever reload for more than 30min though. Mostly because I don't have to. Seriously, if the object is to load a bunch of quality ammo quickly, you have to have the best gear. If you have lots of time, then a Lee may work for you, but I don't see the point. A Lee CT can do 200rds/hr, few Lee LM or 1000 owners can claim much faster than that. So while I can recommend the LCT I would NEVER recommend any Lee progressive. Most of us do not need any progressive, but for those that truly do, nothing really beats the 650 w/ case feeder, but maybe a 1050. Even the 550B is more capable than the Lee & can do anything you need a press to do.

[fredj338]

Not trying to pile on, but I can load 100 pistol rounds on my old 550s in about 8 minutes. I don't go particularly fast either. Now... I do slow down some if I'm doing .223. It takes longer for the powder to completely drop.

Exactly!!!

[Honorstick]

A Lambragini (how ever you spell it) goes faster than my truck too but I wouldn't trade you the truck. Both reliable, both get you from point A to point B ------ who cares. I like my LM, it does what I want it to, for me it's reliable and I enjoy the time I spend at the bench using it and, although I have never timed a run and probably won't, I am more than happy with the production rate I get and I'll only go blue if I can find one cheap. I won't bash the Dillon presses as I have never used one and when I went progressive, I couldn't afford a dillon with two kids in college so I went with the LM and have never regretted my choice.

[fredj338]

A Lambragini (how ever you spell it) goes faster than my truck too but I wouldn't trade you the truck. Both reliable, both get you from point A to point B ------ who cares. .
With all due respect, not even a close comparison. The point of any progressive; to make lots of ammo in the smallest amount of time. If all I wanted to do was reload, get from point A-B, I would have stayed with the ss press & never bought a progressive. I am not bashing Lee, well sort of, but the attitude that somehow they "all do the same thing" & they just do not.
Cost is also relative, but if I spend 1 hr making lets say 600rds, for the doubters, & I save $10/100 doing it, that is $60/hr net that I am making. If it's only 200rds, well for $20/hr, I might as well work & just buy ammo. For many, time is truely $$, so buy better gear. At 700rds/hr, my official production rate, I save $10/100 or $70/hr net (9mm ammo, more on 45s). That means I would have to gross $120/hr to NOT make it worth my time & I do not make that kind of $$. The cost of fully rigged 650 is less than $1100. Over a 20yr reloading career, that press cost me a whopping $4.60 per month!!!! Who can NOT afford $5 per month? Just some realistic numbers for those doubting the time savings. Money I can make, time I can not.:Bright idea:

[r1kk1]

Money I can make, time I can not.

+1

r1kk1

[seagiant]

Seagiant , I agree with you. I just feel the 700 to 900 number is a little unrealistic.

PS. I am currently trying to buy a gent's 450 that I found locally, he is just a bit high on the price just yet.

Hi 44,
If he will get close on the price you want,I would say get it! Sale the LM and don't look back! I KNOW you will love it! Also if you want more automation you can convert along as you go to a 550 style! An open option anyway,and still quality!!!

[Honorstick]

but the attitude that somehow they "all do the same thing" & they just do not.
:Bright idea:

Also with due respect, they do "do the same thing" an empty case goes in at the start and a finished round comes out the other end. If speed were the only concern wouldn't we all own commercial loading machines? I am not bashing any of the machines.

One of the reasons I like my LM is I can have my different dies all setup and ready to go for easy changeover (I know I could just use a turret) and once the cycle is going a loaded round drops with every pull of the handle. I don't need the speed but I like the convenience, so saying that the whole reason for a progressive is to load the most ammo in the shortest time is somewhat misleading.

It really does boil down to what a person wants to do with their machine and making it simply about speed is not very helpfull for people considering their options for a progressive.

My LM has loaded many thousands of fine rounds that have punced many holes in paper, put many deer and varmints on the ground and has given me "ZERO" problems or headaches and loads at a speed that is entirely acceptable to me for a lot less up front cost.

Your reasons for tooting the blue horn are fine for what you want from your press and that is just fine but those same reasons do not apply to everybody. I may be on an island all by myself but I did not buy my progressive simply based on how fast I could load ammo, there was also some other criteria I had in mind as well, including but not limited to cost to set up for many different calibers and weighing out the pros and cons I settled on the Lee and am very happy with my purchase.

This is just my .02 cents and I strongly appologize if I have offended anyone.

Bill

[44Vaquero]

Also with due respect, they do "do the same thing" an empty case goes in at the start and a finished round comes out the other end. If speed were the only concern wouldn't we all own commercial loading machines? I am not bashing any of the machines.

One of the reasons I like my LM is I can have my different dies all setup and ready to go for easy changeover (I know I could just use a turret) and once the cycle is going a loaded round drops with every pull of the handle. I don't need the speed but I like the convenience, so saying that the whole reason for a progressive is to load the most ammo in the shortest time is somewhat misleading.

It really does boil down to what a person wants to do with their machine and making it simply about speed is not very helpfull for people considering their options for a progressive.

My LM has loaded many thousands of fine rounds that have punced many holes in paper, put many deer and varmints on the ground and has given me "ZERO" problems or headaches and loads at a speed that is entirely acceptable to me for a lot less up front cost.

Your reasons for tooting the blue horn are fine for what you want from your press and that is just fine but those same reasons do not apply to everybody. I may be on an island all by myself but I did not buy my progressive simply based on how fast I could load ammo, there was also some other criteria I had in mind as well, including but not limited to cost to set up for many different calibers and weighing out the pros and cons I settled on the Lee and am very happy with my purchase.

This is just my .02 cents and I strongly appologize if I have offended anyone.

Bill

+1 on this! Having just returned from a mini vacation in Ludington Mi, I am rested and rejuvenated and had plenty of time to formulate my reply but Honorstick beat me to it!

I will ad the following:
To those in the "Blue Crew" I see no need to continually denigrate those people who for one reason or another have not chosen Dillion on their primary re-loader. Truthfully I am perfectly happy poking along at 400 to 500 rph and not having to listen to that god awful case feeder turning itself on and off. As for reloading on a 650 with all the bells and whistle's, I would certainly hope that for $1126.55 that it does always run rings around $250.00 LM if not you most certainty have been gipped.

I guess my finial thought about this would be this: The consistent "Were Better Then You" and "There's something inherently wrong with anyone who doesn't reload on a Dillion" attitude is tiresome at best and elitist at worst! You turn off more people then you encourage. It reminds me of why I declined joining a local gun club 15 years ago. I could not stand the elitist BS the shot gunners in the club were always spouting and funny thing was more then once or twice I out shot them with a borrowed Remington 1100!

Well that's my added 2 cents!

Jim P.

[Honorstick]

Jim

You should have come a little further north, we could have done lunch or something and formulated a team response. :)

[Alvarez Kelly]

I'm a member of the blue crew I guess. I have two RL550Bs side by side on my reloading bench. I also own a Lee SS press. It's the first press I ever bought. Still have it. Still use it. I sold all my XL650s and Super 1050s. Although I miss the 1050, I don't need the speed. I actually prefer the manual index of the 550s.

There have been so many posts about how bad the LM was for individuals trying to use them, it is easy to forget some people actually get them to work as they were designed.

I realize people have to makes choices. Finances obviously affects that choice. If a reloader has little time, but plenty of disposable income, a Dillon is an easy choice. If a reloader has lots of time, and money is tight, the LM is an option.

Everyone makes their choice, pays their money, and lives with the results.

What is right for me may not be right for the next guy.

[Honorstick]

That's pretty much the point I've been trying to make Alvarez but just bashing one press or the other doesn't really help a person decide what is really acceptable to them. I have never loaded on a Dillon so I have nothing bad to say about it but I'm sure there is probably something that can go wrong with them from time to time, as a mechanical design engineer I can assure you that no one short of God has ever invented a perfect machine, they all need some maintainence, adjustments and they will all wear out over time.

Constructive advice is what people are actually asking for with posts like this.

All the bashing reminds me of the political races we see in this country, all they want to do is bash the other guy instead of stating what's good about themselves.

[44Vaquero]

Honorstick, How far up are you? We love Ludington my entire family stays in the state park on the dunes of Lake Michigan, 25 or 30 of us this year!

Alvarez, You hit the nail on the head. I can't say Dillion has been ruled out of my future, just my needs are different. I fall into line a thinking similar to Seagiant's, he has gotten me interested in acquiring a DL450. Being all manual they appeal to me.

Many presses appeal to me for different reasons, sometimes just the oddity of them i.e. the Lee Automator I am currently putting together just because I have never seen one before!

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well, hope I'm not the bad guy! My advice to get a used Dillon 450 is good in my mind for almost the same money as a NEW LM! My problem with the LM is the primer feed. I used the LEE hand primer for years (decades?) and was happy with it,but that was because I held it in my hand and could manipulate it and tweek it as I used it!

The primer feed on the LM is basicly the same type but is fixed and from my experience would think it would be problematic! I could be wrong! Admittedly I have never loaded on a LM,just enjoy my manual 300's and 450,thought I would mention another way to go!

[Alvarez Kelly]

That's pretty much the point I've been trying to make Alvarez but just bashing one press or the other doesn't really help a person decide what is really acceptable to them. I have never loaded on a Dillon so I have nothing bad to say about it but I'm sure there is probably something that can go wrong with them from time to time, as a mechanical design engineer I can assure you that no one short of God has ever invented a perfect machine, they all need some maintainence, adjustments and they will all wear out over time.

Constructive advice is what people are actually asking for with posts like this.

All the bashing reminds me of the political races we see in this country, all they want to do is bash the other guy instead of stating what's good about themselves.

I see some good natured ribbing. I think you are the only one taking this so serious.

But, since you mention advice... I have an observation... In all my years of actually paying attention... I think I have heard of 3, maybe 4, different people say they had trouble getting a Dillon to work for them. I don't know the number, but you sure can't say that about the LM. I counted 5 or 6 just in this thread. And some who heap praise on the LM admit they can't prime on the press. For others, everything seems to work fine. Is it a Lee quality control issue? Who knows.

Even if purchase price was a major consideration, I could not, in good conscious, recommend the LM to anyone unless they professed a high degree of mechanical aptitude. I have no reservations, however, about recommending a Dillon Square Deal or a RL550 to any reloader who can produce quality ammo on a single stage press. The XL650 and Super 1050 might be a different matter, but that would depend on the reloader.

[44Vaquero]

Alvarez, In all honestly there are many people I would never recommend a progressive to regardless of who makes it! ;-)

My Grandfather thinks all progressives are abomination's forged in the 7th level of hell! He is 91 years old and in respect to his age and accomplishments I do not argue the point with him. He uses 3 O frames arranged along his wall with a Lyman #55 between #2 and #3! His version of a assembly line I guess. He has all the time in the world and a good supply of money too, makes no difference.

I do savior every minute I get spend with him in his "office" taking an God awful amount of time to 2 or 3 boxes of 9mm or .38's. That's priceless!

[Alvarez Kelly]

Alvarez, In all honestly there are many people I would never recommend a progressive to regardless of who makes it! ;-)

My Grandfather thinks all progressives are abomination's forged in the 7th level of hell! He is 91 years old and in respect to his age and accomplishments I do not argue the point with him. He uses 3 O frames arranged along his wall with a Lyman #55 between #2 and #3! His version of a assembly line I guess. He has all the time in the world and a good supply of money too, makes no difference.

I do savior every minute I get spend with him in his "office" taking an God awful amount of time to 2 or 3 boxes of 9mm or .38's. That's priceless!

I understand... Enjoy those times while you still have them!

[Honorstick]

Honorstick, How far up are you? We love Ludington my entire family stays in the state park on the dunes of Lake Michigan, 25 or 30 of us this year!

I live up by "the other dunes" on Lake Michigan, about 30 miles due west of Traverse City. We usually spend a week each summer at a campground in Manistee with the wife's family, this year we actually took some of them down to Silver Lake to take a dune ride since they had never done it before.

Alvarez, sorry if it sounds like I'm taking it too serious, don't mean to come off that way. :oops: I don't mind a little good natured ribbing if that's how it was all intended. I really do not have anything against any of the presses out there.

seagiant, there is nothing wrong with making a suggestion like that, it could be very good advice that might help someone make their final decision. As for priming on the LM, I know I have read where quite a few people have issues with it, I personally have never had an issue with it, maybe I'm the only one out there that's been that fortunate. :bigsmyl2:

Bill

[NoZombies]

The reality is, I worked with 2 loadmasters for several years, and didn't go blue until the 550 landed in my lap. The guy who owned it before me had inherited it, and had never reloaded before. he tried setting it up, and couldn't (there's another one for you AK!) so he traded it, along with 4 toolheads and a half a dozen caliber conversions, to me for 2 boxes of factory .357 ammo. He set the price, and I certainly wasn't going to complain!

Even after getting the 550, I still used the Lee for a long while, but the priming has been such a problem for me that I've given up, and haven't bothered taking it out of storage from when we moved last year. I still use a lot of lee products, and generally see the value that they provide. As far as presses go, the loadmaster itself isn't half bad, but the priming, even with the new arrangement, has been an enormous headache for me.

[Alvarez Kelly]

The reality is ...didn't go blue until the 550 landed in my lap. The guy who owned it before me had inherited it, and had never reloaded before. he tried setting it up, and couldn't (there's another one for you AK!) so he traded it...

I counted that one already. You have told the story a few times. :-)

And I counted seagiant, who hated his 550, but now owns 3 Dillon presses... :-)

[fredj338]

To those in the "Blue Crew" I see no need to continually denigrate those people who for one reason or another have not chosen Dillion on their primary re-loader. Truthfully I am perfectly happy poking along at 400 to 500 rph and not having to listen to that god awful case feeder turning itself on and off. As for reloading on a 650 with all the bells and whistle's, I would certainly hope that for $1126.55 that it does always run rings around $250.00 LM if not you most certainty have been gipped.

I guess my finial thought about this would be this: The consistent "Were Better Then You" and "There's something inherently wrong with anyone who doesn't reload on a Dillion" attitude is tiresome at best and elitist at worst! You turn off more people then you encourage. It reminds me of why I declined joining a local gun club 15 years ago. I could not stand the elitist BS the shot gunners in the club were always spouting and funny thing was more then once or twice I out shot them with a borrowed Remington 1100!

Well that's my added 2 cents!

Jim P.

I am contunously amazed that people have such self esteem issues they feel pursecuted when someone points out some simple facts. I don't recall anyone denigrating anyone for their choice of gear, yet you are the one name calling. However facts are facts, dismissing them to somehow make you feel better, hmmm.
Me, I don't really care what anyone reloads on or how they spend their time. Nothing elite about it. I am simply stating facts of the equip. Your choice will be just that, your choice.

[r1kk1]

I have lurked on many threads in this forum and others. I have seen threads on modifying tools to work as intended or to clean up flashing, tool marks, etc., of what a quality control person should be doing before it left the factory. I have seen people bashed for lacking mechanical ability to fix and keep a tool running. I have seen threads where it's ok to accept quality of this nature in tools. I have seen validation with tool problems associated with price. I have read one reloading manual where the author bashes everyone else and the self promoting hype gets tiring - until someone introduced me to some of Herter's writings. I have seen in print "largest ram in the industry" or other claims. I have seen the pacific case trimmer come back and promoted as a new press mounted trimmer. There will be threads that say it originated here but that ain't so. History repeats itself. I guess I'm getting too old. I just buy a tool and use it as intended. Don't want to waste time fixing, QC stuff that should have been done at the factory level by honing or cleaning casting flash. I just want to load ammo. I want to believe in red but three decades of experiences I cannot. Not bashing just stating observations and experiences.

There has be one company who has done progressives continuously since they started. That's all they do. I wait for something new year after year and nothing really new appears but two versions of their most popular press and now one is gone. I think the last thing I seen new is the shotshell press on an existing frame. I've had blue since the 80s. Not a problem to be had.

I think I grow weary of the multitude of presses dropped over time. Some great presses come and go due to manufacturing costs or whatever. I use a lot of their dies that I bought used as well as new. Now they have a new press and I guess it will be gone in decade or two. It makes me weary. The only press that has survived the decades is now taller. I think they have the only currently metal progressive press that can be had as a manual index or auto. It has the ability to go from strip to priming tubes also

Same for the red company. I do hope their latest progressive stays around. I just wished their system allowed bushings to change between single stage and progressive without adjustment. Kinda short sighted I guess.

Only one green company and orange company without a dog in this fight.

Just some ramblings of an observer. Not bashing anyone, spent my money and if equipment works as intended, it stays, if not it goes. My money and my time.

Take care and if your tool works for you without monkeying with it - great! That's the way it should be.

r1kk1

[44Vaquero]

No, I guess some people are just oblivious to when they are being condescending and elitist and cloak their opinions as facts:

"No one has ever said a Lee progressive won't load fine ammo, then again, you could load fine ammo with their old Lee Loader & a hammer." Condescending

"SOme work well, LNL, some work like krap; Lee, some work better; Dillon. They can certainly all break, but Dillon will run out of the box, few other will. Since price is not really the issue, why waste $$ trying to get something else to do the job, buy the best tools you can afford. If ti made my press run better, I woudl paint it red. I think many like to be contrarian & go to anything other than Dillon, but it is the standard everyone else tries to copy." Condescending, judgmental and elitist

"Life is too short for ugly women, krappy beer & reloading in inferior equip." definitely condescending

"I use some Lee products, but their "regressives" are just a joke" Condescending, elitist and boarding on a Troll worthy baiting comment!

But none of the posters here are elitist condescending snobs like that![smilie=l:

[fredj338]

"SOme work well, LNL, some work like krap; Lee, some work better; Dillon. They can certainly all break, but Dillon will run out of the box, few other will. Since price is not really the issue, why waste $$ trying to get something else to do the job, buy the best tools you can afford. If ti made my press run better, I woudl paint it red. I think many like to be contrarian & go to anything other than Dillon, but it is the standard everyone else tries to copy." Condescending, judgmental and elitist

"Life is too short for ugly women, krappy beer & reloading in inferior equip." definitely condescending

"I use some Lee products, but their "regressives" are just a joke" Condescending, elitist and boarding on a Troll worthy baiting comment!

But none of the posters here are elitist condescending snobs like that![smilie=l:
Your opinion, certainly not fact. calling someone a snob or elitist is an opinion, not even a very observant one at that. Most people will support their choice of anything in life, good or bad, it's just human nature. When others point out solid facts & you still hide your head in the sand, well that is why the country is going in the wrong direction. Only folks with self esteem issue would view any of that as elitist, if that is even possible for the type of $$ we are talking about. Again, your $$, your choice, you don't have to defend it, but the name calling is a bit juvenile if not pathetic. Your choice, live with it, you don't have to defend it. Just don't let facts get in the way of your opinion.

[orbitalair]

I have a Lee handpress, Lee Turret press and a Lee LoadMaster. The turret gets used 90% of the time. I have run the LM a few times in big (couple hundred) batches of 223 and 9mm.

The priming system, by its design, has about 4 or 5 points of failure, from loose mounting base, to poor lever design (cracks can cause prime fail), to shellplate design (the 9mm 19s shellplate is too loose as its design to allow for another cal too).

The old positive capture is the best design. All you need to do is add a rubber band for a positive full return each and every time. I hate the "NEW" design because it will spit your very expensive (and more importantly RARE) primers down the tube. I loaded 50 9mm and used 80 primers...not good. So I reinstalled my old primer systems.

I beleive a really good fix is coming from a guy on loadmastervideos.com. And it involves a simple spring to replace the rubber band idea. Lee priming system really is the simplest approach.

I also agree with the QC dissatisfaction part. Lee would have MUCH, MUCh fewer issues and much better repoir if they did the simple task of setting up each press and checking it. I've run across many, many people who think this is what Lee does. They do not, the new user, not only has to learn reloading techniques they have to shake out the press setup too.

My 0.02 worth. Unless you are shooting >500 rounds a week, you do not need a LM. one of the turret presses will satisfy that demand easily. And cost way less too.

Joe

[500MAG]

I had a pro 1000, when it first came out, used it a month and packed it up. I got a Dillon SDB for a song on Craigslist. it needed several parts and I considered selling it to get a Load Master. The guys here convinced me to keep the Square Deal and I now have an XL 650 mounted next to it. I'm hooked on the Blue.

[Old 454]

Try to remember that Lee products are price pointed so that people with out a lot of extra cash to spend can enjoy reloading and casting the same as other do on the more expensive equipment.

I to have a Loadmaster press, sure would like to have a nice Dillon or Hornady, but with two kids in collage its not going to happen.

If Lee would fix there priming system to be reliable they could capture a much bigger share of the reloading market. I think that's there biggest complaint is that the priming system is bad.

[historicfirearms]

I sold my Lee turret press when I got my Loadmaster. I wish I hadn't done that now. I've had primer problems enough with the Loadmaster that I rarely use it. Even when it's working right, I think I could load at least half as fast with the turret. That was really plenty fast, Michigan winters are long and reloading on the turret was enjoyable.

[gunoil]

Did you say what your loading and how much?
My loadmaster on 45acp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWJ5T-gNBKc
You have to know stuff to set up a loadmaster. @ above site, u can learn.

Your loaded aren't you? Buy a 1050 dillon.

[mikeyjones]

I'll add my 2c. I started on a lee pro 1000. It was all I knew so I loved/hated the thing. I then added a lee turret to do rifle cartridges.

Fast forward a few years and after many hours of research and playing with different presses, I got a lnl as my primary press. I like it better than the XL650 for several reasons (1/2 step indexing and the priming system being the 2 major ones). The price wasn't the determining factor since they're very closely priced when outfitted similarly.

In reality, I'm not opposed to Dillons but the only one I would get would be the 1050 for the built in swaging and priming on the down stroke. Below that price point, I prefer the lnl.


With all of that said, I still have 2 pro 1000s and the lee turret. Every press still has a duty although I guess I could consolidate.

[Blacksamwell]

I have actually slapped the stop watch on for 1hr & easily get 700rds. That is only 1 handle pull every 5.1sec, pretty sedate. yes it's easily done. No the Lee or LNL can not come close for a 1hr run. It's not bragging, just fact.
So when everyone complains about reloading time, buy better gear. The more valuable your time, the more $$ you will need to spend to save that valuable time. A Lee won't do it, neither will a tuned LNL, a 650 will.
I've done the same time test with my Lee presses. Hate to burst your bubble but they match those rates. Both my Pro-1000 and Loadmaster.

[r1kk1]

I've done the same time test with my Lee presses. Hate to burst your bubble but they match those rates. Both my Pro-1000 and Loadmaster.

Alrighty then. Can't wait to see the responses to this. Loadmaster vs 650 or LNL with case feeder.

r1kk1

[1bluehorse]

Borrring............reminds me of someone taking the Helen Woods speed reading course....read War and Peace in 37 minutes...................it's something about Russia...?

[fredj338]

I've done the same time test with my Lee presses. Hate to burst your bubble but they match those rates. Both my Pro-1000 and Loadmaster.
Well you would be one of maybe 100K, not saying you are stretching the truth, but run it for one solid hour, then tell me you can do 700rds/hr. Not buying into that one, sorry.