Goose and big duck special

[Hogtamer]

They're not cast, but cast well....Copper coated steel BB's, the kind the kids shoot.
Tried 3 loads all same except wads, even reloaded in same hull:
2 3/4 Active hull (straight wall all plastic made in the 70's)
Win 209 primer
32 grains Longshot
1). 90 pellets (1 1/16 oz) in PT 1265 wad from BPI w/20 nitro card in powder side of base.
2). 90 pellets in waa12 red wad w/paper inside shot cup and extending up 1/2 in.
3). 90 pellets in RP12 wad w/paper inside shot cup and extending up 1/2 in.

All shot from older Browning 12 w/28" fixed modified barrel.
I thought # 1 with the long shot cup would outperform, but actually the worst by far. 19 pellets on 14" square paper, 9 in 12" circle. #3 was best with 25 pellets on 14" paper and 15 in 12 inch circle. All shot @ 40 yds, no damage or marks on hull and primer looked normal. All pellets penetrated 3/8 plywood and lodged firmly in 3/4 plywood behind. I figured I can get 50 shells from I container of BB's from Walmart for $5.75

[bstarling]

A long many years ago (1962) I loaded up some BB's in one of my Lee Loader reloads for my Stevens 311 double. Two shots, two ringed barrels right at the chokes. One side was full the other modified. I was young, 13. I'll never again put steel shot into a gun I own. I had worked my tail off to buy that gun and for the longest time understand why I went from a good wing shot to a sorry wing shot. An old gunsmith looked at my gun and told me what had happened. He cut three inches off the barrels and I could shoot again, but only on short shots. My lesson was learned.

Bill

[Jim]

A gunsmith friend here in Floyd County showed me a barrel from a pump gun with a split about 2 inches or so in the end of the barrel. He asked the guy what he had been shootin' in it. The guy told him he emptied a 'high brass' shell and filled it with BBs to shoot coyotes.

[Hogtamer]

Steel shot is mandatory for waterfowl these days and come with the recommendation to shoot in less than full choke barrels. Most are not copper coated as are the BB's I loaded, which I figure would be less harmful than off the shelf factory steel loads. Are there differences in factory steel that I'm unaware of?

[garandsrus]

I am pretty sure that the steel shot is "soft" steel where BB's probably arent.

I found this:
Steel shot is made from cold-rolled and annealed soft iron and is all manufacturers produce it. It has a density of 7.9 gr/cc and has a hardness of 90 to 120 on the Diamond Pyramid Hardness (DPH) scale.

[SeabeeMan]

I've been reading up on loading steel since I goose hunt A LOT and steel load prices are insane. A lot of care is put into keeping that shot off the barrel. Things like teflon wraps, wads that are not slit, overshot cards, etc. I think its more the care put into getting the shot out than it being a special shot. I'm kind of curious and might open up a few of my steel hulls to see what's in them. I know I have some black cloud left and I have a case of Winchester x-pert hi velocity.

[SeabeeMan]

You got me thinking. Crossman copperhead BB's are 5.28 grains each. That means roughly 82/ounce at .177" diameter. That puts them equivalent to #B shot per BPI's site: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Steel-Shot-B-bag_10/productinfo/SH1B/

6000 BB's at 5.28 grains each means that container contains 4.53 lbs of shot at $8.46, or $1.86 per pound. BPI's comes out to roughly $1.70 per pound before shipping and it isn't available right now. I also notice that they specify soft, annealed shot.

At that price, I think you might be onto something. I may have to start playing around with this. Sine the density of the shot is the same the difference probably comes down to the annealing and you should be able to use data for that weight and #B shot.

[tomme boy]

The BB's you are using will cut through the wad and score the barrel. It is way too hard. The so called steel shot you buy is actually iron. It is much softer. The BB's are also lighter and it will throw off the charge weight. Steel reloading is another whole ball game. Pressure gets crazy quick. FOLLOW a load manual before you hurt yourself or others near you!

[Duckiller]

In addition to the problems Tomme cited there is the little matter of BBs NOT being approved shot for waterfowl. You are only allowed to use Fish and Wildlife approved shot for waterfowl. I will guarentee you that copper BBs have not been approved. You may save money on buying shot but the fine for using unapproved shot will more than off set the savings. There are companies that sell approved shot , both steel and bismuth. Because of the cost of the shot and wads I saw very little saving in reloading for waterfowl. I did better by watching for sales at the beginning and end of the season. Usually could get a buck or two off a box when I would buy a case. Best I found is the real high speed Remington. Never found it on sale but I shot better with it. Fast enough so I could shorten up my lead. Do what Tomme said. It will be cheaper in the long run and the reloads won't mess up your barrel.

[Hogtamer]

It is legal according to my local warden so I'll accept his authority on the subject. California laws tend to be different about everything. As to the hardness issue, isn't that what wads are for? The petals are undamaged but deeply imprinted as is the interior of the base, but not blown. Not being argumentative. I tend to think that it is much to manufacturer's advantage to maximize potential problems and to be able to charge big bucks for otherwise unremarkable ammo.....

[SeabeeMan]

Tomme, I'm wondering a Mylar wrap would help with that scoring the barrel. I absolutely understand that steel is a whole different ball game. As more of a thought experiment about when steel shot is impossible to find due to its armor piercing characteristics :kidding:, would this be a substitute? It is .003" smaller than #B shot and at a weight within .05 grains per pellet, I'm curious where you could go wrong, especially if you were to choose loads where the pressure was already low. In a 1 1/4 oz shot payload your looking at the difference of 1 pellet based on that weight, which I'm sure is far less than the error on a shot bar. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Duckiller, my local warden is a parent of one of my students and I think I'll see him this week, so I'll double check. The regs specifically cite not lead and non-toxic, and list several suitable compositions, but they never say that the list is limiting or all inclusive. I'll double check all that.

[tomme boy]

There is a list of approved shot. You will have to contact the Federal boys to get it. And in case you didn't know, if a Federal warden catches you for anything, he can choose where you go to court for the ticket. A friend of mine was giving one of the Feds a hard time here over the possession limit and the Fed made him go to Denver to court if he wanted to fight it. And they can also double charge you. They can charge you for the state violation, then they can charge you under Federal. Seen this way too many times here with a warden that is not here anymore.

Anyway, the BB's you are going to use, are not on the list so don't use them. Not worth the trouble. Go to Ballistic products and just order some shot.

[Duckiller]

What Tomme said. Non-toxic shot is not a state law so don't blame it on California. Your local game warden is going to cost you some serious money. You may want to have a sit down talk with him and his boss. Ballistic Products has assorted no-toxic for sale.

[SeabeeMan]

Didn't realize it was federal level. It makes a lot of sense to stay away from this, then. Thanks for the clarification.