Somebody Please Explain Their Reasons For Water Dropping

[Foto Joe]

I shoot pretty much only low pressure rounds, 45 Colt, 45ACP, occasionally 44 SPC and 38 SPC. Currently I cast using only COWW. For what reason would I want to or not want to water drop my boolits?

Does water dropping have any effect on size, i.e. do they shrink measurably when quenched in water?

I'm assuming that water dropping does have effect on hardness but how much on COWW cast boolits?

[gimling]

Have you had any issues to date with your cast bullets?? Water dropping basicly hypercools the lead causing it to be harder, personally I water drop my bullets because most of the scrap I come across is almost pure lead, BHN of 5-7 after water dropping in ice water I get 10.5-13 BHN, does nothing to their size. I shot about 30-40 rounds I made for my 40 SW which is higher pressure round, and had no issues. COWW I think is already in the neighborhood of 14BHN if you get them to hard then they wont mushroom like you would want them to IMO.

[runfiverun]

about 50% harder.

if you got a whole pile of lead and wanted to use it up, but had nothing but those ww's you could mix them and then water drop them to make up the hardness you need, and have the malleability of the alloy too.

[RoyEllis]

Go to the bottom of the page, there's a link to "Cast Bullet Notes, LASC.US" it will take you to more information than I can even think of to type & will give you info on boolit alloys, hardness, and alot of why's & wherefor's it would take weeks to type out in this thread. Get you a tall glass of sweet tea, you'll be reading for quite a while.
Short answer though, for what you're loading right now you don't need to water drop & unless you're really pushing them boolits fast (for those cartridges) you can use 50/50 WW & pure lead with a little added tin and be well served.

[Foto Joe]

I'll add one more little query into this just for grins. What purpose would annealing serve?

[runfiverun]

annealing makes lead softer.
however you can't make it softer than the original alloy.
you can make it harder, then draw it back to a lower bhn, but not lower than the original alloy.

[williamwaco]

I have shot a zillion bullets cast from clip on wheel weights in revolvers and pistols.

I tried water cooling just to see and I can see no advantage to it.

It does harden the bullets, but clip on wheel weights are already plenty hard.

[btroj]

I do it to get a harder bullet from a lower Sb alloy. It gives me hard, tough bullets. It also keeps me from having a pile of hot bullets sitting next to me.

It is just what I do.

Water dropping isn't for everyone but then again, neither is casting. It isn't right, isn't wrong, it just is.

[357maximum]

You have no need to waterdrop with the cart/cals you listed.

I waterdrop so that I can toughen and get good accuracy using more mallable alloys (50/50 ww/pure) for HUNTING purposes for the most part. I also waterdrop special +copper alloys for boolits I intend to treat just like them copper wrapped thingies in rifles at 50-60 k-psi+.

[MtGun44]

+1 on William's post. Tried it, found no benefit, quit. Full power mag loads
with air cooled wwts works fine for all my pistol needs.

Bill

[Boyscout]

One alloy two different BHN's is why I do it. I like to feed my semi-auto something a little harder than COWW. I can turn 15 BHN into 22 BHN by dropping it in water right out of the tap and I don't drop direct as I pick up, check and drop. It slows my pace down and keeps my molds from overheating.

[Any Cal.]

I water drop because it is faster. You don't have to keep pushing bullets over on a towel, or carefully open the handles, just open the handles over the bucket and cast some more! That is using 3-6 cav aluminum molds, and turning the heat down as the mold heats up.

With 6-8" water in a bucket you can drop the hot boolits in from waist high with no deformation. Why would you mess with air cooling boolits?

[RobS]

I do it to get a harder bullet from a lower Sb alloy. It gives me hard, tough bullets. It also keeps me from having a pile of hot bullets sitting next to me.

It is just what I do.

Water dropping isn't for everyone but then again, neither is casting. It isn't right, isn't wrong, it just is.

+1.........

[mdi]

I water drop because it is faster. You don't have to keep pushing bullets over on a towel, or carefully open the handles, just open the handles over the bucket and cast some more! That is using 3-6 cav aluminum molds, and turning the heat down as the mold heats up.

With 6-8" water in a bucket you can drop the hot boolits in from waist high with no deformation. Why would you mess with air cooling boolits?

HeHe...:mrgreen:My reasons are exactly the opposite. I drop my bullets from the mold directly on a folded up towel. When they are cool (about 1/2 hr. later) they are ready for the next step. With water dropping I'd have to bring a bucket of water into the room, drop from waist height (or rig up some sort of stand for the bucket) dry the bullets before the next operation and get rid of "lead poisoned water" (JK). For me, more hassle than it's worth as I've never needed any WW alloy to be harder than stock for my boolits, standard and magnum...

[MtGun44]

+1 on mdi!

Bill

[zidave]

I water drop to harden my range scrap lead.
I am also uncomfortable having a big pile of hot boolits next to me. I usually don't lube my boolits right after casting so there's plenty of time for them to dry.

[BAGTIC]

I water drop but use a lot more than 6-8 inches of water. I tie a piece of heavy cloth that has a slit in it across the top of the Pail. When I drop the bullet hits the cloth which slows it down and then slides through the opening into the water. That way every bullet has the same drop height into the water and the cloth prevents any splash back.

[jimb16]

I see absolutely no reason to water drop my pistol boolits;HOWEVER, rifle boolits are a different matter.

[Changeling]

+1.........

+2 (When the correct elements are in the lead mixture).

[montana_charlie]

I water drop my bullets because most of the scrap I come across is almost pure lead, BHN of 5-7 after water dropping in ice water I get 10.5-13 BHN, does nothing to their size.
That certainly is not 'pure lead'.

[44man]

Two reasons for me, better accuracy from my revolvers without fliers.
50-50 alloy will be oven hardened to make the surface tougher for accuracy without changing expansion. Still a few fliers. I hate 3 in a ragged hole at 50 yards with 2 out.
Next is the lack of room on my bench for piles of hot boolits. A 5 gallon bucket of water on a short stool is just easier. I cast standing in the garage and a short twist to drop in water can't be beat by moving hot boolits around on towels. Call it lazy but I do get better accuracy from plain old WW's.
Air cooled gives me at least 2 fliers from every five. I have shot too many groups down to 3/8" at 50 yards and 1/2" groups at 100 to ever change.
Boolits harden faster and expand a little faster then waiting for air cooled to get right. They never do.
I will even water drop pure lead balls although it has no effect at all, just easier then a towel on the little space I have between the grinder and drill press.
Something to be said about a bucket of water for an old, old caster!

[Any Cal.]

HeHe...:mrgreen:My reasons are exactly the opposite. I drop my bullets from the mold directly on a folded up towel. When they are cool (about 1/2 hr. later) they are ready for the next step. With water dropping I'd have to bring a bucket of water into the room, drop from waist height (or rig up some sort of stand for the bucket) dry the bullets before the next operation and get rid of "lead poisoned water" (JK). For me, more hassle than it's worth as I've never needed any WW alloy to be harder than stock for my boolits, standard and magnum...

:-) I will do it either way, but usually air cool when it is below freezing, as the boolits don't dry, they freeze...(but the a/c boolits lead badly in my hot loads) I usually fill a bucket half full of water while the pot warms, and dump the water off while I put things away. Usually you can start lubing by the time you are done, and the boolits keep drying while you lube. Usually do about 400 at a time like that. An hour to set up and cast and an hour to lube.

Doing rifle boolits with a single cavity mold I usually air-cool, as they get paper patched, and the sc mold is so slow one boolit is cool before the next one hits the towel...:-)

[pergoman]

I tried water dropping some Mihec 9mm hp's today and found it just as fast as dropping onto a towel. They dried out in a few hours while I loaded something else. My experiment will be to see how they harden with time. After 4 hours they averaged 13.5bh. Others I cast a month ago with the same allow but air cooled just averaged 17.5bh. I have no leading issues but decided to try the water thing after reading this post. 5.5gn HS-6 gives me over 1100fps and sub 1.5" 5 shot groups in several 9's off the bags. It doesn't get any better than that.

[nagantguy]

The real reason I water drop is because as a boy I watched an old man cast 30-30 boolits and water drop them he winked and said it was his secret. All the racks hanging on his barn made me think this guy must know a thing or two. Now I water drop because I don't like a pile of hot boolits on the table with me.

[357maximum]

I keep a few of them mesh laundry hamper bags around. They make a great "liner" for your 5 gallon bucket. I cast one "lot" and use another bag for the next "lot" by the time I am done with a good casting session...the first lot has mostly dried hanging from a nail anyway. CAUTION...them laundry bags do have a weight limit of about 1K 175gr 8mm boolits though.....the seam will split iffin ya get it too heavy. :lol:

My 30/30 and 30Badger plinker boolits, my 38special/35REM plinker boolits and stuff for the frontstuffers are about the only things I aircool anymore.....I just like what waterdropping does for me and thanks to certain members of this forum I can manipulate alloys to do whatever I need with a bucket of water and proper alloying choices. "It's a good thing" :evil:

[brotherdarrell]

I have several hundred lbs. of pure lead; however, I don't do much shooting that requires pure.

My ww lead air cools around 13-14 bhn. If I mix the ww with pure 50/50 and water drop I end up with a bhn around 15.

I can take 200 lbs. of ww and turn it into 400 lbs. of alloy by water dropping. Math may not be my strong point but I will take 400 over 200 any day.

Using pure, ww and tin in various proportions I can get alloys with a bhn from dead soft to 30+ by air cooling, water dropping or heat treating. For me it is about options and maximizing available materials.

Darrell

[canyon-ghost]

I see absolutely no reason to water drop my pistol boolits;HOWEVER, rifle boolits are a different matter.

That's right, rifle bullets are better water dropped unless you go to the trouble to cast with linotype. I hardended some 7mmTCU bullets but, these are 7mm bullets in an opened up .223 case for 200 yards. Not your average 50 meter popper there.

I used a sledge hammer to check the difference, I tapped an air-cooled bullet and a water quenched one, from about the same distance and force (not real scientific, I just wanted to see). The air cooled bent all the way to center, the water quenched only deformed the first 1/4th of the bullet. It's dramatic, there's quite a difference.

[Green Lizzard]

i am with darrell i like his math

[Lloyd Smale]

Im with 44 man. In more cases then not harder bullets give better accuracy. If nothing else it gives you another way to tweak a load. Having two differnt hardness of bullets is like having two differnt powders to try or two differnt primers or even two totaly different bullets. Bottom line though is in most cases i will try a couple differnt hardness of bullet but i usually do it by alloying.
Two reasons for me, better accuracy from my revolvers without fliers.
50-50 alloy will be oven hardened to make the surface tougher for accuracy without changing expansion. Still a few fliers. I hate 3 in a ragged hole at 50 yards with 2 out.
Next is the lack of room on my bench for piles of hot boolits. A 5 gallon bucket of water on a short stool is just easier. I cast standing in the garage and a short twist to drop in water can't be beat by moving hot boolits around on towels. Call it lazy but I do get better accuracy from plain old WW's.
Air cooled gives me at least 2 fliers from every five. I have shot too many groups down to 3/8" at 50 yards and 1/2" groups at 100 to ever change.
Boolits harden faster and expand a little faster then waiting for air cooled to get right. They never do.
I will even water drop pure lead balls although it has no effect at all, just easier then a towel on the little space I have between the grinder and drill press.
Something to be said about a bucket of water for an old, old caster!

[Shiloh]

Harder boolit. Also if it's wet, it isn't hot.

Shiloh

[gwpercle]

Just remember that if you size and lubricate your water hardened bollits in a lubri-sizer :
1) They will be harder to force thru you lubri-sizer die. I have read of damage to the linkage.
2) Resizing works the lead alloy surface and softens it back to the hardness you started with.

I can see where a hardened boolit might be useful in hunting, making the portions not sized tougher for deeper penetration. But for target / plinking it may be more trouble than it's worth. I like 50/50 wheelweights and range lead air cooled. Straight ACWW is plenty hard for most use. Even in rifle applications.
Gary

[1Shirt]

I water drop all of mine for convenience. I also size and usually lube on the same day that I cast, because have had some that hardened up quick after a day.
1Shirt!

[badboyparamedic]

Water Drop because its quicker, I can dry them and use 45/45/10 almost immediatly

[Any Cal.]

Just remember that if you size and lubricate your water hardened bollits in a lubri-sizer :
1) They will be harder to force thru you lubri-sizer die. I have read of damage to the linkage.
2) Resizing works the lead alloy surface and softens it back to the hardness you started with.

I can see where a hardened boolit might be useful in hunting, making the portions not sized tougher for deeper penetration. But for target / plinking it may be more trouble than it's worth. I like 50/50 wheelweights and range lead air cooled. Straight ACWW is plenty hard for most use. Even in rifle applications.
Gary

I think that as long as you size right afterwards, the boolits aren't hard yet, so not much more difficult. Also, I understand that if you size before they harden then you don't lose the hard shell, as it hardens after it is the final size, over the course of hours+.

[PbHurler]

I keep a few of them mesh laundry hamper bags around. They make a great "liner" for your 5 gallon bucket.

Great idea!, thank you for the tip.

[pergoman]

The first batch has hardened to 19bnh from 13.5 avg in 2 days. I sized then about 4 hours after casting and they presented no problems or strain on my old Lyman lubrisizer.

[H.Callahan]

I water drop almost 100%. This is solely because I want a cold boolit as fast as possible. I do, however, use it to "extend" my lead by mixing pure/ww at about 50/50. WC causes them to come out somewhat near AC WW hardness. Pure lead is currently easier to find around here than WW, so mixing allows me to stretch my supply of WW farther.

[Foto Joe]

Probably a dumb question or maybe I'm just not awake yet but what is "ACWW?"

[Jim]

Air cooled wheel weights, indicated boolits cast from wheel weights and air cooled as opposed to water dropped.

[Foto Joe]

As I suspected, I'm not quite awake yet. Nothing like starting the day off with a DUH moment.

[44man]

Probably a dumb question or maybe I'm just not awake yet but what is "ACWW?"
Just air cooled. Works fine for most and might get some expansion for hunting.
I have trouble with boolits too fast on deer if too hard, like from my 45-70. I have some stereo lead, rich in tin and antimony that might make a good alloy mixed with pure. I need to try a batch.

[AABEN]

That is what I do and it works grate. Water drop.

[mroliver77]

I find much more soft lead than ww alloy. WD allows me to stretch my antimony twice as far. Less antimony also makes for a tougher boolit less likely to shatter or loose the nose.