elk calibre cast bullet. What's your choice?

[samwithacolt]

I have .303 Brit,.308,.32 WS,.38-55, so I have deer covered for cast bullets. How about Elk and possibly Moose?
I want a cheap and commonly available longer range rifle I can cast for, that will reach out for Elk especially. I had been thinking 9.3x62, but there isn't much for molds.
I have a .300 WM, but have never felt the love for it that I have for my other calibers (and I'm tired of paying $1 a bullet for projectiles)
I would prefer a bolt gun, as I think scoping a lever is a sin.(Unless it's a brass telescope!)
How far can cast reach for bigger game animals?
Your thoughts?

[Beerd]

I see a .358 Win or 35 Whelen in your future. While they don't have the reach of your 300 mag with $1 a pop bullets, each is good to 200 yards or more.
..

[Outpost75]

If you have a .375 H&H they handle cast extremely well over a wide range of velocities from .38-55 equivalent to full power stuff.

I've used #375449 in soft lead without the GC for deer at .38-55 velocities with 12 grains of Bullseye, or in quenched wheelweights with gascheck and full charge of IMR4350 for African plains game such as kudu, as well as for elk and moose stateside.

Nothing better.

If you have a .38-55, run #375449 as hard as you can safely drive it and it will do the job.

If you get a 9.3x62, Veral Smith at LBT can make a suitable mold for you no trouble. I would go with one of his LFN designs in about 280-300 grains.

[357maximum]

35 Whelen with 220-250 grain WD'ed 50/50 castboolit - two birds one stone :mrgreen:

[sharpsguy]

Get a 45-70 and learn how to use it. I have taken kudu beyond 300 yards and blesbok beyond 450 in Africa. I have taken 3 elk from 80 to 125 yards. The 45-70 has plenty of reach and more killing power with cast bullets than most people realize. You just have to have the right sights and load.

[armexman]

Mr Acolt,;)
The .368 molds can be had from NOE, MM, LBT, NEI and Accurate. I am going through the list of from whom I will be purchasing one; NOE has them and LBT too, in the weight I would like to use-280grns. Even though on a budget; I still think that all the aforementioned cos. are very affordable.
Deputy Al's(Ret.) writings are one of the reasons I traded a S&W M57 for a CZ-550 in 9.3X62.
I definitely will be using this caliber in boolits, for cow elk(over the counter;left-over tags) in the fall. Unit 181 in Central CO. Any cow within 200 yds is meat in the freezer.All this MHCO.

[bbailey7821]

338 Win Mag. 220 g. Nosler

:mrgreen:

Pulled the trigger 3x in anger. 3 dead beasts. Nuff sed?

[Dan Cash]

You have elk and moose covered with the .303 and .308. If your .38-55 is a modern gun, it too wiil serve you well. If you are just wanting a new/different gun & caliber, most of the suggestions above would really do the job.

[samwithacolt]

My .38-55 is still in the experimental stages of trying to find a load that will shoot accurately with weak rifling in a 113 yr old gun. I'm probably looking at something like a 9.3 Mauser/Husqvarna sporter as they are affordable, and then finding a mold for GC boolits.
This will be my 1st yr hunting with cast. I shot a doe with my flintlock last year with store bought .495 ball, but will pick up a mold for it shortly. I have some .309 cast for my .308 and my wife's .30-30 bolt gun.
Still trying to get a lee mold for .303, but hope to shoot a deer with my .38-55 this year.

[MT Chambers]

If you are like me and insist on using cast for everything, then you really need a 45/70.

[samwithacolt]

I have shot a lot of deer with scoped rifles and j bullets, last season was a big change with my 1st 2 deer with irons.
One with my 94 in 32 WS and one with my Lyman Great Plains .50 flint. I want to shoot another one with the flintlock and one with my .38-55 this year. I could easily shoot all my freezer deer with cast, it would be cheaper and more fun.
I am interested in .45-70, but if the sights can't outreach my .308 scoped rifle, then the extra power is wasted. I might have to stomach a scoped .45-70.

[Larry Gibson]

I want a cheap and commonly available longer range rifle I can cast for, that will reach out for Elk especially.

It's the "long range" and "reaching out" that pose the problem.

I concur with outpost75 on the 375 H&H. I also have a M70 and use the 377449. I push it at 2200 fps with hunting alloys and very good accuracy. I would shoot an elk with it, no doubt about that. However, my own personal restriction is 200 yards max with most any regular cast bullet but will push the 375 H&H with that bullet load to 250 Yards. The velocity is down to 1500 fps +/- and that's about the absolute minimum in my estimation for elk. The shot conditions would have to be absolutely perfect for me to take it over 200 yards.

Now on the other hand if you get a .35 Whelen with a 16" twist and use a 200 - 220 gr cast bullet at 2400 - 2500 fps then maybe 300 yards max might be in the books. Truth be known though of the 18 elk I've killed on license only 2 were past 200 yards and only one of those past 250 yards. All the rest were killed on the short side of 100 yards. For elk and moose with a factory available rifle I still vote for the 375 H&H.

Larry Gibson

[samwithacolt]

9.3X62 is a cheaper rifle(compared to .375) with free brass(I have buckets of .30-06). Here in Alberta, 9.3 rifles aren't that hard to find. Would there be much difference in cast velocities between 9.3 and .375? Is it more limited by cast boolit velocities than case capacity?

[runfiverun]

the best way to figure it is by boolit weight and retained energy.
guy's use open sights and regularly whack our 12" gong at 300 yds.
quite often they are using black powder in their cartridges.
I can sit there and do it all day long with cast in my 1917, hitting stuff and killing it efficiently are 2 different things.

[sharpsguy]

If you hit an elk at 300 yards with a 45-70 shooting a 420 to 500 grain cast lead bullet, it will shoot all the way through him and kill him graveyard dead. Hit him in front of the diaphragm, and you have a dead elk on your hands. What you guys shooting these 30 caliber pop guns don't understand is that these heavy 45 caliber bullets kill so much more effectively than the smaller calibers and they do it without having to have 2000 fps plus velocity. A 480 grain FN at 1200 fps is devastating, and it will reach WAY out there.

[357maximum]

If you hit an elk at 300 yards with a 35whelen shooting a 220-280 grain cast lead bullet, it will shoot all the way through him and kill him graveyard dead. Hit him in front of the diaphragm, and you have a dead elk on your hands. What you guys shooting those 45 caliber pop guns don't understand is that these midweight 35 caliber bullets kill so much more effectively than the bigger calibers and they do it without having to have rainbow trajectories. A 220 grain FN at 24-2700 fps is devastating, and it will reach WAY out there.

:mrgreen: two sides to every coin there sharpguy :lol:

[MT Chambers]

I'll go with the Sharps guy, the 45/70 with 450-550 grain flatpoints trumps most anything, at least up here, where the Moose and Elk grow big and tough.

[MT Gianni]

The two Countries with the largest Moose population have traditional arms that they both used for war and Moose. Canada used the 303 British and Sweeden the 6.5x55. It really comes down to bullet placement.

[waksupi]

It's no secret I am a big fan of the .358 Win. The .35 Whelen is overbore for cast boolits, as the same velocity range can be reached with a smaller case, in a shorter action. I've been using a 265 gr. at around 2200fps, and it has a point blank range of 225 yards. Covers my hunting situations.
I've killed quite a few elk over the years. A properly designed heavy cast boolit has given me more consistent quick kills than jacketed bullets.

[357maximum]

When did you buy a 358 Ric??? :lol: :mrgreen:

I consider it my civic duty to use all of that surplus brass from that illbegotten 270Winchester caliber....my Whelen is the best use I found for that "stuff" :lol:

[colt1960]

I have the sinful rifle a marlin 45-70 with a scout scope. Its my choice for a anything that walks weapon. It sounds like you have made up your mind on yours and just want someone to agree with you on it. Im sure the 9.3X62 will be up to the task if thats what you have got your heart set on. Rick!

[sharpsguy]

357Maximum--I suspect that you have never seen a 45 caliber Sharps with barrel sights work at ANY distance, let alone beyond 400 yards. I have shot ONLY cast lead bullets for the last 35+ years and continue to be amazed at how much misinformation there is in the shooting community about the 45-70. The trick is to learn how to use one. I can reach and hit AND KILL large animals--we are talking elk, aren't we--at greater distance with my iron sighted 45 caliber Sharps and cast bullets than you can with your scope sighted 35 caliber bolt gun. Nobody was trying to kill buffalo in the 1870's with a sub 40 caliber rifle, and there is a reason.

Your velocity drops off at distance and removes much of the killing component of your little bullet, whereas the velocity loss of the 500 grain bullet is not that significant as it relates to penetration. The Sharps with its big bullet kills at distance, the 30 and 35 caliber bullet usually wounds. As far as the trajectory is concerned, it is not a problem. I don't have to hold over. I hold on with my barrel sight, and never have to worry about running out of turret . The fact is, your rifle and load doesn't have the range or the killing power of a good 45-70 properly loaded. I'm not guessing. I have taken a number of animals beyond 300 yards with a 45 caliber Sharps shooting cast lead bullets in Africa and the U.S., and have a lot of it on dvd and killed a springbok at 537 yards with the first shot in South Africa in 2009.

I shoot gallon milk jugs at 400 yards with the 45-70 for practice, FWIW.

[357maximum]

Sharpsguy...everyone knows that them 45 boolits will bounce right off a critter at any distance more than 10 feet. :lol:

You suspect incorrectly, and I was only pointing out that there are two schools of thought (at least) on such issues......to each their own and I do not need another sparring partner here...I was just saying kinda thing. I bet if such critters as the 375H&H, 35Whelen and smokeless powders were available in that bygone era someone would have snuffed a hide or two with em is all. Use what you want, clamour on about what you want...we all have our preferances....that is what makes this hobby so grand. SMile and have a great day, Mike

[Larry Gibson]

Know doubt at all about the heavier cast bullets killing anything like elk or moose at long range. I've shot enough 45-70s out of TDs and Sharps over the last 30 years or so to know you'd better know exactly what the range is past 200 yards or it is very, very easy to miss the heart lung area on and elk. Also using open sights vs a scope severely limits the ability to accurately place the bullet in the vitals. In days of yore the buffalo hunters merely hit the buffalo, they didn't really care where as long as the buff dies it was found and skinned. Do you really have time to range (assuming a range finder is used), look at your cheat sheet for the sight setting for that range, set the tang sights, get into position to shoot, judge the wind and shoot before the elk moves? If so you probably hunt more tame elk than I ever have.

I also have had a Siamese Mauser 45-70 since the mid '70s. I also lived in elk country and have hunted them a lot. Even pushing jacketed bullets to 2400 fps out of that scoped bolt action rifle I learned to limit myself to 300 yards at an absolute maximum. Now with my TDs with 400 - 500 gr bullets at 1200 - 1400 fps? The max range is considerably shorter.

Lot of difference between shooting a live elk in a very short amount of time under pressure and shooting a milk jug at known distance that doesn't move and you have all the time to do it in. It's not always a matter of "what will kill" but what you can hit with and kill.

Larry Gibson

[waksupi]

357Maximum--I suspect that you have never seen a 45 caliber Sharps with barrel sights work at ANY distance, let alone beyond 400 yards. I have shot ONLY cast lead bullets for the last 35+ years and continue to be amazed at how much misinformation there is in the shooting community about the 45-70. The trick is to learn how to use one. I can reach and hit AND KILL large animals--we are talking elk, aren't we--at greater distance with my iron sighted 45 caliber Sharps and cast bullets than you can with your scope sighted 35 caliber bolt gun. Nobody was trying to kill buffalo in the 1870's with a sub 40 caliber rifle, and there is a reason.

Your velocity drops off at distance and removes much of the killing component of your little bullet, whereas the velocity loss of the 500 grain bullet is not that significant as it relates to penetration. The Sharps with its big bullet kills at distance, the 30 and 35 caliber bullet usually wounds. As far as the trajectory is concerned, it is not a problem. I don't have to hold over. I hold on with my barrel sight, and never have to worry about running out of turret . The fact is, your rifle and load doesn't have the range or the killing power of a good 45-70 properly loaded. I'm not guessing. I have taken a number of animals beyond 300 yards with a 45 caliber Sharps shooting cast lead bullets in Africa and the U.S., and have a lot of it on dvd and killed a springbok at 537 yards with the first shot in South Africa in 2009.

I shoot gallon milk jugs at 400 yards with the 45-70 for practice, FWIW.

Amazing. I shot buffalo rifles for years, and never had one that had no drop at 400 yards. That must be a remarkable rifle.

[1Shirt]

Just my 2 cents worth at this point! I have a #1 Ruger in both 375H&H, and 45-70, and would not hesitate to grab either of them at random for elk or anything of that size. Big heavy cast boolits, particularly if cast in the right alloy and HP'd and driven around 1800 or so will do the job at appropriate ranges. Unfortunately, with the cost of non res elk lisc, and old age, will not have a chance to verify.
1Shirt!

[357maximum]

Amazing. I shot buffalo rifles for years, and never had one that had no drop at 400 yards. That must be a remarkable rifle.


You gotta start adding that booster charge of C-4 in order to get that to work...it is not the gun it is the loading methodology. :lol:

[sharpsguy]

waksupi--You may have shot buffalo rifles for years, but that doesn't mean you know HOW to shoot one. Read my post. Carefully. I didn't say that the bullet didn't drop. Of course it does. I said that I DIDN'T HOLD OVER. I said that I hold on with the barrel sight. The sight is adjusted for the distance, and the rifle shoots to the sights. It's as simple as that.

I'm not looking for a fight or an argument, either. The OP said that he wanted to reach and kill elk at distance, and indicated that he was willing to buy a rifle to enable him to do that. Nothing will do it any better than a properly loaded 45-70 used correctly. I have a Cowboy Marlin in 45-70 with a ladder sight off of a '73 Winchester installed. With 480 grain cast bullets at 1250 fps it will reach and kill beyond 400 yards with no problem. The rifle doesn't have to be a Sharps, it just has to have a sight set up that lets you engage a target within your comfort zone. A 45-70 shooting cast bullets and black powder is powerful, accurate, and doesn't kick you until your teeth hurt.

Larry--I do use a rangefinder, but I DON'T USE A TANG SIGHT. I use a barrel ladder sight, marked in 100 yard increments and correlated with the rangefinder. I can set that sight for distance quicker than most guys can spin their target turrets. There is NO cheat sheet. If you know your rifle you can cover the first 200 yards without having to stand the ladder up. Beyond 200 yards, you have time to do whatever you want to.

One more thing. I don't take shots I can't make. In over 35 years of shooting these rifles, I have never wounded an animal and lost it. A man needs to know what his limits are. If yours are 150 or 200 yards, so be it. I practice and shoot so that I CAN reach out there if I want or need to.

[Larry Gibson]

One more thing. I don't take shots I can't make.

I'll drink to that sharpsguy! We're on the same page:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[1Shirt]

Ya, I'll drink to that also Larry!
1Shirt!

[Don McDowell]

I have .303 Brit,.308,.32 WS,.38-55, so I have deer covered for cast bullets. How about Elk and possibly Moose?
I want a cheap and commonly available longer range rifle I can cast for, that will reach out for Elk especially. I had been thinking 9.3x62, but there isn't much for molds.
I have a .300 WM, but have never felt the love for it that I have for my other calibers (and I'm tired of paying $1 a bullet for projectiles)
I would prefer a bolt gun, as I think scoping a lever is a sin.(Unless it's a brass telescope!)
How far can cast reach for bigger game animals?
Your thoughts?

The problem you are about to run headlong into, is the "cheap" and commonly available longer range rifle. Those two phrases just aren't going to mix well. Unless you can find a good sharps in 45-70 or 90, with a good ladder sight and spend the time to learn how to use that ladder sight. Combine the good loads with a laser range finder and adjust your front sight so that you can set the slide to hit to point of aim at what ever distance you choose. You're also going to need to learn good wind doping skills no matter what rifle/cartridge you choose to hunt with cast bullets.
Don't hinder yourself with a "brass telescope" it takes to long to adjust the sight to the range you may need, plus those iddy biddy 3/4 inch tubes don't let much light in and you'll shut your hunting hours down by 1/2 hour or more.
How far can cast reach for the bigger animals? just as far as the person yanking the trigger has the ability to put the round where it needs to go. Folks that expend 100's of rounds weekly on targets from near to far in all manner of weather will be able to do shoot further, than those that shoot a couple of rounds and call it good. Read what the old timers did and they shot a lot further than some of the modern day experts thing one of those big ol cast bullets will even fly.
Think 45-70 and a quality sharps if longrange shooting is what you want to do with cast bullets.

[armexman]

Sam Colt,
;)Buy yourself a 9.3X62 quick before they above stop talking about the 45-70, hurry they may finish sooner;)

[waksupi]

If you need a range finder, you won't be shooting many elk in this area. Pretty much snap shooting usually.

[Cosmiceyes]

After reading everything that everyone said,I would look to a .35 to .375 caliber gun. At my age they don't make glasses that can see the front sight,and the animal at the same time. So much for a quick shot.So now I go to the peep sight matched to a good target-able front sight.At 400 yds I don't see the normal sight"not"covering up to much target to really see the kill spot.I use fine cross hairs in my scopes. As a reference I give you a .223 TC Encore Pistol with a 2 X scope.Trying to bi-pod shoot a groundhog in Virginia.It had a Dual-X cross hair.Using a range finder,and noted the GH was 235 yards.Sight in on paper was 200 yds dead on.Look through scope,and the small cross hair covered him up completely.No shot could be safely made for a quick kill. Now back to the 400 yard open sight shot. Ringing a "GONG" at 400 yds with open sights I will believe,but even safely seeing your sights on said animal for a safe clean one shot kill?I am glad I have tall rubber boots.

[sharpsguy]

Cosmiceyes--You need to take off your rubber boots and get some good glasses. It's really bad when you don't know that you don't know. Don't hide behind the eyesight crutch. I'm sixty-nine and I wear glasses and shoot open iron sights. You just need to learn how to use your eyes and make them work for you is all.

[Pilgrim]

Me thinks sharpsguy is over simplifying the problem. I believe we're dealing with a bit of ignorance on his part. I also am closer to 70 than 65, but no way can I use open sights other than peep sights. I wear tri-focals, have diabetes, and a couple of other things not worth mentioning here. My blood sugar is almost never constant which means my vision is constantly changing. That's why I couldn't continue with Hunter Benchrest. I tried for a number of years and even using 6X scopes and a solid benchrest, I couldn't see well enough consistently enough to be competitive. The same applies to open sights. I have to have the larger bead and the ghost ring (peep sight) to use open sights. I believe I could put a killing shot on an elk or moose out to 300 yards. But would need a bit of time to sort it out. Like Waksupi said, ain't gonna find an elk or moose out this way that is going to stand around long enough for all of that.

A second item you aren't mentioning is the rifles in question. My .358 weighs in the range of 7.5 # ready to go. Any .358 Win or .35 Whelen can be put together in that weight range without much difficulty. Shooting a .45-70 in that weight range is going to give you a fair amount of bang for your buck. I rather imagine your Sharps is in the 10# plus range. You may be enough of a man to pack that rifle over the mountains out here, but I choose not to do so, or even attempt to do so. The cartridge is a fairly small part of the equation all things considered. FWIW Pilgrim

[samwithacolt]

Thanks for all the lively debate!
I was joking about the brass telescope, I just don't like the idea of as scope on a lever gun. I moved to Alberta 5 yrs ago, from the UK where I shot deer up to Red stags and as far as 400yds plus. I shot more deer with the lowly .243 than anything else. I'm enjoying my new found freedom to use other calibers, as the UK has velocity minimums for deer as well as caliber restrictions.
I'm enjoying paying with cast boolits and I like to shoot a lot with whatever I am going to hunt with. My .300 WM has been fed Accubonds, which aren't cheap, but I would be confident with it past 300yds(depending on the shot)
I am toying with the idea of trading it for something that will shoot cast boolits with sufficient authority to be comparable to the .300.
I do like the idea of a .45-70, and wouldn't rule it out(maybe a H&R buffalo classic?), but 9.3x62 sporters are easily scoped and fairly common here(more common than .35's and cheaper than .375).
I should have a cow draw tag this year, for the prairies south of me. It's pretty much a slam dunk, I'm hoping for a headshot with my .308 or .300. The cast rifle will be a project for next year's general tag.

[Don McDowell]

sam if you do decide on one of those buffalo classics, do yourself a favor and equip it with one of the Smith enterprise sights made for the thing , available from Buffalo Arms , or fit it with a buffington sight. Those Williams sights that come on those are doing darn good to get a 100 yd zero.

Funny how things change, I remember back when a "featherweight" model 70 weighed 8+ lbs and that was before they put about 2 lbs of scope and mounts on my mothers rifle...

[Don McDowell]

If you need a range finder, you won't be shooting many elk in this area. Pretty much snap shooting usually.

Good point Rick, probably more elk killed at 100 yds and under than there are at longer ranges.
Anybody that's not capable of putting a bullet in the vitals at that range with a good iron sight, probably doesn't have any business away from his computer screen with a loaded rifle anyway.
I'm sure you remember our departed friend Ron Carr and the many elk he killed with 50 cal roundballs at 150 yds +, and we both know what he thought was proper sights on those rifles.

[303Guy]

I'm hoping for a headshot with my .308 or .300.Oooh! That's not something I'd be saying out load. The head is full of things like jaws, mouth, nose and other stuff which take up about 90% of it's volume. Hitting any of those bits is not going to kill it the same day. Hitting the lower jaw (which is pretty big) will kill the animal for sure. Just not the same day. Hitting the upper jaw may or may not kill the animal depending on whether it is broken off or not. Again, not the same day. Hitting the brain will kill it on the spot, but, where exactly is the brain? It's pretty small in that large head. Please do not consider head shots.

[samwithacolt]

Did I say head? Sorry, I meant to say heart(darn predictive text!)

[Don McDowell]

I don't know a couple of times in the elk timber a head shot was all that was presented, both times resulted in drt shots and a winters worth of meat.
Another time a head shot meant to keep from having a nasty job of packing a deer out , ended up just the opposite. Little whitetail buck along a canyon in the Blackhills, grazing just on the edge, figured if I heart shot him he'ld jump and run over the limestone cliff, and end up down in the plumb brush, so I head shot him. He hit the ground bouncing like a rubber ball, gave about 3 summersaults, and guess where he ended up....:mrgreen:

[quilbilly]

Maybe I missed it, Sam, but I didn't read where you might be planning your elk hunt. Not all elk hunts are across the canyon. Sometimes you find them where a bayonet would be better (like where I go) which is why I often use my 50 cal muzzleloader even during modern firearm season or at least my "downloaded" 444.

[jhalcott]

I like(and prefer) the .35 Whelen with big bullets at moderate speeds for Moose and Elk. Mine has a 1/14 twist custom made barrel. It kills deer with a 200 or so grain cast bullet. It likes the heavier 250-275 grain cast bullets also, giving me 2 to 3 inch groups at 200+ yards. My .45-70 is no where near as accurate and kicks a LOT harder with the 450 to 500 grain slugs at high velocity. It does NOT matter what caliber you use(within reason) if the bullet does not go into the vitals! It's better to KILL them with a smaller caliber than WOUND them with a cannon!

[Don McDowell]

Really don't need to get into some of the ridiculousness of high velocity some think the 45-70 needs. Standard loads been getting er done just fine since 1864 when Peabody introduced it.
This guy folded all 4 legs in mid air hit the ground stone cold dead when that patched bullet went bashing thru his vitals on a quartering away shot 204 yds from the muzzle.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/shortyppatch08.jpg

[357maximum]

You hit it in the vitals from 204 yards and all you have left is the head???? That 45/70 obviously wastes waaaay too much meat :lol:

[Don McDowell]

Yup, just imagine all those fools carrying those souped up 45-70 rounds,,, they probably don't even get the head back..

[samwithacolt]

I love the idea of an iron sighted .45-70, but there's a big difference in a freshly painted gong, hanging in the sun at 300yds, and an elk in the treeline, maybe with another one bedded behind it.
Past 150 yds, I want a scope. I usually hunt Elk in the mountains, so from close fleeting glimpses in the timber, to reaching across a meadow, ranges can vary.
This year I'm not too worried. I should be drawn for a cow tag in a herd that lives in the coulies and ridges south of me in the praries. Next year I want to go afield with a larger bored lead chucker.
For those who favour the .375 ballpark, can a .375(or a .35 for that matter) push a cast lead bullet any faster than a 9.3, or is it limted by the bullet rather than powder capacity?

[Cosmiceyes]

I think the most economical gun and caliber is the Colt Buntline in .45 Colt.Loaded hot with a 300 grain boolit.At that caliber,and boolit weight it will go clean through a lot of bull from a distance of 400 yards.It cost less than all the rest,and is cheaper on powder.Easy to carry all day long,and at the coffee shop/bar your bravado will be sung about. Same caliber as .45-70.Here's a picture to make you drool!
75723

[Don McDowell]

Buntline new frontier(if he could find one) like that would cost him more than a good sharps. Then there's the little matter about not being legal to hunt with handguns in Canada..

[waksupi]

Really don't need to get into some of the ridiculousness of high velocity some think the 45-70 needs. Standard loads been getting er done just fine since 1864 when Peabody introduced it.
This guy folded all 4 legs in mid air hit the ground stone cold dead when that patched bullet went bashing thru his vitals on a quartering away shot 204 yds from the muzzle.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/shortyppatch08.jpg

That one looks like he should score around 1100 board feet.

[Don McDowell]

:mrgreen:

[GabbyM]

I'd just use my 30-06 with the 200 FN I have. Although a 220 grain would be better and a larger caliber would be better yet.
I've always fancied the 338-06 and then a Win 70 in 375 H&H.

My daughter is going elk hunting this fall with a 270 and Jacketed bullets.

[303Guy]

75723All it takes is a rifle butt and you have a revolving carbine. You could interest me with that any day! And it does make me drool. Mind you, that Sharps has an appeal too.

[Cosmiceyes]

All it takes is a rifle butt and you have a revolving carbine. You could interest me with that any day! And it does make me drool. Mind you, that Sharps has an appeal too.
1873 BUNTLINE TARGET — 18"
MSRP $669
Case-hardened; walnut grip "BUT" there is this for foreigners!

344190 Revolver Carbine .45 Colt 18" Case-hardened Frame, Steel Backstrap and Trigger Guard $769
75742

[nanuk]

You hit it in the vitals from 204 yards and all you have left is the head???? That 45/70 obviously wastes waaaay too much meat :lol:

its those dang magnumitis Loudenboomers that those young kids today think they need, when shooting at something beyond 50 yds.... Probably has a 30in barrel on it too..... trying to eke out every last FPS from that cartridge.

some kids will never learn!

[303Guy]

75742

That's the one. What a beauty. Oooh .... !

I would keep the pistol grip of the hand gun though. No choice really if one wants to simply fit a new butt-stock. I would adapt my hunting just to take that beauty out into the woods. I doubt I'd ever be able to have one of those.

But then again, that Sharps would feel good in the woods too.

So, what are the ballistics of a hot loaded 300gr 45 boolit from a modern one of those?

[taco650]

What about one of the H&R Handi Rifles in 45-70 with scope or irons? Affordable big-bore fun.

[Don McDowell]

How's this for a freshly painted gong?[smilie=w:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Fqs543qxTHE

[sharpsguy]

Don, thanks for the link. I had been shooting freshly painted white gongs so much that when I saw something white in Africa, I couldn't help myself, and shot it.

[Don McDowell]

Well I can see where a fella can get confused, and excited. I mean, really , how many times does a fella get a chance to shoot at a gong that friggin big? LOL , and that poor zebra was black and white...:bigsmyl2:

[Cosmiceyes]

So, what are the ballistics of a hot loaded 300gr 45 boolit from a modern one of those?[/QUOTE]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=130502

Look at pmer #9 quote.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-300G-D.png

[jercon]

Old Elmer Keth and Paul Mathews who is a very good friend of mine and shoot 500 meters with Black powder loads, proved the worth of the 45-70 years ago.

[sharpsguy]

Cosmiceyes--It was not a hotrod modern load. It was a traditional 480 grain flatnosed cast bullet 50/50 AC COWW and lead driven by 3f KIK black powder at 1242 fps. Rifle is a Shiloh Number One Sporter in 45-70.

[303Guy]

I have no way of comprehending a 480gr boolit doing 1200fps. That zebra just folded up then quietly died. What was the internal damage? Zebra are tough animals.

So does that mean that the bigger and heavier the boolit, the less velocity it needs to get the job done?

[sharpsguy]

That is the second zebra I have taken. The first was with a 45-110 shooting a 511 grain paper patched bullet over 106 grains of 2f black powder. Velocity was 1360 and the distance was 96 yards on the first one. My PH told me that the zebra would break my string of complete pass through shots, and I asked him why. He said that his 375 H&H would not reliably shoot through a zebra, and he didn't think the Sharps would. The 45-110 Sharps and its cast bullet went through the zebra on an angle like it was cheese and threw up dirt on the other side. I don't have that one on video. When I arrived for the next safari, My PH looked at the 45-70 cartridge and asked me if it had the range of the 45-110. I assured him that it did. You will notice on the video that the PH is not carrying his rifle as we approached the downed animal. He had developed enough confidence in both me and the rifle and cartridge by then that he left his rifle with the tracker.

The bullet took out the big blood vessels at the top of the heart and went through both lungs before exiting. The distance on the shot was 161 yards on a Leica laser rangefinder. In taking a number of plains animals which include both black and blue wildebeast and kudu as well as the smaller antelope species, I have observed that the Sharps and 500 grain bullets at black powder velocities invariably give complete pass through and a quick kill. I have taken six bison as well and have never failed to shoot all the way through them. I have never had a bison go as far as 50 yards after being hit with a Sharps.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

. have!

[taco650]

On 500 gr 45 slugs, "Its hard to stop a train". A freight train that is and that's what those big slugs are!

[samwithacolt]

I may have to look at .45-70 again, probably Marlin.
9.3x62 in a 98 mauser is'nt as cheap as I thought. 9.3x57 in a 96 mauser is dirt cheap, can get one for around $300.
Savage do a .375(ruger I think) for around $700, but it does'nt have "free" brass like 9.3x57 or 62.
I had thought of a .45-70 conversion on an enfield, but that's not going to be cheap.
9.3x57, using blown out and neck turned "06 brass seems to be the cheapest option, just need to find some ballistics for it. I can draw a moose about every 4 yrs, I get a general elk every year, but hunt the bow seaon first. I find it hard to justify blowing $1000 plus on a rifle that I might need to make one shot a year with.

[nanuk]

watching that video, makes me laugh, and glad I sold my 338WinMag.

with smokeless powder, it is not hard to replicate BP velocities, and as everyone can see, the Fat-Heavy-Slow boolit is really all that is needed.

[sharpsguy]

If I could have only one rifle to hunt anything anywhere in the world, it would be a Cowboy Marlin in 45-70 equipped with a ladder barrel sight and a blade front. It holds nine rounds, and with the ladder sight can reach anything you might want or need to. The 480 grain FN I used on the zebra cycles through it with no problems, and it works with either black or smokeless powder. It is light and easy to carry. It provides the most practical, useable firepower in one package that I know of. From hogs and deer to bear and cape buffalo, the Cowboy Marlin in 45-70 is a complete package. And no, mine is not for sale.

[LynC2]

You hit it in the vitals from 204 yards and all you have left is the head???? That 45/70 obviously wastes waaaay too much meat :lol:

[smilie=l:
I guess I read too much Elmer Keith when I was younger and as I result I lean toward the bigger calibers just to be certain of a clean kill. I'm preaching to the choir here when I agree boolit placement is everything, but in that off chance it does not hit exactly right I would prefer a little extra "insurance".
One thing that really made an impression many years ago was the first deer I shot with my TC 54 Renegade. I was totally shocked by the amount of damage a soft lead slug did to the heart and lungs(think jello) of that deer. If I hadn't know what it was shot with, I would have imagined it was something a .300 Win. mag would have done. It left me most impressed to say the least! Anyway if I were to pick up a rifle for elk using cast; I'd be looking for a .358 caliber and up. Preferably .375 and up! I am going to blame it all on Guns&Ammo and Elmer. :wink:

[starmac]

I find it hard to justify blowing $1000 plus on a rifle that I might need to make one shot a year with.

I find it easy to find suitable rifles for half and less of your 1000.00 figure, even in todays market.

[taco650]

I may have to look at .45-70 again, probably Marlin.
9.3x62 in a 98 mauser is'nt as cheap as I thought. 9.3x57 in a 96 mauser is dirt cheap, can get one for around $300.
Savage do a .375(ruger I think) for around $700, but it does'nt have "free" brass like 9.3x57 or 62.
I had thought of a .45-70 conversion on an enfield, but that's not going to be cheap.
9.3x57, using blown out and neck turned "06 brass seems to be the cheapest option, just need to find some ballistics for it. I can draw a moose about every 4 yrs, I get a general elk every year, but hunt the bow seaon first. I find it hard to justify blowing $1000 plus on a rifle that I might need to make one shot a year with.

Is a '96 Mauser strong enough for the 9.3x57?

[samwithacolt]

http://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/5964-husqvarna-sporter-93x57
Seems to have been offered comercially.

[samwithacolt]

I'm not in a position to buy anything right now anyway, have a bunch of projects on the go.
I will get something up and running for next season. Something with a large hole down the barrel!

[MarkP]

Remington M SEVEN in 350 Rem Mag nice light weight package and still available, or a NOS / used Rem 673 in 350 Rem Mag.

[UPEgger]

I use the Aimpoint H30S on my 458 Ruger #1 and 375Win Also a Ruger #1, NOT a #3. That solves my vision(76yrs) problems perfectly. Both are paper patch rifles. Carl L.

[nanuk]

Is a '96 Mauser strong enough for the 9.3x57?

I have a 9.3x62 on a Mauser 96. Factory chambered.

I'd say the 96 is lots strong, and the downside of them is the gas handling after a ruptured case

[TXGunNut]

Dunno at this point but it would likely fire a .35 or .45 boolit. Since I generally bring along a backup it would likely be both.

[happie2shoot]

the downside of them is the gas handling after a ruptured case


You can help the gas handling out by drilling some holes in the right places

[nanuk]

the downside of them is the gas handling after a ruptured case


You can help the gas handling out by drilling some holes in the right places


yup, but as mine is original, I am not ready to drill it yet. But I would be interested to learn where the best locations would be.

[waksupi]

yup, but as mine is original, I am not ready to drill it yet. But I would be interested to learn where the best locations would be.

Most are drilled in the front receiver ring at about the halfway point, right hand side, and about evenly split with the stock line.

[samwithacolt]

Well, I went and done it. My apologies to all the .45-70 fans, but the Marlins are on the heavy side to haul around, and I just can't bring myself to scope a lever gun.
I have a 9.3x62 Mauser on the way, in need of some TLC, but in shooting condition. I'm planning on buying a mold asap(there are threads here discussing them), probably 300gr gas checked.
Don't know how long a COL I can use, and I don't know if I will have it ready for this fall, but it's always fun to put together a "new" rifle package!

[Slow Elk 45/70]

45/70 is a heck of a good caliber for hunting...or what ever one might be doing...black powder cartridge match for a start.
bought my first one in 1964.. have killed every animal I have shot with it. 405-480 gr. boolits ......[smilie=s:

[samwithacolt]

I would still love to have a .45-70 cowboy someday, but the 9.3 will allow me to hunt with a big cast boolit in a scoped/bolt action platform.

[samwithacolt]

I ordered a NOE 280 gr gc mold. I might have the 9.3 up and running for my Elk in October. That'll be all my rifle tags with my cast boolits(.50 RB,.38-55, .308 and 9.3x62).

[Duckiller]

Congratulations on getting a fine rifle in a very effective caliber. Enjoy!

[enoch59]

Now what's wrong with the good ole 30.06 ? It reaches out and can kill anything that walks in North America. I too would love to have a Marlin Cowboy Limited in 45/70 but I already have Marlins in 44 and a 444. If I didn't have that 444 just drop itself into my lap I would have gone the 45/70 route. I sold my 300 WM to get it cause reloading for the 300 was BORING ! I think the 444 will do just fine on Elk and if I get the chance to shoot at 200 yds. I'll take the shot with Williams peep sights. That's what I've been practicing with all summer long. Practice, practice, practice.

[enoch59]

Congratulations samwithacolt, I hope you post some pics on your new setup. I can't get any more rifles or pistols but I can get excited for a brother who has. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you, enoch.

[samwithacolt]

I should have the rifle tomorrow, I have 2 scopes to choose from(3-9x50 Burris fullfield or Meopta 7x50) that I have laying around. Thinking of getting a laminate stock from Boyd's with Pachmyr recoil pad. Pretty excited!

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Well seeing as most elk are killed at 100 yards and less get yourself a 50-95 reproduction 1876 (mine cost $685 shipped). I did and I will send you my loading info. Mine will do 2.5 inches and usually less at 100 yards all day long with me sitting on my little posterior.
With the 50-95, 83 grains of 3F and a 347 grain Lyman 515139 boolit (they cast heavy using 40-1) you have everything you need to enjoy elf steaks. That load averages 1465 out of my rifle.
I removed the ladder sight and put an old full buckhorn sight on it. I can hit a 8 inch gong at 200 yards every shot sitting. But seeing as most elk are popped at 100 yards and less that big notch rear sight and nice small gold bead front sight will do just fine.
My next choice would be a 375 Whelen. Everything I read says it can propel 270 grainers at 2200 + fps. Once again, elk at 100 yards or less will not need more than that. The Whelen does not need a long action. You can have any 30-06 (ugly rusted bore) turned into one by sending it to JES Reboring. For about $240 returned to your little waiting hands.
So there you are. 2 inexpensive good Cast boolit calibers that will not set you back into poverty.
But then maybe I should rattle on about the caliber 41-444 in a Marlin 336... naw another day maybe.
Mike in Peru

[mstarling]

9,3x62 is a great chambering! Kills way above its apparent weight class.

I have two. Both have gone to Africa and proved themselves.

They do a wonderful job on piggies of all kinds ;-) Warthog, Bushpig, and feral hogs. Cast boolits work well!

[samwithacolt]

I am excited the 9.3x62 cartridge from what I have read about it. It seems to be pretty much able to have equal performance with cast or J bullets. While I am tempted by some of the old iron sighted classics, I have seen two friends of mine shoot a deer and accidentally hit another one behind it. One was on a deer farm, the other was in a herd of Fallow(he picked a nice broadside and hit a doe bedded behind it in the head). Heard of a guy accidentally shooting a cow elk in the bush when he had a bull tag. He spotted a bull in his binos, shouldered his rifle and shot what he thought was the same animal.
100yds in the bush, animals milling around, I like to have a scope.
I have almost everything I need to get shooting on the way, looking forward to casting some boolits and starting load development.

[Piedmont]

With the 50-95, 83 grains of 3F and a 347 grain Lyman 515139 boolit (they cast heavy using 40-1) you have everything you need to enjoy elf steaks. That load averages 1465 out of my rifle.

Mike in Peru
Mike goes on Santa's Very, Very Naughty list.

[OnHoPr]

I was at Al Siegrist's shop a couple of years ago wishing him luck before deer season and he was working on a 375/30-40 krag. it's an interesting concept, plenty of room for slow powder but not to big for the mid powders, will hold a 250 to + 300 gr boolit well, and has a nice long neck for cast boolits. The elk has bigger lungs so a bigger wound channel would be more appropriate. Anywhere's from the 358win, 35 whelan, 348 win would be nice, 356 win, 9.3, 38-55 or 375 win, 405 win, 444 marlin, 45-70, 500 S&W should work effectively. The 35's to 375 cal would have better BC's for the longer ranges, for coughers and farters. The 40's and up would put a better womp on an elk all the way out to the mid 100s yard range.

[Newtire]

Cosmiceyes--You need to take off your rubber boots and get some good glasses. It's really bad when you don't know that you don't know. Don't hide behind the eyesight crutch. I'm sixty-nine and I wear glasses and shoot open iron sights. You just need to learn how to use your eyes and make them work for you is all.

Some of our eyes just don't work that well. I got that taken care of with lasik about 5 years ago. I really can't imagine taking a shot at anything like a deer or an elk with open sights much past 200 yards though really.

[Ramjet-SS]

My Elk gun this year will be a Custom Encore 375 GNR and a 275 grain cast FP GC made with a combination of 75% plumbers lead 15% Linotype and one roll of 50-50 solder. The bullet expands and retains weight well in my hillbilly wetpac tests great accuracy out to 200 yards.

Then in the heavy timber same gun but with Reeder Custom 475 Linebaugh barrel 355 grain Hardcast WFN leaving the barrel at 1475 FPS.

[flyin'lead]

Well, I went and done it. My apologies to all the .45-70 fans, but the Marlins are on the heavy side to haul around, and I just can't bring myself to scope a lever gun.
I have a 9.3x62 Mauser on the way, in need of some TLC, but in shooting condition. I'm planning on buying a mold asap(there are threads here discussing them), probably 300gr gas checked.
Don't know how long a COL I can use, and I don't know if I will have it ready for this fall, but it's always fun to put together a "new" rifle package!

Excellent choice on a quality rifle (they don't make them like that any more!) in the perfect chambering. The 9.3x62 round will give you a good flat trajectory without having to worry about holdover or adjusting sights. And it will hit with authority. I'd suggest looking into paper patching this round, you can get a mold for the more plentiful and inexpensive .358 diameter boolits, and you can crank velocity right up without worry about leading or alloy hardness.
I bought one of the 96 husqvarnas in 9.3x57, its a lot of gun for the price, and in a VERY under rated round and action. Personally I am just getting started on it, but would like to try the paper patching for hunting loads myself.
Enjoy that classic rifle! (and put it in some nice walnut if you must restock)

[Lead Fred]

What about one of the H&R Handi Rifles in 45-70 with scope or irons? Affordable big-bore fun.

Made to shoot the 250-350gr girl boolits. The bigger ones start to hurt even at low speeds.

BTW the elk we took was two years ago. From 110 yards away the ranch dog 425 GCFN hit the left rib, put a 1/2 in hole clean though it. Blow out the lung, heart, and other lung, and shattered the right rib into splinters.
It was moving 1500fps.
At that speed it would clear 8ft of meat. Next time a tail to chest shot might be warranted

[Djones]

I vote 45-70 also, but why not use your 38-55?

[samwithacolt]

My .38-55 is 113 yrs old and I plan to run a 250 gr soft lead boolit at about 12-1300 fps out of it, using the buckhorns.
My 98 mauser 9.3x62 will be shooting a 280 gr GC boolit, hopefully well over 2200 fps, using a scope.
I have the NOE mold, gas checks, RCBS dies came today, still working on lapping a .358 lee sizing die to .368(I'm about half way there)
My cow tag is good from oct 1st, hope to be ready!

[Gunnut 45/454]

357maximum

I do the same thing to 270Win- it all gets converted to '06!! Probably half my '06 brass is converted .270!:bigsmyl2: The biggest Rifle I have caliber wise is my 454 Cassul it's not a 300 yard elk rifle 150-200 maybe. Next would be my 8x57mm with the NOE 205 gr cast load at 2100 fps I would go to 200 maybe 250 yards on Elk ! My suggestion is to go with a 180-200 gr bullet in your 303 Brit and keep it under 200 yards. In other word s get closer![smilie=s:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

:cbpour: Well if you hunt the elk in thick timber and dead falls, like I do, 45/70 RD 405 gr boolits at this time.. if I am hunting the rolling hills I have a custom 404/338 that will do the job as far as I can see to make the shot...the Marlin 45/70 is my choice 90% of the time.[smilie=1:

[samwithacolt]

Where I hunt, I can bump into them in the timber or see them across open meadows or clear fells. My 9.3 husky is light enough to carry all day and throw up for a quick shot and hopefully will be accurate to 2 or 300 with cast.
My NOE boolits come in at 292 grs with the gas check. Hoping to get 2200fps +

[roachcreek]

I lived in a very isolated area for many years and had a very good elk herd to feed my family, as a result I have killed 50 elk, 5 were with cast bullets and whether bulls or cows were always my fondest hunts.

Two were with the Lee 500 grain bullet in a Ruger #1, one with the 457125 in a Shiloh Sharps Sporting rifle and one with the NEI 430 grain bullet in a Sharps Borschardt, and one with a 338 220 grain Lee bullet in a custom FN Mauser in 338 Win.

The NEI bullet was by far the best with its big flat nose, the cow looked like she had been shot with a 300 win thru the ribs. The round nosed bullets only worked well with heart shots.

The one I shot with the .338 was by; accident really, I had the spike down just above my house and had watched it for several minutes waiting for it to die, which it eventually did I thought when it lay down its' head. I chambered a cast bullet load to finish it if needed, however, to my surprise when I got about 25 yards away it jumped up and took off. I did a Mexican heart shot and dropped it in its tracks.

Blind luck I always thought and would never use a cast .338 rn for shooting a healthy elk.